Diablo® III

The Salvation of Diablo 3: A Guide by Gosu

[quote]

For me the whole thing went like this:
Gosu: "Things are bad!"
Travis: "Indeed they are"
Gosu: "Something must be done!"
Travis: "I can't agree more"
Gosu: "So, are you going to do something based on my suggestions?"
Travis: "You kidding? Of course not! Hahahahhahaa :D:D:D Oh, and by the way, that Noxifer guy was right all along about the cooldowns and that idea of yours about the pseudo skill tree sucks."



If that's all you took from the conversation than I fully understand why you enjoy Diablo 3. Simple game for a simple mind.

Ok, Dragonslayer.
Please, tell me. What did you got from the whole conversation?

What did you understood from the post? Please, do tell.
Seriously? The only thing he agreed with Gosu about was the lack of skill diversity and the overabundance of items. Other than that, all he did was acknowledge some problems and drop a hint about a blog post.

You're excited for the proc effect of one legendary item? Proves to me that A) you've never played WD and B) you're a sycophant.

Nice name btw, really expresses you.

This guy has a hellavalot better understanding of the situation.
Posts: 93


Too many items

I cover this topic in some depth in the upcoming Item Blog that community is in the process of getting ready for release next week. I will briefly say that we agree that too many items drop and we have plans to eventually reduce the rate that players see items, while also taking measures to improve the general quality of items you do see. The end result should be fewer items that are better instead of tons of items you don’t want.


If you do THIS nicely, I will quit all other games I'm playing and come back here asap.

Hope you keep to your word.
02/28/2013 07:48 PMPosted by Drothvader
Which was pretty much how it was in d1 and d2. Isn't broke, didn't need fixing. That's alot of the problem with this game. Things that worked fine had to be changed when they worked fine in the first place and the changes only cater to a certain segment of players. I'm guessing in your case elite pro gamers.

It was completely unnecessary and really was broken.

I much prefer health globes over potions in a broken system like D2.

I'll say it again, potion spam is STUPID...
________________________________________________
MVP's are not employees of Blizzard Entertainment. We are players just like you.
Nothing I say is Official word from Blizzard, everything is of my own conjecture.
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MVP FAQ: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/4038704716#2


Also what Drothvader said.
Edited by Noxifer#2606 on 2/28/2013 7:53 PM PST


TLDR – Travis has crit Gosu with Wall of Text for 1 Billlllllllion damage.


Better TLDR = "We didn't think the AH's effect on gameplay through, and now, a year later, we're trying to counteract its effects."
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It was completely unnecessary and really was broken.

I much prefer health globes over potions in a broken system like D2.

I'll say it again, potion spam is STUPID...


Have you tried the potion system in path of exile? I like it alot better than health globes. It pretty much works on the similar mechanic... killing monsters refills health potions... where as in D3 killing monsters drops health globes. But in PoE the potions have affixes and extra abilities... can be changed and augmented through the "crafting" system in the game.

They didn't have to just "remove" all the systems that were "broken" in D2... they could have "improved" them.
02/28/2013 06:58 PMPosted by Travis Day
Your system idea for Nephalem Power Stat is basically a roundabout way of suggesting we re-implement the Diablo 2 skill system.


I don't feel like that's what he was saying. The point system he was talking about sounded more like supplemental bonuses to stats you feel you might be lacking in. I had to sacrifice a decent amount of DMG and a little CC just to get a Chantodo's Force with APOC. I would have much rather got the APOC from a skill tree. I would put money on 90% of D3 players being okay with the idea of some sort of Rune or Skill Tree system.. btw.

What if the skill tree only provided mild changes to the game with the Trifecta and main stats, and much bigger changes for the other"useless" ones? For ex// A maxed out branch for CC would only provide a 2.5% bonus, where as a maxed out Life Regen/ sec would provide 4000 additional life/ sec. Another ex// a branch in IAS would only provide a max of a 4% bonus, where as a maxed out branch in Thorns would provide 60% DMG to attacker.

Just an idea.
Edited by BBopMcJiggy#1307 on 2/28/2013 7:59 PM PST
Thank you Travis for an awsome post.
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02/28/2013 06:58 PMPosted by Travis Day
I cover this topic in some depth in the upcoming Item Blog that community is in the process of getting ready for release next week. I will briefly say that we agree that too many items drop and we have plans to eventually reduce the rate that players see items, while also taking measures to improve the general quality of items you do see. The end result should be fewer items that are better instead of tons of items you don’t want.

I said this in a video I made back in June... we need LESS items but HIGHER quality! I'm actually quite elated that this is being noticed as an issue!

However, keep in mind you may want to increase how many crafting materials you get from salvaging to compensate for the loss of items. Hopefully that is addressed as well.

02/28/2013 06:58 PMPosted by Travis Day
The “problem” with trifecta items can’t be discussed without also pointing out that it is only a problem because the AH makes obtaining these items so easy. On a basic level, I have no problem with items existing that players highly desire, but when it is a forgone conclusion that you will have those items then we have problems. If the auction house never existed, players wouldn’t be upset that trifecta exists, they would be upset that they haven’t been lucky enough to find their own trifecta items. To summarize, I think the right solution to this problem isn’t cutting trifecta items from the game, but rather it’s about getting to a point where you want more things than you can fit on an item.

Exactly right, the "Trifecta problem" exists because of the lack of a myriad of desirable stats. I am very happy to see this is recognized as a real issue as well. ^.^

02/28/2013 06:58 PMPosted by Travis Day
I’ll just say that we agree and we want Legendary items to feel game changing.

YES! Unique based on the fact that they do something no other item can do! Not because they're the only belt that can roll IAS...

02/28/2013 06:58 PMPosted by Travis Day
Whenever we talk about what the fantasy of Diablo is and what we want the core gameplay to be, never do we say “we want players to farm gold and go buy items off the auction house”. The AH definitely has made an impact on Diablo 3 and we talk about it constantly, but our conversations are usually in the context of “how can we get players to find their own loot instead of just buying it”. The new crafting recipes and Demonic Essences were added to provide a little bit of this gameplay but we have a lot of ideas for the long term about how we want to go about addressing this. At the end of the day, it is our intention that players are able to find their own items, because we feel the game is just more fun that way. There are several reason why it might not feel that way right now. One is the inherent randomness of our loot system. Another is the fact that the AH completely removes all friction between player trades. And another is when players DO find items they should be excited about, they are often disappointed because this items are not very good. All of these are very important and we hope to address them over time.

I'm very interested to see how this is addressed. One of the solutions would be to find a way to incentivize items being removed from the economy so that you can actually buff item quality significantly.

I really don't see how this can be done without BoA / BoE / BoP. Who knows, there might be some imaginative and creative way to go about this.
________________________________________________
MVP's are not employees of Blizzard Entertainment. We are players just like you.
Nothing I say is Official word from Blizzard, everything is of my own conjecture.
I don't have moderation powers and I am not a Blizzard Representative.
MVP FAQ: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/4038704716#2
Posts: 4,755
1: Challenge. I'll take a look at the other parts later.

Belial was a great encounter because it forced you to pay attention and take very precise click-focused actions in order to succeed. This kind of challenge is almost completely non-existent in the game at this point.

So what is the solution? Unfortunately it isn’t a quick fix and I don’t think it will help any to go into a long list of ideas. To put it simply, the game needs more moments of challenge that aren’t simply based on how much HP a monster has or how much damage it does. Use environmental hazards that deal a percentage of non-mitigatable damage to your health pool, give monsters abilities that are VERY obvious but will take you down to 1hp or outright kill you if you’re being neglegent, have monsters that use timers in interesting ways (how about a demon that summons pulsating orbs that explode into zig-zagging rays of instant death that must be avoided if you don’t kill the orb before it goes off).

These are the kind of challenges that can’t simply be negated with gear. They don’t need to be overly difficult, but they could certainly serve to force players to think and act instead of overcoming the obstacle with gold/money. Gear should ALWAYS make things easier, but I definitely don’t believe that it should allow you to avoid every single challenge the game throws at you.

As it stands now, the majority of monster abilities in D3 are nearly impossible to avoid with any consistency. This style of damage dealing forces players into figuring out ways to permanently avoid the challenge instead of overcoming it in a fun way. Mortars, molten, electric, plagued…most people just stand in all this stuff because it’s either too difficult or too time consuming/inefficient to avoid. Also, a truly challenging obstacle needs to grant players with rewards that reflect said difficulty. These challenges aren’t any fun if they present themselves in the game without rest. Spread them out and make them different, interesting and varied, while rewarding players accordingly.

As a side note, certain challenges introduced into the game need to be made easier/more fun when playing with a group of players, this is the kind of thing that helps to incentivize group play. It’s fun to overcome challenges with friends, the current game does not facilitate this outside of Uber Bosses.

Give us repeatable quests that require large amounts of demonic essences and other resources to activate. These quests could involve challenges that are almost impossible by yourself but get significantly easier with more players. They could involve things like multiple spawn points where something needs to be protected. You can try covering them all by yourself and it’s certainly possible, but how much more fun would it be to get a team for that kind of thing? YOU COVER TOP SPAWN, I GOT BOTTOM, JERRY CATCHES THE LEAKS, OH NO, JERRY’S DOWN, LAY SOME TRAPS AND GO REZ HIS A**! Have the reward be a guaranteed legendary/set piece and a pile higher tier’d gems. Now ask yourself, is a challenge like that incentive to play? More on this specific topic near the end of this post.


VERSUS:

02/28/2013 06:58 PMPosted by Travis Day
When you present players with difficult content they will find a way to overcome it which usually means using only the most powerful items and abilities. The unfortunate side effect is it also drives players away from the play styles they feel are “just fun”. We have taken steps to improve this problem a number of ways; reducing the overall difficulty of Inferno, improving the potency of underused skills to allow players more diversity in their gameplay, and introducing Monster Power to allow players to set the game to a level which they feel is enjoyable. I think the right way to introduce challenge is to make it optional, for example having difficult content for the players that enjoy it without penalizing the players who prefer a more relaxed gameplay experience.


First quote is talking about challenge when it comes to certain moves, events, perhaps challenge dungeons and special attacks which can't be overcome by using gold and getting the best possible gear to negate everything. Challenge that isn't just health and initial damage.

Second post.... is talking about the complete opposite: health and initial damage aka overall difficulty. I'll give Travis Day a thumbs up for adding "optional" to the statement which I completely agree with.

Instead of changing everything in the game that already exists I would suggest adding challenge dungeons or completely different areas which are DESIGNED with challenge in mind. Add unique purple mini bosses with different special attacks like: continuous Frozen in which the ice bombs always come up but more slowly. Desecrator in which 3 are spawned at the same time. Continous mortar but slower overall speeds. Arcane Sentries which spawn 3 at a time but are designed to be spaced out and won't overlap each other. Teleport/illusionist in which after illusionist is done they will all teleport. Avenger in which every 1/4 of health taken away enrages the monster more. Of course new special attacks would be awesome as well but obviously would take more time to implement.

To access these dungeons/areas players would have to acquire specific items (keys, maps, portals, etc...). These items would drop from every enemy in the game with appropriate drops rates (trash mobs being smaller chance, higher health mobs slightly higher, elites and mini bosses more so and then bosses finished with ubers. Of course Monster Power would also effect drop chances equally.

It would also be neat to take pre existing models of bosses and mini bosses and scale them appropriately and add them as special mob types (like take Jondar and create Necromancers, Izual scaled down for Ice Demons, Belial stage 2 as Plague Bringers, Skeleton King slightly scaled down as a Undead Commanders *surrounded by assorted skeletal enemies*, and so on).

Special Events: Take an item to an already existing area in the game (like take a demon's skull to the middle of the Forsaken Cemetery (in that little enclosure that is covered). Right clicking the item would spawn several waves of enemies appropriate to the area (so undead/skeletons) with elites packs scattered among the waves followed by a Mini boss (or a pair of mini bosses "Ooooh!!!") which would have their own special attacks, elite affixes and escorted by normal trash mobs and perhaps an elite pack for extra awesomeness.

These items will be drop like the challenge dungeons/areas items in which they can be dropped by all enemies in the pre existing game.

Just a few ideas on what I'd see as a "challenge".

Oh and another idea: challenge dungeons that ignore MP in which it would tell you the difficulty and danger level on the name of the dungeon. Just a thought.
Edited by DeMasked#1233 on 2/28/2013 8:02 PM PST
+1 OP
02/28/2013 06:58 PMPosted by Travis Day
I think many people would agree that, at launch, the game was too challenging.


I wouldn't agree with this. The challenges in inferno themselves were fine. I just think it was too hard to find the items you needed to overcome those challenges. Unless you went on the AH of course. :P

02/28/2013 06:58 PMPosted by Travis Day
Whether or not that idea makes the final cut is hard to say, but we want to really push the boundaries as much as we can, so legendary items become things that players can get really excited about.


Love this.

02/28/2013 06:58 PMPosted by Travis Day
The end result should be fewer items that are better instead of tons of items you don’t want.


+1,000,000 :D

02/28/2013 06:58 PMPosted by Travis Day
“how can we get players to find their own loot instead of just buying it”


Create a non-AH/RMAH mode with better RNG to make up for not having those things. There will be 4 modes to play in. AH-Softcore. AH-Hardcore. Non-AH-Softcore. Non-AH-Hardcore. I realize this will lose you some RMAH sales.

02/28/2013 06:58 PMPosted by Travis Day
We have discussed ideas such as letting players have some control over what stats will appear on the item they are crafting, using the crafting system to allow players to reroll the values of affixes an item already has, etc.


It's time to stop discussing this, and just do it. ;)

02/28/2013 06:58 PMPosted by Travis Day
We want it to be easier for players to find other like-minded people to play with and this is a topic we are actively trying to improve in the near future.


Yay!

02/28/2013 06:58 PMPosted by Travis Day
TLDR – Travis has crit Gosu with Wall of Text for 1 Billlllllllion damage.


I lol'd. But seriously Travis, thank you for this. I can see just from reading this that you actually play the game, enjoy it, and also want to improve it. And it's nice to see that, because you play, you understand many of the frustrations we have. This sounds overdramatic, but this one post completely restored my faith in this game and the people developing it.

*standing ovation*
02/28/2013 07:54 PMPosted by Ðragonslayer
Globes are good for consoles. I like them to but prefer potions. Potions worked extremely well in Diablo. It wasn't broke and didn't need fixing. You may think it was stupid but guess what. Diablo 2:lod was played for 12+ years by many of us even with that "stupid" mechanic. D3 is abandonware at this point.

The globes got nothing to do with consoles. Stop being an idiot...

Diablo2 was by no means successful, because of it's potion system, it was successful, because there wasn't a better game at the time.
That by no means changes the fact, that the potion spam system was extremely lame and stupid.
Spamming potions is not a resource management, no real gameplay.

Have you tried the potion system in path of exile? I like it alot better than health globes. It pretty much works on the similar mechanic... killing monsters refills health potions... where as in D3 killing monsters drops health globes. But in PoE the potions have affixes and extra abilities... can be changed and augmented through the "crafting" system in the game.

They didn't have to just "remove" all the systems that were "broken" in D2... they could have "improved" them.

Not the Pile of Excre****s again...
A game with fundamentally broken engine, which reminds me more of the wooden Titan Quest than of Diablo2. The game is worse than Diablo2 and I don't see how the game "improves" upon anything, really.
Deleted
Edited by HellKitsune#2562 on 2/28/2013 9:07 PM PST
Posts: 4,755
Blizzard: Request for higher post limit on this thread if that would be possible.
Edited by DeMasked#1233 on 2/28/2013 8:07 PM PST
Posted by Travis Day
I think many people would agree that, at launch, the game was too challenging.


I don't think it was necessarily challenging vs. cheap game mechanics. Players were stuck with cool downs for escape/counter cc abilities while elites had endless spam. It was a horrible implementation of difficulty more so than the game being challenging.
Edited by Menacetech#1216 on 2/28/2013 9:14 PM PST
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