Diablo® III

The Salvation of Diablo 3: A Guide by Gosu

03/02/2013 04:01 AMPosted by StoneOld
@ Astraios: How in the heck to you get 38K Elite kills with 95K DPS and 50K life?


What on earth are you doing drawing a comparison here?

FWIW, when I personally passed 38k elite kills I was a full tank build rocking my highest dps at the time of a whopping 10k.
Posts: 5,375
@ Noxifer

First, upon braking down, Gosu's idea about removing class specific affixes is not bad at all and it's got hellavalot more to do with itemization, than it does with a "roundabout way of re-implementong the Diablo 2 skill system". I think that both me and the Game designer misunderstood Gosu's idea (which is partially our fault, but partially Gosu's fault as well, considering that again, both me and the dev failed to understand what he was saying initially)... or may be that's my interpretation, I don't know.

I agree. His idea of collating all the redundant affixes into less but more useful ones is a good idea. And actually I am all for it. I just felt that having a skill free or point options for this new "mastery skill" . . . I'm not so sure about it. It's in WoW and it works well there. So to me having a skill that works for all classes is good. How you use this skill, if it's points for a choose your own tree style or each class has a fixed "mastery" skill like in WoW, that's my main issue. How this is implemented. It needs to be well and a mini skill tree I feel is not the best idea.

My question is how would you feel about the system the way I described it.

I don't know. And that's the question. At the moment I see only 2 ways to impliment the system. NP or mastery, 2 different names for the same thing. I just used mastery cause that's what WoW uses.

1. Your way with + NP points. So you can choose what class specific ability you want.
2. WoW style where you have + NP points (or mastery). But what MP points do is set for each class. Like each NP point has 5 uses. One for each class. If you don't like what NP does for your class you don't stack it.

I haven't seem a 3rd way been described to implement this yet. Not that a 3rd way does not exist, I just have not seen it yet. And I feel each way has pros and cons.

Your way gives the player lots of customisation. They can choose exactly what they want. And can make builds how they see fit. The downside is you don't want stats to directly replicate character passives/skills. . . or do we? Take your + hatred regen example. We already have a plus hatred regen skill, the bat. If you're ok with saying some of the mastery options can be in addition to skills/passives that do the same thing then sure. But if you want all of the mastery options to be different to what the character already has then that'd be tougher.

The WoW way does have less options. It makes the mastery more like a class specific affix. Makes it feel more like an affix. You can tailor each one of the 5 masteries (one for each class) to be unique from what they already have skill/passive wise. The downside is there's only one per class. So if it does not fit your build or you don't like it, then you simply don't stack it.

In both cases you can use that chest on any class. The difference is do you either get a point to choose your own class specific bonus or you have one specific class bonus given to you.

And I think neither option of 1 or 2 is perfect. The first gives many options but also adds lots of complexity and skill points (of a sort) back into the game. The 2nd makes it feel like one affix and is pretty simple to add into the game, but lacks the customisation the first has.

Wait . . . I just had an idea. That sort of combines options 1 and 2. You could have:

A. each mastery affix on an item is one point. And you can use the points to choose an ability like you said. But each ability has only one point to add to it. So the mastery affix on 2 different items would equal two different options chosen. That's remove the whole skill tree issue.
B. Each mastery affix you have equals one more passive skill choice. So with 2 mastery affixes you now have 5 passives to choose from.

Just some random ideas I had.

That said, Gosu's suggestion's got nothing to do with that. He didn't suggest re-leveling the same character over and over again. What he did suggest was a fix, which was directed towards improving the itemization, while adding some very minor form of customization (which is good), and from what I understood he suggested the points to be refundable (which is also good, since I don't wanna re-level my character hundred times).

I agree. It has nothing to to with re-levelling characters. The points would be refundable, and have a CD of 30 seconds of so like changing skills has. And I agree with the idea of his fix. I think a mastery skill is a great idea. It's just how his mastery idea will be implemented in game is the question.

Do you think WoW is a good place right now? Because I most certainly don't.Do you think Diablo should follow in WoW's footsteps? Because I most certainly don't.Not everything in the past is necessarily bad. I would argue that many things in the past were better and it's not just the nostalgia talking.


I think WoW is at a cross roads now. Wrath I feel got it right in terms of game play. Removed all the too complex statistics and choices but left enough to make you feel that you still had enough choice. A tough balance that Wrath did well. Wrath skill trees were another issue. There was little choice for customisation there. Cata to me was a complete mess. I feel it was the patch WoW needed to have to move on, and thankfully it did. And Panda is better. But to me I see Cata and post as WoW 2.0. In a way it's almost a new game, so many differences. Almost not the same game as pre cata.

Do you think Diablo should follow in WoW's footsteps?
Entirely? No. But Diablo 3 can learn from WoW and from D1/D2. Many things are better in the past. I will be one of the first people to say there are aspects of D2 that are way better then D3. The gem/jewel system for one. The developers need to work out what was dome better in the past and work out how to implement it into D3. Sometimes a straight copy/paste into D3 won't work. The old ideas might need a tweak before they can enter the D3 world.
I think WOW and Diablo 3 are two different games, like Starcraft 2 and WOW, and Starcraft 2 and Diablo 3. But WOW fanboys can't write a post without speak about their game.
Edited by obiwan#2455 on 3/2/2013 9:59 AM PST
I got frightening thougth about this, blizzard read this and pack it as expansion set.
Posts: 5,375
03/02/2013 09:58 AMPosted by obiwan
I think WOW and Diablo 3 are two different games, like Starcraft 2 and WOW, and Starcraft 2 and Diablo 3. But WOW fanboys can't write a post without speak about their game.

They are different games. But all 3 games can learn from each other to better themselves.
Deleted by Chopu.
Edited by Chopu#1897 on 3/2/2013 11:02 AM PST
03/02/2013 09:44 AMPosted by Noxifer
And what makes you think so within the context of the Blizzard games? Sure you can compare the WoW content patches, which keep the players paying their subscription fee to a form of DLC, but that by no means make the expansions a thing of the past. WoW has had like like four expansions and it will have at least one more.


This isnt WoW.

03/02/2013 09:44 AMPosted by Noxifer
First, the comment I made in regards to the Diablo lore is not something I invented, it's actually something I herd from Blizzard, though I am not sure about the source or the context (I think it was discussed on one of the recent BlizzCons or may be on the old forums, I truly don't remember.


The Diablo lore was something that had always been just tacked on, maybe even at the last second, like it should be.. thats why it now feels like its being shoved down your throat.

03/02/2013 09:44 AMPosted by Noxifer
More like they should focus their work on inventing incentives, which should keep the players playing.


Only way thats going to happen is if they bring back battlenet 1.0
Posts: 5,375
03/02/2013 10:31 AMPosted by familia

They are different games. But all 3 games can learn from each other to better themselves.


He's under the impression that his opinion matters. Except Blizzard has absolute creative control and he's just some nerd who buys their games.

Our opinions do matter. Well to the point that mass QQ does get heard. NV, MP (with relation to MF/GF) are two examples of Blizzard taking cues from the consensus of the players to create things in game.
I tried to "Like" your post but it comes up "error"...maybe you maxed out?

Your post is a refreshing change to all the whiny, childish rants that we constantly see on this forum. Kids, learn a lesson from this guy: He sees a problem and constructively comes up with a solution vice crying and pouting and throwing a temper tantrum. You lead by example, Sir, well done!

I found your ideas interesting and definitely something that the devs should consider BUT you did fail to do one thing. You need to put some sort of disclosure on your work to allow Blizzard to use any or all of your ideas without any profit on your part. Hell, they would be smart to hire you but they can't use your ideas until you state that they are free and open to the public. I'm sure the lawyers would know exactly what needs to be done.

I may not agree with everything you proposed but very well done!
Anyway… I have several general suggestions on how to improve the martial arts feeling of the Monk Class as well as a couple more specific suggestions/ideas. There was actually a VERY long and well-written thread detailing almost every Monk skill and rune and how to fix them. Unfortunately, I read it a couple months ago and I have no idea how to find it again.


Sounds like Druin's thread from the monk forums (esp. considering Gosu has a deleted post in it).

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/6607333164?page=1
You know better than anyone that there were too many mistakes and flaws on games CORE MECHANICS and DESIGN.

One of them is the lack of LADDER ... As long as you dont implement this feature in Diablo 3 DONT EXPECT 1 in a million to revive diablo 3.

And what makes me even more worried is that you dont even consider it as an option in the future. You never talk about it ...

With the announcement of console port i can tell why you dont even consider it but still ... you really need to ...

ladder is a terrible system, whoever wants it in d3 is better off without playing it.


Explain why because i got 100 strong reasons why i think is the best system ever for this kind of games.

I think you wont be able to counter but give it a try , im eager to hear you.

Oh and something else ... Whoever doesnt want LADDER in D3 probably he doesnt even have a clue what is ladder all about.period
Edited by Azatis#2345 on 3/2/2013 12:10 PM PST
So... now I know that using Google Translate to post on a foreign-language forum is a really bad idea, lol.

Yes, I am writing a translator and do not know how he'll pepevel. I do not know English
Blizzard has done so knowingly and after the departure of Jay Wilson. before they release a lot of that was removed. To make more money at auction for real money.

Of course, this strategy of patch 1.05 and was ready to release the game. Understand why this happened?? Because in diablo 2 pirates made auction for real money and that's how it all began.

As I understand Jay Wilson wanted to make a good game and that there would be a lot of a lot of things had been good droa things and you at least know that the release had to be purple gems and crystal? They also removed the nest craft and more

They know that many people are not happy, and Jay Wilson. it is understood that this will happen, but the new director blew it, he made a different approach to business. They removed all and gave obetki to themselves to fill their pockets of money.

Very interesting, who buys a supplement after such treatment with the players??
Take not a happy player and he is not happy with the game, he does not get good things from the game and that he would answer, No, I do not buy a supplement, and why? No, no thank you

Well I was very surprised if the addition will sell the same quantities, but to judge right now, and to estimate how many players are not happy. Yeah right now, very few people playing this game. That
figure could be four million
02/28/2013 06:58 PMPosted by Travis Day
Today the availability of web sites or posts about character builds would mostly overshadow any of that old character rerolling. You would read a post saying someone else tried the build that you had imagined would be amazing, only to find out it was awful, or you would find out it was great and build it also. The skill system today allows people the flexibility to try out things they enjoy without penalizing players who want to experiment with new ideas. The only difference is if their idea doesn’t pan out, you didn’t waste hours leveling a bad character.


Can you or other people please give us an explanation why stats auto-distribution system was chosen? Me and most people who played with me in D2, dont understand why it was announced? Why did you kill diversity of builds? why did you remove items str/dex requirements? Why we cannot create uniq char through stats customization? This the pain for old school arpg players.
Edited by Alec#2540 on 3/2/2013 1:41 PM PST
Today the availability of web sites or posts about character builds would mostly overshadow any of that old character rerolling. You would read a post saying someone else tried the build that you had imagined would be amazing, only to find out it was awful, or you would find out it was great and build it also. The skill system today allows people the flexibility to try out things they enjoy without penalizing players who want to experiment with new ideas. The only difference is if their idea doesn’t pan out, you didn’t waste hours leveling a bad character.


Can you or other people please give us an explanation why stats auto-distribution system was chosen? Me and most people who played with me in D2, dont understand why it was announced? Why did you kill diversity of builds? why did you remove items str/dex requirements? Why we cannot create uniq char through stats customization? This the pain for old school arpg players.


Way easier to balance , thats the only reason.

Im against that but ... Console version , makes sense imho for many things including how many skills in total you can use , linear maps , simplified skill trees ,simplified skill changes,no ladder , no pvp , 4 players only co-op and yeah no stat allocation plus so many other things... Everything makes a bit more sense imho.
Edited by Azatis#2345 on 3/2/2013 2:14 PM PST
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