Diablo® III

The Salvation of Diablo 3: A Guide by Gosu

+1

Amazing post. I would play this version of d3 for years to come!

Now only to hope that blizzard are actually thinking along the same lines and do something in this direction.


my oath, as of today im taking a break. i got zero motivation now.

None of my mates play that much i got almost no gold now because AH is sterile 90% of the time.

Absolutely getting no options to change my builds and ive tried many many builds but because its an efficiency game with .1% reward its pointless with almost no upgrade path for my barb.

Ill pop back if 1.8.0 is showing better progress on items. ive been using the same weapons for 400 hours.
Items are overpopulated, pure and simple. Too many whites, too many blues, too many rares, yet still not enough legendaries. No one with any sensibilities picks up ANY equippable items other than rare 1h weapons, gloves, pants, rings, ammies and shoulders. That is what, 1% of the total item pool? People are asking for an “ID all” button because everyone is sick of ID’ing 50 items every 10 minutes. Imagine how many they’d have to ID if they picked up more than just the items I listed above.

I don't have the time or the will to reply to everything you posted.. In general I think your wrong. But I thought I would focus on your above post.

Here is the problem with your logic. We had all those same items and even more in D2 yet I found finding items much better in D2.

There are a lot of problems with items or loot if you will. 1 of which is the BiS.. What you say? am I nuts?? nope.. BiS is to much Best and frankly it devalues everything else. That is not the entire problem but it is a large part of it. Next I'd say there are simply to few legendaries. For example Vile wards are your only lvl 60 legendary choice that you can actually find. There death mantle but they are so bad in comparison to Vile wards that Wards are the choice and everything else short of a few rares are worthless. BiS is ok but the best part should only be slightly better.

That is not everything but it is just small part of it.
+1

In my opinion, the biggest problems with the game are itemization and skill choices. Your ideas illustrate why many people quit in the first place. Diablo 3 needs more ways to build your character outside of the RMAH and gambling. I really liked your ideas on gearing, let's hope Blizzard actually listens and does what they KNOW they have to do to FIX DIABLO 3.

One can dream, right?
I keep thinking about this post as I'm mindlessly grinding
Someone please make a TLDR summary so it gets more attention

Not it!


I wish that were possible without losing a significant amount of the impact the post carries :(

Believe me, I tried to make it as short as possible. I could have easily tripled the length if I had wanted to cover LITERALLY everything but then NO ONE would read it...lol

I worry that people cannot fully understand certain elements of the points I am trying to make if they don't read through the entire thing : / That's not to say that no one could, it's just that I feel it's important to understand every bit of reasoning in order to fully grasp why I feel the way about certain things and why my solutions can help.

Thank you very much for your feedback everyone! It feels wonderful to know that my effort has, thus far, not been in vain. Cheers to you all.
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I have to thank you for taking the time to write such a well thought out posts.

Although I feel that I must add in my two cents. Here would be my solution to itemization.
You have three different approaches to fix itemization.
1. Fix the useless or near useless stats. Fix them by making them competitiive to the other stats we commonly use.
2. If you do not fix them then throw them out. And make new ones. I would like to see some special class affixes that would only work on skills without runes. This way it would make an unruned skill useful.
3. A little of both 1 and 2. This is where I lean. I would like to see new and interesting affixes while at the same time some of the ones that can be fixed get fixed. Also throw out any that cannot be fixed at all. If some have a limite use then maybe dove tail those affixes into the new ones. Here is an example that I have you can take the health and potions boost and say for x amount of levels you will automatically get x amount of extra health from potions and globes.

Then you could replace that one with another useful affix. Also do not be afraid to increase the damage of a skill by a huge amount. I have no doubt that there will be players that would use the new affixes. As long as they do not decrease their performance. That is the rule for fixing the affixes on gear. If they will decrease the performance of the player then it is a no go. Because players will not use them at all.

Sorry but trying to bring back a skill tree with Nephalem Points will not work here. It will be one of the new must haves in order to be the most efficient. All BiS gear will have to have that stat and at near max or max rolls. IMO the new system you propose is gonna be like the +skills stat in D2. Tell me how many players would not use that stat on their gear? I know it is no doubt still the top affix in D2.

A good affix system will solve the problem with junk items. If all affixes are useful in some way and compete for a spont on your gear. Then there will be no more junk rolls.

But there are some players that do not care about how efficient their build is. They just have fun stomping the mobs to pieces with their chosen build. It is a for fun build after all. Not the super efficient for fun build. D2 had tons of for fun builds that no doubt many would not dare take into hell or PvP. Because those builds would get owned. Making them more efficient is not needed. Since they are for fun only.

Build diversity IMO will always come from class balance and itemization. There are no other factors that will determine just how efficient you are.

I can understand your frustration. But there will always be only one BiS item for every slot. It is impossible to have two or more BiS pieces for the same slot. If you attempt that then those items are not BiS.

If you got a good itemization system then the item hunt has been solved. No futher improvements are needed.

Since I am one that does not always concern myself with being the most efficient. I have played a small handful of for fun Barb builds that do not use Battle Rage: Into the Fray. They are fun to use, just as any of the for fun builds in D2 were fun to use. They were not always about being super efficient. But for fun only. In fact my level 60 Barb beat inferno using my shaker build Seismic Slam/Earthquake.

My wizard that I recently reroll (reasons that I do not want to discuss in this thread) beat inferno with a build of my own that had two strong single target attacks. Two strong AoE's and two defensive skills. This build, according to those that saw it was a variation of a kiting build that was used a while back. But it did not use CM at all.

I think that in order for mantra of healing to be effective you would need to add it to what your gear gives you in life regen. Meaming that you would use it to boost you further than what your gear is giving you.

Here are my thoughts on PvP in D3. I think that there should be more than one mode of PvP play. I say at least three different modes.
1. Keep brawling, I know that there will be players that will love to kick the snot out of each other in a no holds barred fight.
2. Add in team deathmatches, you can either use them in their current state or improve on them. They would be there for those that love arena based PvP.
3. Add in a zone Quest/PvP mode. Here you would have quests to do as well as having other players to fight.

While I agree that multiplayer needs more rewards for the increased risk. You have to be real careful and not buff the rewards so high. That those that enjoy playing by themselves, believe me there are those that do just that. Will feel forced to team to get the best rewards.

Thanks for the great read. I would not be surprised at all in seeing a CM comment on this one. Not saying that it will happen, just I would not be surprise to see it happen.
Best Post Ever
I think plenty of these solutions are a good idea. I also like how you didn't rage over issues some of these people are having. Don't get me wrong, I can understand why people dislike this game, but asking Jay Wilson to commit suicide or whining about the little things that could easily be avoided (eg. people who complain Plagued is too powerful) isn't the way to go.

I myself like this game and have no problem with it, but I have only made the game any more interesting by messing with cookie cutters.

You don't see me with a WW or HotA barb and you don't see that my wizard has Wicked Wing despite the fact I have critical mass (I wanted to make a Spectral Blader for a long time).

I like to be melee and get in your face action in combat. As I want the last thing my enemies to see is who ended their lives, so I geared my characters towards that.

The main drive keeping me in this game: I want to get to p100 with 1 of each primary attribute (gonna restart monk for Dex).
Edited by ChrisH36#1805 on 2/27/2013 7:03 PM PST
Here is the problem with your logic. We had all those same items and even more in D2 yet I found finding items much better in D2.


Did you read the entire post?

There is a HUGE number of reasons that you enjoyed the loot hunt of Diablo 2 more than Diablo 3 yet almost none of them have anything to do with the number of items that are presented to you. Everything from the ease and convenience of the auction house to the list of possible affixes plays an important role.

The reason that I think items need to be decreased overall is because I do not believe that increasing the base power of items, yet keeping the same rate at which ALL items drop, would be beneficial to the game. You don't just want to give players further incentive to spend MORE time ID'ing items. You want to balance the rate at which they are not engaging in combat vs the time in which they ARE.

Players who achieve efficiency as it exists in this game are burdened with an over abundance of time spent ID'ing items that are almost certain to be useless in every sense of the word.

What we want, is a system in which players who have earned the right to acquire more items in less amount of time don't find themselves endlessly ID'ing said items. Obviously a player who kills lots of monsters very fast is going to have to sort through more stuff than a player who is just starting off, but you must also understand that CURRENT players only sort through this stuff because they HAVE to, not because they WANT to.

There needs to exist a DESIRE to sort through the pile of loot that you've earned. Sorting through loot shouldn't make you think, "There's a million items here, I wonder if even ONE of them will be worth selling". It should make you think, "I wonder what interesting thing I'll find that I've never seen before" or, "I wonder if any of these items will present me with a collection of affixes that inspire me to try a new build" or, "My buddy is trying to stack prime values of Nephalem Power and life regen, maybe I'll find something for him" or, "OMG I've never found a ring with 2 prime rolls".
+1k. Some of the problems you listed were so blatantly obvious anyone with at least 50 hours of game time could have pointed them out. This is depressing.

The way you presented these problems in detail and provided realistic/simple ideas of how to fix them is godlike. Honestly i waited for this game ever since they announced it 12 or so years ago. The only reason i even think about it still is the hype remaining from the wait. The hope that maybe someday it will be the game it was meant to be. If even 10% of these ideas were implemented it would improve the gameplay literally 10 fold.

You have my full support sir.
@DeMasked

I made a very long and detailed response to your first post regarding your issues with the prime loot and nephalem power systems but, for some reason, the post got lost in the world of the internet.

Like an idiot, I didn't hit Ctrl+C before attempting to post.

Now I find myself in a situation where I don't want to retype the whole thing, so...my apologies : /
Give us repeatable quests that require large amounts of demonic essences and other resources to activate. These quests could involve challenges that are almost impossible by yourself but get significantly easier with more players. They could involve things like multiple spawn points where something needs to be protected. You can try covering them all by yourself and it’s certainly possible, but how much more fun would it be to get a team for that kind of thing? YOU COVER TOP SPAWN, I GOT BOTTOM, JERRY CATCHES THE LEAKS, OH NO, JERRY’S DOWN, LAY SOME TRAPS AND GO REZ HIS A**! Have the reward be a guaranteed legendary/set piece and a pile higher tier’d gems. Now ask yourself, is a challenge like that incentive to play? More on this specific topic near the end of this post.


I'm sold.
I have added this to the Itemization section.

"EDIT: I decided that I want to clarify something.

In order for itemization to succeed, players need to be able to say, "if you want to do this build or play this way, you need THESE stats". Not only that, but those builds and styles of play need to be able to achieve efficiency as it is understood today. As the game exists now, everyone is simply saying, "you need ONLY these exact stats, no matter what"."
+1 for good ideas, effort/care put into it, no whining.

I read the first post, will read the rest some other time.

My favorite: the quasi-skill tree idea that could boost the class specific abilities. Even if that were the only thing implemented it'd be a huge turning point.
Why doesn't Blizzard just hire you to direct the game. Oh wait, it would cost money to revamp the piece of !@#$ they created. I really appreciate the effort you put in to putting your ideas down on paper(?), but it's been done before. Blizzard has, and will, do nothing.
Items are overpopulated, pure and simple. Too many whites, too many blues, too many rares, yet still not enough legendaries. No one with any sensibilities picks up ANY equippable items other than rare 1h weapons, gloves, pants, rings, ammies and shoulders. That is what, 1% of the total item pool? People are asking for an “ID all” button because everyone is sick of ID’ing 50 items every 10 minutes. Imagine how many they’d have to ID if they picked up more than just the items I listed above.


I don't have the time or the will to reply to everything you posted.. In general I think your wrong. But I thought I would focus on your above post.

Here is the problem with your logic. We had all those same items and even more in D2 yet I found finding items much better in D2.

There are a lot of problems with items or loot if you will. 1 of which is the BiS.. What you say? am I nuts?? nope.. BiS is to much Best and frankly it devalues everything else. That is not the entire problem but it is a large part of it. Next I'd say there are simply to few legendaries. For example Vile wards are your only lvl 60 legendary choice that you can actually find. There death mantle but they are so bad in comparison to Vile wards that Wards are the choice and everything else short of a few rares are worthless. BiS is ok but the best part should only be slightly better.

That is not everything but it is just small part of it.


But that doesn't mean an ID-all button is bad, right? You can auto-pick up gold now but you can't ID-all items in one click?
Note: One click, and it doesn't have to be done instantly. The very least we've been asking for is one-click to ID everything in the inventory.
Haven't read it all, but I will get back to you.

OldSchool got a blue post. THERE IS STILL HOPE
I took some notes on some of these points.

Skill Affixes

Totally agree here, and I think we will get more of these but probably not in the fashion you stated.

Nephalem Power

Interesting idea, basically a simplified tree system. I didn't like it at first, but after thinking about for awhile it could be really cool and appease those that want to allocate points.

Over Population of Items

I'm so sick of picking up items..... I just have this feeling of despair when picking up items. Even legendaries. I know they aren't going to be good. I have given up hope on finding good. I know that I'm wasting my time id'ing and vendoring crap for chump change. The developers say you don't need the AH but how the hell else are you supposed to make any money for gem's and crafting? Not by selling yellows for 1k a pop

Legendarys

There's like a handful that are even worth it. Most I get are just salvaged since you can't sell them cuz the AH is flooded with so many crap versions of them

Prime Piece

Basically "quality". This could make for some really interesting items. especially for skill affixes :)

Cooldowns

are just ridiculous and really kill the flow of combat. Agree with instead implementing increased mana costs to that skill or limitations to other skills when using that skill.

Aesthetics

The good news is I heard they are going to add this. I don't have source but I read it today on forums from a blue..

Multiplayer

If they don't want us to create custom games at least have categories where we can find people looking for similar gaming experiences as us. I don't want to have to search through the forums to find someone I can play with.

Also really liked the idea of presenting different challenges in multiplayer for bosses. I find that most boss fights are not challenging at all in multiplayer. Its actually easier since you can gang up on the boss. Buff the boss and let him having different abilities based on number of players that make it considerably harder. Same goes for Blues/Elites.

I feel like most of the time when I play multiplayer its just a race to each checkpoint. Nobody wants to wait for anyone, nobody wants to talk....it doesn't feel social (Every now and then I find a good group).
Dear Gosu,

Your post is the best post I have read on the entire forum!

I agree with your proposal for more itemization in game.

1. Weapons that have chance% to freeze or stun are great but the chance% is WAY TOO LOW.
2. Adjusting or making +xxMinDamage +xxMaxDamage and +%Damage guaranteed on inferno dropped weapons is a must! Otherwise there are just too many useless weapons dropping, especially useless legendary items.

Your 'Prime Roll' system is also great! This would make some useless affixes have more meaning! I can foresee that Life Regeneration per Second would benefit the most!

Your ladder system also sounds great! In particular the Endless Monster Power Game or the keeping track of % of all monsters killed in each Act.

You have written an awesome thread! I actually tried to reply with more thoughts before but my reply post did not appear to show up.

Anyways, I really hope Blizzard can take some of your ideas on board!

Peace and Much Respect!
Great post, covered a lot of topics, showed knowledge and good insight into problem solving, all constructive/ nothing negative, no whining (big points there...sick of it...it's boring) and you back up your ideas with some solid examples and simple TUT facts (obviously based on prior hack-n-slash experience).

A+

Need a job? ;)
Also, weapons need to affect game-play much more! Your ideas are a great start!

Maybe Blizzard could introduce new Set items and new Legendary items. These items would be able to match the current BiS items such as the Vile Ward or Mempo of Twilight. (I currently do not have either item at all on any of my Lvl60 characters because I want to LOOK DIFFERENT from everyone else!)

Maybe the Prime Roll system could make the item BoA, this would provide an incentive for Blizzard to implement your system!
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