Diablo® III

The Salvation of Diablo 3: A Guide by Gosu

i would love to read blizzards responce
I want to know when server will be back available to play.
Posts: 1,064
View profile
Character Customization

Your system idea for Nephalem Power Stat is basically a roundabout way of suggesting we re-implement the Diablo 2 skill system. The old skill system was fun, back in the day, but I think it’s honestly dated in today’s landscape. People fondly remember making tons of characters and trying out different builds, and while I have a lot of those same fond memories, I also remember that usually the end result of my time investment in my “cool new character” was complete and utter disappointment.
Today the availability of web sites or posts about character builds would mostly overshadow any of that old character rerolling. You would read a post saying someone else tried the build that you had imagined would be amazing, only to find out it was awful, or you would find out it was great and build it also. The skill system today allows people the flexibility to try out things they enjoy without penalizing players who want to experiment with new ideas. The only difference is if their idea doesn’t pan out, you didn’t waste hours leveling a bad character.


Responses like this are just terrible, and quite frankly, a cop out.

First off, your predecessor made this thing called respec, so "doing it all for nothing" is as illegitimate as a response can be. And before anyone says, "oh but that destroys a players incentive to create a new character"...and your incentive to make one now is...?

Second, this so called "dated" model is the one that WoW embraced and gave them the wealth, and most of employees the jobs, that they enjoy today. And if something is dated but works, you expand on it, you dont flush it down the toilet and replace it with the Crap left over, ie the non-existant customization that made this game the failure that it is today....

...Get your house in order.
Edited by RaitarQuelan#1979 on 3/2/2013 3:42 AM PST
We are all here cause sever down...mmmm...
Woha my head is smoking ! Took me almost 2 hours to read the entire post. But damn it was a good read. So Blizzard here you have another desperate fan who shows you to fix some of the big mistakes of Diablo 3. Time to deliver !
03/01/2013 11:53 PMPosted by Pawo
d3 is fine.

if that would be true this discussion would not have already reached page 42

at this point no one can really argue that this game HAS issues. Even if you like the game a lot one should agree that it has room for improvements.
All this would be great, but its too complication for console,

Most of your suggestiuons just dont fit the console and this is a console game whether we like it or not :(

Nearly everything bad in this game stems from bad itemization which is because of lack of Decent skills talents etc and its almost certainly because this is a console game not a pc game ie dumbed down to the max.

The choice in type of pvp, even the automatic and not list view of Games to join with names etc is because of console in mind.

So nothing will ever change.
02/28/2013 06:58 PMPosted by Travis Day
another suggestion is to group all the good affixes into a shared category so that they can’t all roll on the same item.


I think that's a terrible idea as it would be even harder for us to gear up for the higher MPs and the game is no fun when you feel like you're constantly struggling along. A suggestion would be to let flat damage roll on gloves like it does on rings and amulets, that could be a viable alternative to crit damage since crit chance and attack speed are also used to proc effects.

02/28/2013 06:58 PMPosted by Travis Day
The skill system today allows people the flexibility to try out things they enjoy without penalizing players who want to experiment with new ideas. The only difference is if their idea doesn’t pan out, you didn’t waste hours leveling a bad character.


Or alternatively you could have a D2 style skill tree with skill points etc but also have the ability to freely and infinitely re-spec your skill points (maybe make it so when you re-spec your skill points you lose Nephalem Valor similar to how you lose NV when you change your skills). How is this different from the current system with runes? Well in D2 the skill points invested in the skills largely determined the damage of those skills including any synergy bonus and relied very little on items with the exception of things like +1 to all skills etc (especially in the case of spell casters like the sorceress and necromancer). With the current rune system it relies way to heavily on your weapon damage.

Some other thoughts I know with magic find item quality is checked in the following order:
Legendary
6-affix rare
5-affix rare
4-affix rare
2-affix rare
1-affix rare
magic item
and if all else fails it rolls a white.

but in all honesty who uses whites or even blue magic items nowadays?
My suggestion would be this:
Legendary
6-affix rare
5-affix rare
4-affix rare
2-affix rare
1-affix rare
gold pile

So in other words if the item fails to roll even a 1-affix rare, instead of rolling a blue or white item it would simply roll a gold pile since the vendor is all that blue and white items are good for. So instead of the control for item rolls being white items it would simply be gold.

The OP's post was so long that I only managed to scan through some of it. My above suggestion of rolling gold instead of blue and white items was in response to him saying, "Too many whites, too many blues."
I'm glad SOMEONE at blizzard responded to this thread, but all I read is promises promises...until I see these implemented in game forgive me "if I don't shake hands".

I can only speak for myself, but as bad as build diversity is especially on higher MP's...I think that ITEMIZATION and CRAFTING need to be fixed ASAP.

It's not hard, blizzard is just taking their sweet time with it, as multiple people have pointed out already the poor itemization, item fix RNG, item rolls, crafting system in general is all BY DESIGN...with the AH in mind.

You can bury your head in the sand but it's true...been here since launch, seen an endless amount of 99% item rolls and crafted items that I wouldn't have used back when my 10K DPS barb first got to inferno soon after game came out.

Until the BoA crafting system I had NEVER found an upgrade of my own not once:)

Why for the life of me is blizzard afraid of GOOD LOOT actually or GOOD CRAFTING - Check AH.
A+ for effort! Good Read
Agree with alot, not with some.
Edited by dLux#2874 on 3/2/2013 4:32 PM PST
Posts: 5,392
03/02/2013 03:41 AMPosted by RaitarQuelan
Responses like this are just terrible, and quite frankly, a cop out.

No it is not. It's right on the money. Choosing points or mini skill trees as in the past. We should move on. WoW moved on in Panda. D3 moved on. It's best not to move back into the past.

I like the principle of the idea, it just needs to be implemented in a different way.
Edited by the8thark#1241 on 3/2/2013 7:07 AM PST
03/02/2013 07:06 AMPosted by theeighthark
Responses like this are just terrible, and quite frankly, a cop out.

No it is not. It's right on the money. Choosing points or mini skill trees as in the past. We should move on. WoW moved on in Panda. D3 moved on. It's best not to move back into the past.

I like the principle of the idea, it just needs to be implemented in a different way.

And yet the highest rated games in the genre all have skill trees...
A good challenge of current Diablo 3 is the DPS searching. Going to reach 100k+ DPS is a real challenge. For it we need to check the AH, make some gold rush, make some set or legendary choice, take some new items, be patient, sell them in the AH at right price, buy new better items, make gold rushs... it is exciting to test the new damages of our characters, to explode monsters in one punch.

The next challenge is to reach 200k+ DPS.
Edited by obiwan#2455 on 3/2/2013 7:27 AM PST
Hey Travis, thanks a lot for taking the time to update the community on what the developers' thought processes are for fixing some of the issues Diablo III has. It is much appreciated. Below, I have posted some of my thoughts on what you've said. Much of it I agree with, but there were a couple points that stood out to me.

02/28/2013 06:58 PMPosted by Travis Day
I think a better approach to this issue is to introduce more affixes that players are interested in, so there is a sense of tension over what the six affixes are on your “ideal gear”.


I think a lot of this issue stems from how the D3 affix system works. On gloves, there are more than 6 desirable affixes, but there are an obvious 6ish affixes that would be at the top of most people's hierarchies. Say my ideal gloves would have crit chance, crit damage, attack speed, stat+vit, all resistance, stat (in that order). Introducing new desirable affixes won't really solve the problem of dethroning trifecta. People will always replace the worst of the 6 affixes with a new one. Either those affixes will be worse than CC/CD/IAS, and they will replace stat/resistance/vit, or they will be more desirable and become the new trifecta. Note, there would have to be at least 4 of them to turn ideal gloves from trifecta to bifecta and 6 to completely erase those stats. This would just lead to players being in the same situation now, where gloves have to have XYZ affixes to be valuable.

Placing affixes in "buckets" wouldn't help either, since players generally have a clear hierarchy of which affixes they consider better than others. So all it would achieve is making players shoot for the best affix in each bucket, rather than adding gear diversity. As the item system currently stands, it's basically a single huge bucket from which we can pick 6 affixes. Changing it to 3 buckets with 2 affixes each or 6 buckets with 1 affix each doesn't solve the problem; It just changes the form.

02/28/2013 06:58 PMPosted by Travis Day
There are several reason why it might not feel that way right now. One is the inherent randomness of our loot system. Another is the fact that the AH completely removes all friction between player trades.


Even though a lot of people complain that loot is "bad", I don't really think that is the core issue. There was a time when a blue 600 DPS weapon without stats was reasonable to farm pre-nerf inferno with, and an 800 DPS weapon with your main stat was considered good. Now, both of those are vendor trash. The only gear that is truly worthless are the pieces that are useless even to a fresh level 60 that just graduated from hell mode (which is probably still like 90% of drops). Inferno-viable gear is available to everyone, especially thanks to the nerf and addition of MP0. The problem I see is that the mechanics and randomness of the loot system insures that every player will, without a doubt, hit a wall in progression (gearing up). The new BoA crafting is a nice addition to the game, but it's still only a temporary measure.

Let me offer an extreme example to illustrate why. Say the crafting costs are reduced to only the few seconds it takes to craft (no gold, no mats, no essences). If I'm fresh into inferno, it might only 10 crafts (all of these numbers will be "on average) to upgrade my amulet. My next upgrade might right require 100 crafts, then 1000, etc. Eventually I will hit some point where it's not even worth the 5s it takes to craft, whether it be at the 1m mark or 1b mark or whatever. The same problem applies to found items too. When I have an item in the Xth percentile of gear, the probability of me obtaining an upgrade scales down proportionally to (100-X)/100. Every player will necessarily hit some X where their progression just hits a complete wall and they feel their time is better spent elsewhere (often another game). So even if all armor slots rolled main stat, vit, all resist, or all rings/amulets/gloves rolled DPS stats, we'd still run into this issue months down the road. The difference would be that new players would immediately stomp inferno once they found a few pieces of gear.

Another note I'd like to add: Even though there are a ton of complaints about the existence of the AH on the forums, there are many players that are happy with it. I, for one, would not bother playing a game where I had to go back to the archaic system of trade and barter that D2 offered. That was tolerable a decade ago, but games have evolved since then. I'm sure there are other players that would agree with me. The most vocal are usually the most dissatisfied, but they are also often (not always) a minority. This isn't to say that those opinions should be ignored. Many of the best suggestions have come from a vocal minority. I just ask that you remember there are some players that enjoy using the AH to gear up.
Edited by Dazarath#1968 on 3/2/2013 7:36 AM PST
Posts: 5,392
03/02/2013 07:19 AMPosted by steveman0

No it is not. It's right on the money. Choosing points or mini skill trees as in the past. We should move on. WoW moved on in Panda. D3 moved on. It's best not to move back into the past.

I like the principle of the idea, it just needs to be implemented in a different way.

And yet the highest rated games in the genre all have skill trees...


Game ratings equal game popularity and not game quality. Some of the best games out there have had low rating scores.

Also this we are talking the future. Not being stuck in the present or the past. This relates to gaming as the public don't know what game features they will love tomorrow. You have to go out on a limb develop something and hope for the best. The only thing we do know is if you do nothing and stay the same, it will eventually get stale and boring. Diablo 3 and Blizzard are trying to push things to new and interesting heights. And not all of it will be perceived well at the time. But look back on it and people will be glad it happened.

Sure that's slightly off topic, but my point is, skill trees are so yesterday. Time to move on to bigger and better things. Even if the game reviewing world are not willing to accept it. And give it the high scores it deserves.

And 10+ million sales > any random game reviewer's game rating score. Add in WoW's sales too and the people still playing Panda with no skill trees.
This topic has reached its post limit. You may no longer post or reply to posts for this topic.

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)
Submit Cancel

Reported!

[Close]