Diablo® III

The Salvation of Diablo 3: A Guide by Gosu


Most players wouldn't play an action RPG if you keep raising the bar on the loot like Tiers in WoW.

It is a complete false sense of progression for everyone when you keep pulling away the carrot-on-the-stick by making new and better tiers of loot that completely replace all the work you did.


It's however the only way to combat gear inflation, especially with a stupid economy like D3's.


I see more problems with the fact that you dont get rewarded for playing higher difficulties. Not really. If you think about it. You get more MF and if you have high DPS then you will get more items. But you still have the exact same mechanic behind everything, which means that item you find has the same chance to be as usefull on MP10 like MP1. This has to change. The higher you go with the difficulty the better the item QUALITY should be with an increased chance to have higher stats and usefull stats. That way items which now cost billions would slowly get their hands in to usual players and people would feel a sense of "ok content gets stronger but I do as well!" You feel in the long run rewarded. This is how it was with Diablo 2 and why it was so succesfull. It took more time to find items of course the higher you would move up. But actually it was possible to find the equipment to beat the highest difficulty. Not so in D3! Because without a doubt the new "endgame" is sure not Inferno MP0 now ...

Finding simply "more" items is not the solution in my eyes.
Notice in D2 that the devs never really messed with trying to fix the economy and it worked out just fine.

*Cough*
If economy was fine in D2, then also is fine now in D3


It's however the only way to combat gear inflation, especially with a stupid economy like D3's.


No, its because of everyone worrying about the economy in the first place. You don't modify the game to combat the economy because THAT is when the economy breaks down. You let the economy take its course on its own. Notice in D2 that the devs never really messed with trying to fix the economy and it worked out just fine.


There is so much wrong with this post I don't even know where to start.
1. Can you just include an option for non auction house play? So people who enjoy finding items can enjoy them again.

2. Can you also re-implement the choosing of your own skills, so people can enjoy customizing their characters again.

Those two things would allow me to enjoy Diablo again. Until then, I will continue to not play it. Because not only does it feel unfair (point one), it feels pointless (point one, and two).

That's why I don't play Diablo 3.
Oh, and I love the idea of the arena, but it's like a slap in the face, because again, I don't want to use the auction house just to stand a chance against my opponent. It ends up being a battle of who spent the most time in the auction house finding the perfect items. Not my idea of fun.

another suggestion is to group all the good affixes into a shared category so that they can’t all roll on the same item. I think on the surface those sound good but the reality of what they would do to the itemization isn’t what we want.

I think a better approach to this issue is to introduce more affixes that players are interested in, so there is a sense of tension over what the six affixes are on your “ideal gear”. When a perfect pair of gloves is “Core Stat, Vit, Res All, Crit Chance, Crit Dmg, Attack Speed” and you can’t even imagine another stat you would want instead of one of those, we have a bigger problem. Introducing more choice instead of less and giving players more ways to feel like they are customizing their character is what we want to see. If gloves also had the ability to roll +% School Damage, +Life on Hit, Skill specific affixes, plus a couple more things you want, than players may find themselves in a situation where trifecta isn’t as clearly defined anymore.



Just for that... we find our new lead game designer!

As i see it, you should even consider using both solutions
2 to 6 usefull affix and 2 to 4 lesser affix...

sure it make up to 10 affix, but as you said, i'll never take some +heal on globes/potions on gloves since i could have 3 fact + dex + vita + @res... but i might consider it (or thorn or...) if it doesn't cost me a slot that could be a one of the trifact affix.

I would even push it further as i don't want to see pure canon glass items any more...

for 10 affix armor
1 always here core stats (rand beetwin int/dex/strenght)
2 offensive primary stats (crit/crit damage/ IAS/new stat)
2 defensive primary stats (@res/vita/armor/reduc damage in %/new stat)
2 pure random primary stats (among defensive and ofensive)
4 secondary stats (the others stats)
yes it make 11 but core stat is just... almost anvoidable

for weapons, consider increased damage and %damages as alwats beeing here (random value, but not beeing a "payed affix")...
Did any one still look at items without thoses stats any more ? Well, when i know they don't have it, i look at their price to know if i better salvage or sell it to NPC...

--------------------------------------------------------

I'll talk a little bit about me to point out how a few things are really broken.

The spell i want to use are rapid fire web shot (for single), multi shot suppression or full broadside (AoE) and hungering punctunring

What i do is way different...
elemental arrow ligthening bolt, multi shot fire at will and hungering spray of teeth

spray of teeth, with my 60% crits became really more efficiant, 15% x 115% vs 60% x 50% in aoe ? ok it make less damages and it's quite hard to calculate hungering arrow but... even against 1 target, the second rune is almost twice more efficient...

Fire at will is doin 11% weapon damage by hatred while full broadside is only at 7.16%/H
Dividing it in more attack is just doin it more interesting to me.

the last, but not the least...

rapide fire give 13.8%Dmg/H and, after the first shot 27.6%Dmg/H... since we move a lot as DH, the first shot cost is important.
We can use withering, making the spell usable but without control or web shot... If the slow were working correctly... but i barelly feel them, even a 80% slow feel like a 10 or 20%..
Just compare to elemental arrow... it's 15.5%Dmg/H for the basic version it mean that this spell is more efficient against 1 target if we move a lot (and, except against bosses, we do move a lot) and in a pure stationnary shooting, it become more effecient as fast as we have 2 targets (or 1, with ball lightening, you can hit up to 3 time the same target with one shot!).
Compare lightening bolt 60% crit, 2,4 shot by sec, 1.5sec stun to a low efficient slow ? well a singler target (or a row of well placed targets) is just pinned whe i focus them...

Better damage by % if i have to move, better % damage with 2 targets and more (hum.. diablo is not a 1vs1 duel game right ?), better controls... why would i take a pure mono target spell?
and it's not the worst... impale is a 10.6%Dmg/H, pure single target elemental arrow is already better...
+ i noticed that procs like night stalker, were some how limited by attack speed. try marked for death mortal ennemy with a 2hand Xbow, elemental arrow and 0 IAS, than the same mark with 2x1Hand xbow, rapid fire and a full IAS gears...
you'll see the difference, i promise. this is supposed to be a 100% proc, but it proc less with high attack speed and rapiude fire is like a 600%ias

Now, compare lightening bolt and screaming skull, both are 1.5sec control, one is always 40% the second is our crit chance %... ther's a choice only at 40%crit, you want a stun, take the skull under 40%crit and the bolt when over 40%

a last thing and i can make my suggestions all the spells i talked about (wanted and used) have a +spell effect. Those spell effect are on quivers... hum... i'm a dual x-bow hunter...

------------------

suggestions for affixs
delete +spell effect
add +rune power

rune power would increase the effects of all spells runes this would avoid the actual spell aberation of quiver since we could stack it from a bit every items... and some crit friendly runes like spray of teeth could be less "rune power friendly" to balance everything.
Edited by Lycia#2229 on 3/3/2013 10:30 AM PST
Im Still thinking Diablo 3 the worst Diablo ever!

I want back the good story, good challenges, with that dark and Gritty felling like Diablo 1!
Edited by LoFt#1618 on 3/3/2013 10:53 AM PST
03/03/2013 09:49 AMPosted by Nishrek
Notice in D2 that the devs never really messed with trying to fix the economy and it worked out just fine.

*Cough*
If economy was fine in D2, then also is fine now in D3


The economy was fine in D2 compared to D3 because more things were being traded as opposed to just gold. Rings, charms, gems (both chipped and perfect), runes, jewels, any items, free games were people just tossed a bunch of crap on the ground and voila. Many of these items were easily available by simply just playing, and moving around freely to make it happen. It took time, but you knew there was a light at the end of the tunnel. This could easily be done by farming, not from acquiring dupes.

D3 does not operate this way, it's just gold. Find an item, place a 500 million to 1 billion price tag on it in the AH, and instantly 95% of the people will never see it, and they know they'll never see it, not unless they spend real money.

D3's economy is infinitely worse than D2's ever was.. and it only took 2-3 months.
This post speaks the truth!

You asked if we would play your version of the game... Absolutely! Don't get me wrong; I like a lot Diablo 3 current state, but with your tweaks and modifications (I read the whole post twice) it would be 30000 times better.

Congrats on your great post, and with Travis's response my hopes in Diablo 3 are officially re-born.


There is so much wrong with this post I don't even know where to start.


PLEASE by all means, mr economics major...


You're the on advocating the invisible hand. Care to explain how that ought to work in an environment without scarcity and ever-increasing amounts of gold and items?
03/02/2013 09:04 AMPosted by Noxifer


I totally agree. Everything the OP talked about was spot on and a great idea...EXCEPT for Nephalem Power. A not so subtle way of trying to bring back that "classic" mechanic I don't really miss. PoE has done a good job capturing that and improving upon it. Lets keep it out of Diablo 3 and let it continue to evolve without it.

Please, read this..

First, upon braking down, Gosu's idea about removing class specific affixes is not bad at all and it's got hellavalot more to do with itemization, than it does with a "roundabout way of re-implementong the Diablo 2 skill system". I think that both me and the Game designer misunderstood Gosu's idea (which is partially our fault, but partially Gosu's fault as well, considering that again, both me and the dev failed to understand what he was saying initially)... or may be that's my interpretation, I don't know. In any way, please do take a look:

Gosu is not trying to re-implement the old Diablo2 skill tree system, he's merely trying to improve the itemization. He wants to remove class specific bonuses, so that certain item can be just as good for multiple classes instead of just one. A simple example can illustrate that.

Say I have a chest with 90Dex, 90Int, 160+Vita, 70+all resistances and +10max discipline. This chest will clearly operate the best on a Demon Hunter.
Gosu want's to replace the +10max discipline with... say 3 points of Nephalem Powers, which each class can spend on something like talent tree.
Say on my demon hunter I spend 2 points on a tallent "Increases Max discipline by 3 per point" and one point on "Increases hatred regeneration by 1.5 per second, per point".
The difference is that I can now use that chest equally on a Demon Hunter, Monk, Wizard and Witch doctor, because each of those classes would be able to distribute the 3 points to class specific bonuses. The result is that an item that was good for a single class is now good for four!
I hope this explains it better.


Thanks for trying to clarify but you're actually missing a very important of the system. While being able to swap items between classes is absolutely a benefit of the Nephalem Power system, the major benefit of the system is that it allows players the opportunity to invest into altering specific skills or class functions without going through the infinite frustration of finding an item with the EXACT class specific roll you wanted on it.

Anyone who thinks that nephalem power has any relation, whatsoever, to the Diablo 2 skill system doesn't understand the system at all. It's not even a "skill" system per se. Placing focus on it is not mandatory in the slightest and it doesn't actually control the manner in which you create builds for your characters. It's literally the EXACT same system as what is currently in the game except that instead having to roll, "-3 Arcane Power Cost to Meteor" you just roll +X to Nephalem Power points then use those points to decrease your meteor cost by 3. Anything that was previously existing as a class affix will now be in the list of "options".

We're not talking about fundamental alterations to skills here. The system promotes further build diversity because it allows players to more reliably acquire the power that is necessary in order to alter certain skills or class functions that were previously incredibly difficult if not impossible to alter to any significant extent. It's really not that complicated and I honestly can't see how anyone could think that it's anything like the Diablo 2 skill system...lol

It's not even a "skill system"! It's a 2nd layer of customization on an already existing skill system. It doesn't replace any important part of the current skill system and there's just no possible way for it to actually affect the current skill system in a negative way. Only the most horrible balancing effort in the history of gaming could cause the NP system to do serious damage to the game.
31 Human Rogue
MIB
440
02/28/2013 06:58 PMPosted by Travis Day
Your system idea for Nephalem Power Stat is basically a roundabout way of suggesting we re-implement the Diablo 2 skill system. The old skill system was fun, back in the day, but I think it’s honestly dated in today’s landscape. People fondly remember making tons of characters and trying out different builds, and while I have a lot of those same fond memories, I also remember that usually the end result of my time investment in my “cool new character” was complete and utter disappointment.


Oh look, Blizzard is still out of touch.

How are you going to tell me D2's system is outdated when all you've done is remove features that D2 already had?

You'd be in a seat of credibility if D3 was a hit, but in reality, most people give your game a big ole' "C" rating or worse. You've sold as many copies as you have BECAUSE of D2, so I wouldn't be so quick to write it off. It's a better game than the one you've created. Accept it.
Edited by Hexxus#1912 on 3/3/2013 11:28 AM PST
03/02/2013 11:22 AMPosted by overg
Anyway… I have several general suggestions on how to improve the martial arts feeling of the Monk Class as well as a couple more specific suggestions/ideas. There was actually a VERY long and well-written thread detailing almost every Monk skill and rune and how to fix them. Unfortunately, I read it a couple months ago and I have no idea how to find it again.


Sounds like Druin's thread from the monk forums (esp. considering Gosu has a deleted post in it).


That's the one! :D

Strange that my post is deleted though....I've never deleted a post in my life.
I see more problems with the fact that you dont get rewarded for playing higher difficulties. Not really. If you think about it. You get more MF and if you have high DPS then you will get more items. But you still have the exact same mechanic behind everything, which means that item you find has the same chance to be as usefull on MP10 like MP1. This has to change. The higher you go with the difficulty the better the item QUALITY should be with an increased chance to have higher stats and usefull stats. That way items which now cost billions would slowly get their hands in to usual players and people would feel a sense of "ok content gets stronger but I do as well!" You feel in the long run rewarded. This is how it was with Diablo 2 and why it was so succesfull. It took more time to find items of course the higher you would move up. But actually it was possible to find the equipment to beat the highest difficulty. Not so in D3! Because without a doubt the new "endgame" is sure not Inferno MP0 now ...

Finding simply "more" items is not the solution in my eyes.


Well said my friend... Post in my thread and I'll be sure to add this in the OP... I've said it myself a dozen times, and it needs some serious thought... MP10 should be the BEST GEAR POSSIBLE...

Some more great ideas for refining the game... here
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7923723682?page=1
OK! Read it all. Hooray for me!

There is one thing I'd like to throw in to OP's great post, something that has bugged me from the start and bugged me throughout the entire game: the RP/voice thing.

Keeping it short, in D2, all Diablo ever said to you was "Not even death can save you from me..." then BAM, he was in your face with infernos and bone prisons. In D3, we get "So, you approach the occulus with the intent to destroy it? You will NOT succeed." Really? Was that line necessary?

"Look, Tyrael, your old lieutenant!" Come on. Come. On.

The enemy is darker, more evil, more terrifying and more impressive when they don't hold your hand through the entire act (Diablo), tell your their plans every step of the way (Azmodan), meet you during every relevant step in an act and call you a "fool" (Butterfly chick). In my mind, it's much more impressive when a boss says "The last thing you will hear is your bones BREAKING!" before charging at you.

I dunno, that's me. Some food for thought. Less hand holding, less butterflies, less "here's my plan lolwhatugonnado?" more surprises, more evil, more darkness.


While I completely agree with you, I didn't include this issue in my OP because there's really nothing that can be done to fix it at this point. Hopefully the expansion will improve on this area. There are definitely other issues in Diablo 3 as well, I just thought it would be a good idea to focus on the ones that could at least potentially be remedied to some extent before waiting for an expansion.
90 Troll Shaman
PK
10460
I hope Blizzard is actually serious about following up with what their response is instead of this just being a damage limitation PR stunt. Actions speak louder than words, and the last 9 months have been completely disappointing with how much work they've actually done.
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