Diablo® III

Do you use EF on MH or off-hand?

I like mine in my OH, finally found a mace that was good enough for MH that I could afford, now if only I could afford a better one, each one with these stats -49% damage are all 50M+ :(
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So what type of weapon would i want for my MH? What stats??
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Had my EF forever, before I started WW, got it cheap. It works fine in MH, get a SOJ and get the scoundrel set up with cold damage and it locks em down pretty well.
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For WW/WT I use it offhand w/a cold SoJ.

For HOTA, doesn't matter I think but I just leave it in my offhand, I just change my SoJ to a -HOTA one and maybe my belt depending what random skill I feel like using.
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03/04/2013 08:09 PMPosted by Lave
So what type of weapon would i want for my MH? What stats??


Black Damage axe/mace
600-1200 Average Damage
Strength
Socket
Crit Damage
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MH all the way for WW barb. I use OpKs and this runs off the MH. Sprint tornado damage does as well.

Te higher the ave damage the better....this is a situation where a ruby will help. With emerald I get 15k paper DPS over ruby, for tDPS they're identical. Read some threads on te benefits of marq rubies.
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I tested my dps with EF on MH and then OH. I killed Azmodan on mp10 with EF on MH in 60 seconds, with EF on OH it took me about 95 seconds. Azmo has about 138 mil life so the dmg difference is a little more than 800k dps loss with EF on OH. Just saying...
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Works fine for me as MH the fear on mobs rarely bothers tbh.....but then again its a matter of taste i guess?
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03/05/2013 05:02 AMPosted by MWGrun
Te higher the ave damage the better....


EF can't roll that high of an average damage. A regular black damage mace will similar dps + marq ruby will outperform EF.

03/05/2013 07:29 AMPosted by Socrates
I tested my dps with EF on MH and then OH. I killed Azmodan on mp10 with EF on MH in 60 seconds, with EF on OH it took me about 95 seconds. Azmo has about 138 mil life so the dmg difference is a little more than 800k dps loss with EF on OH. Just saying...


Were you testing it with an equivalent black damage mace with around same dps as your EF?

03/05/2013 07:33 AMPosted by G3N3S1S
Works fine for me as MH the fear on mobs rarely bothers tbh.....but then again its a matter of taste i guess?


Pretty sure Phat or someone mentioned it to you before, but your EF has close to the ideal average range which makes urs not a bad choice for MH.

However, for OP to find an EF similar to the 600-12000 average range he needs 100m+. With 100m+ I rather get a black damage mace with socket, crit damage, and str.
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@xxxkan

It's true, I don't have a proper high dps mace to effectively test against my EF, do you know your real dps? And why a mace/axe and not a sword?
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Edit: just checked 1.11m tdps and 1.41m vs elites. This is buffed with BR and WoTB. I didn't put in OP:KS. Might mainhand doesn't have very high average damage, but if u check someone like Phat, he has an ideal mainhand that is around the price of high dps EF. His tdps vs elite is like over 2m I believe.

Sword is extremely expensive to get high average damage and would require you to have a lot of cc as in you actually need a cc mempo to support it. That's not in an average players budget at all. If you look at some SnB barbs like crypter, Nikeboy, and Baller, you will see that they have swords with high average damage even without the gems. However, it took them a while to find and also pricey.
Edited by xxxkan#1130 on 3/5/2013 9:42 AM PST
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If you are a WW an EF MH with stats stick OH will outperform high ave dmg MH with EF OH.

If you're a WW hybrid or HoTA then you want high ave dmg MH and EF OH.

@xxxkan, you do offer correct advice....for gearing up high end game barbs. I don't think most of the guys here can afford a CD/LS EF and a high ave dmg MH.

Also knowing what skills run off MH or OH or alternating is crucial.
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If you are a WW an EF MH with stats stick OH will outperform high ave dmg MH with EF OH.

If you're a WW hybrid or HoTA then you want high ave dmg MH and EF OH.

@xxxkan, you do offer correct advice....for gearing up high end game barbs. I don't think most of the guys here can afford a CD/LS EF and a high ave dmg MH.

Also knowing what skills run off MH or OH or alternating is crucial.


rare mace/ef OH is more expensive than an EF MH? no. the mace MH/ef OH combo you describe is expensive, but there are cheaper versions of the same combo for those with lower budgets.
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@Phat
My MH and OH together cost 45m. Obviously without marq. Ruby. I'm at 2.5/2.85aps with WotB. Fully buffed I'm over 2.6m tDPS vs elites. My entire setup is hard to price considering the BOA but I can say each BOA only cost several mil to craft plus material cost. I can definitely say I have a fairly low cost for the DPS output.
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Including bash punish in your tdps v elites is tough to compare across users. Your non bashpunish tdps is 1.55mil. This number is easy to achieve with comparably priced rare mace MH/EF OH combos.

I must admit that i dont shop for sword OH's much but that sword with str/bigcrit/LS/socket seems like it would be alot.
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15m I grabbed it for. As for bash I hear what you're saying for sure, but I've gotten it down to the point where I have a pattern and repeat. I don't have any issue maintaining bash.

I hear and agree with what you're saying. You've always had excellent advice and I don't know of you remember me but you critiqued me a couple times when I asked for help. You were blunt and straight to the point and after I listened to you I improved. I wouldn't be having this convo if you didn't help so thanks.
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@xxxkan

It's true, I don't have a proper high dps mace to effectively test against my EF, do you know your real dps? And why a mace/axe and not a sword?
I'll try to answer this the best I can, the reason is is if you use your sword on mh with weapons master, it's granting you 15% damage increase, where as a mace/axe adds that 10%cc, so of course your times for azmodan were different because the mace/axe mh will grant a higher dps for you rather than a sword.
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Sorry, let me go back to the sword. My set up is an alternative to yours and is geared purely for WW with Op. the reason I can buy a sword like that for the price is because everyone copies pros like yourself and don't realize wtf they're doing. Essentially top barbs are infamous and their builds become cookie cutter beginnings.

I've found builds to be just like Jenga. A 500m build sometimes cannot be condensed into a 50m budget without toppling over. I'm just hitting a BPS and maintaining a balance until I can upgrade to a build relative to your above comments.
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Calculate which weapons u are going to use , u need at least 1 weapon to have life steal in order to stop using ik belt, which what is ur goal for the high dps wh(at least 30k more dps than ik belt) having a Mh EF with high damage avg and a sword /dagger with 90cdam str socket 800+avg dps in OH, wont costs u much to boost ur tdps to the maximum, like 2,5+aps for ur EF and 2.86+ aps for ur OH thats only if u got the right setup with other gears.

My point is, get a 600-1100avg EF str socket, with dagger/sword with 90cdam socket Life steal with Str, will be the best for ww spec if u ever running on budget, i would highly recommended this setup if u ever going to break 300k unbuff dps, and having 3.5mil+ tdps. Make sure u are running 2.5+ Mh aps and 2.86+ OH aps
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Hello fellow Nephalem!

<---- Low level barb so take advice of vet barbs over this.

@OP

To my understanding, EF is a great weapon primarily because of its +APS affix despite several drawbacks (% Chance to Fear and Limited Slots of additional Affixes).

The trade off between mainhand and offhand EF centers around tradeoff between Fear/Damage Range/Cost vs BPs.

Weapons Master is a standard slotted passive (for the great CC boost) so standard WW builds revolve around Axe or Mace MH. Since EF is mace weapon type, it has the unique ability to be mainhand for Weapons Master CC bonus and still affect +APS offhand.

Mainhand EF:

Pros:
- Keep Weap Master bonus (CC)
- Opens your offhand for fast weapon to push the next BP (In most cases ~2.86 and make 2.5/2.86)
- Can be done w/ less slots of IAS than standard Axe/Mace MH and dagger OH
(If done correctly, should be able to achieve in 4 slots)

Cons:
- Fear Procs
While autoattack fear procs can't be avoided in MH or OH, tornados from RLTW scale w/
MH. W/o applying cold snare to mitigate the fear, monsters will be feared out of nados.
- Requires another gear slot to mitigate Fear
- Cost of High Damage Range EF (especially compared to standard mace/axe)
- High cost of affixes (multiplicative)
High Damage Range/ Decent +APS/ Socket/ CD = Perfect roll
(No margin for error in terms of affix slots makes these difficult to roll)

Offhand EF:

Pros:
- Makes BPs even in both hands and requires less effort to compensate in play
- Achieves higher MH BP w/ less IAS than standard Axe/Mace MH and dagger OH
- Damage Range isn't a big deal
Only paying for affix making it an order of magnitude easier to get and more affordable

Cons:
- Sacrifice OH BPs (by taking spot of fast weapon sword/dagger)
Typically you drop a BP on OH to make a BP in MH or something along those lines.
- Forced to choose 2: LS/Socket/CD (but can't have all three)
- Still requires high enough +APS to take IAS gear slot advantage

@ MWGrun

03/05/2013 05:58 PMPosted by MWGrun
I've found builds to be just like Jenga. A 500m build sometimes cannot be condensed into a 50m budget without toppling over. I'm just hitting a BPS and maintaining a balance until I can upgrade to a build relative to your above comments.


Just a quick glance but I noticed you have 49% IAS on gear w/ +.22 APS. I don't think you are hitting either MH or OH BPs are following just a tiny bit short. When I did a hand calculation awhile ago, I think with a +.24 APS mod, both Sword and EF MH hit BPs just perfectly w/ (9/9/9/8?) can't remember exactly but you can work it out.

According to d3rawr
Fully buffed: 2.4708 / 2.8188

Of course I'm assuming you are trying to hit 2.5/2.86. Ignore this if this is not the case.

Edit:

GL HF
Edited by Cartographer#1273 on 3/5/2013 6:48 PM PST
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