Diablo® III

To those that enjoy it

03/01/2013 06:14 PMPosted by Bottle
I call this a fundamental error in the design of MP. Tougher content that requires less autonomous and more careful interactive play was originally supposed to be more rewarding. But they made it less rewarding, which is why, if we want to get ahead, we are obligated to put the "work" in first (boring autonomous play) in order to have "fun" later (engaging challenging play). I believe the process of levelling up and finding items most optimally was always intended to also be the most challenging way to play, but that isn't the case.


Agreed. The only time I've felt engaged the whole time is playing MP10 self found (only up to Act3 normal so far so this may yet change).
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It depends on what you enjoy doing. Honestly, when you can farm at a decent pace at mp3, any act you farm can let you find the best of the best items and now give you a nice xp boost. The thing with A3 is the same reason Alkaizer did it. A3 simply has the best (relatively easy) monster density areas. A4 has lots of enemies too, but is relatively short. With NV stacks, it can actually be more efficient staying in the game longer for both xp/mf than recreating a new game and have shorter runs.

Is it fun grinding the same thing over and over again the same way? Everyone has their own opinion, and I don't think it is. BTW, you can certainly enjoy your challenging play from the very beginning, you just might not live long enough to reap the benefits.
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play super aggressive and suicidally for a fun time.
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I enjoy A3 a lot. Best rewards/exp vs time, the routes and zones are very simple, and I love blowing up scorpions.
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Now that NV carries from act to act, I've enjoyed doing runs of A3 and then A4. It makes a somewhat longer game but its cool to switch it up. I actually think A4 looks pretty cool and is fun to clear.
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It depends on what you enjoy doing. Honestly, when you can farm at a decent pace at mp3, any act you farm can let you find the best of the best items and now give you a nice xp boost. The thing with A3 is the same reason Alkaizer did it. A3 simply has the best (relatively easy) monster density areas. A4 has lots of enemies too, but is relatively short. With NV stacks, it can actually be more efficient staying in the game longer for both xp/mf than recreating a new game and have shorter runs.

Is it fun grinding the same thing over and over again the same way? Everyone has their own opinion, and I don't think it is. BTW, you can certainly enjoy your challenging play from the very beginning, you just might not live long enough to reap the benefits.


I'm more excited about using items than finding them.

Act 2 got some hotspots in the vault with mad skeletons. Also, it seems like act 1 crypts seem to always have the survival jar of souls event everytime(since the patch). But yeah, act 3's density is no joke - but I did honestly get tired of the monster types.

This is what my DH does after a completed run of blowing sh!t up, cloak still permanent pressed:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-7ABIM2qjU#t=5m50s

What MJ and Chris Tucker both did at 5:50
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Yeah, I guess I can sort of get the whole "slot machine" feeling of the game, I suppose that goes in line with the original design choice of making IDs take so long. Whenever I'm at a casino on the slots though, I'm thinking more about what I'd do with the winnings more so, though. So I think that sort of makes sense as to why I play the game the way I do.

If anyone I haven't played with before wants to play at anytime, add me and we can do some runs wherever you like to go and whatever MP you want, as well. I enjoy seeing how others run the game, especially with those that approach the game different than I do, that's what's so good about this.

One things for certain is that I can't seem to get into or back into any other ARPG, because D3s combat gameplay changed everything for me.
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I think I enjoy doing monotonous things while striving for my goal. While that may be hard to accept for some people, I have found myself enjoying many things that would drive others insane. Continuous runs being one of them.

I do not really think it goes much deeper than that. Over my entire career of playing this game it has been monotonous run after monotonous run at different parts of the game yet I still have yet to get bored of it.

I started with monotonous leveling of 1-60 in hopes I could one day farm Inferno A1.

Next monotonous runs of Inferno A1 with hopes of one day getting to Inferno A2 and finishing the game on Inferno mode.

Next monotonous runs of Inferno A2 with hopes of one day getting to Inferno A3 and finishing the game on Inferno mode.

After finishing the game on Inferno mode I continued monotonous runs of Inferno A2 with hopes one day of being able to comfortably farm Inferno A3.

Then came the MP system where I could do monotonous runs for keys which would allow me to do monotonous Uber runs which would allow me to get a Hellfire ring all while still allowing me to continue my monotonous runs, now in A3.

That is when I changed my play style from a slow rend barb to a fast WW barb and the entire game changed for me. It felt like a completely new game. So I started refining my monotonous runs into new monotonous runs for a good mix of exp/items.

Then I realized that I was gaining exp quickly with my new monotonous runs, so I focused on making my monotonous runs even more monotonous for efficiency. Then I met an awesome group of guys who also shared my love for monotonous runs and we ran our monotonous runs together and had a blast.

Now we are mostly all level 100 and have become more casual in our playing. That doesn't take away from the fact that we enjoyed each other’s company for all of those monotonous runs. Now I continue to do monotonous runs with my WD and do not care about the monotony because if I get bored I go do something else and continue my beloved monotonous runs at a later time. Trying new builds isn't something that really appeals to me, when I get on D3 after work I just want to blow $*%# up in the way I know how to best..... over and over and over again.

Over my course of playing this game as a barb I have touched on: HOTA barb, WW barb, Forced March HOTA barb, and Rend barb, which seems to me like despite the monotony I'm still managing to get around and try other builds quite a bit.

Just because I'm currently addicted to A3 monotonous runs for efficiency does not mean when they fix density of A1 or A2 at a later date that I will never return to my monotonous runs of either of those two acts (or even A4 for all that goes). To this day I do not feel like I am missing out on much by continuing to do my monotonous runs.

TLDR; I think maybe I just love monotony. :p
Edited by yaminokame#1148 on 3/1/2013 8:45 PM PST
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I do MMA IRL actually... one thing in MMA, you work the basics over and over again and improve little by little... I find that fun. So I'm a natural grinder I guess.

MP0 is a snoozefest though... when I do it I time myself and just try to clear faster and faster.
Edited by MrDeAtH#1112 on 3/1/2013 8:57 PM PST
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I do it for paragon XP leveling. It's like the work effort you put into a hobby. The MF pays off later on...


I call this a fundamental error in the design of MP. Tougher content that requires less autonomous and more careful interactive play was originally supposed to be more rewarding. But they made it less rewarding, which is why, if we want to get ahead, we are obligated to put the "work" in first (boring autonomous play) in order to have "fun" later (engaging challenging play). I believe the process of levelling up and finding items most optimally was always intended to also be the most challenging way to play, but that isn't the case.


This is true.

Just forget that there is such a thing as "ahead in this game." Do some runs on an mp level you feel like, maybe change it up with a goofy build you think is fun but won't get you killed, one paragon level at a time. Or play some D3 business simulator, hoarding one million (billion) gold at a time. In the end the game will no longer exist anyways. And then nobody will remember what "ahead in this game" ever meant.
Edited by Bnetplayer#11398 on 3/1/2013 9:10 PM PST
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My brain is small and full of mice.

I hate innovation.
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For me the reward is paragon level. So the only choice is to grind A3 runs. Particularly when you start treating it like a competition and you look at the ladders and want to beat the other people around you.

I missed out on the first 100 paragon WD on US servers by 36 hours and I'm still upset about that.
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For me the reward is paragon level. So the only choice is to grind A3 runs. Particularly when you start treating it like a competition and you look at the ladders and want to beat the other people around you.

I missed out on the first 100 paragon WD on US servers by 36 hours and I'm still upset about that.


Ouch. Yeah, I feels. You damn good at that, too, you shot up paragon super fast on your DH as well.

It would be great if the game had a real official ladder with resets, though. I'd try to be in the first to complete HC Inferno on DH in the ladders this time. At the time I was like 40 world and 20 U.S. and one of the rare DH's past Belial before MPs. But that type of thing lost it's "meaning" very quickly to me and probably everyone else.

@ yaminokame: I know what you mean about the monotony, it's a GOOD thing that this game's combat is so wonderful. I honestly can't do the monotony thing in this game, but I had no problem doing that in Sacred II: Ice and Blood.
Edited by ActionKungfu#1184 on 3/1/2013 10:33 PM PST
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and one of the rare DH's past Belial before MPs. But that type of thing lost it's "meaning" very quickly to me and probably everyone else.


I feel you there. Back then it actually meant something. The game was hard, it was an accomplishment. Then they nerf/nerf/nerfed. Now I just hit 60 on a Wiz and I can just go to the AH and easily buy gear to beat infernal. If I'm willing to spend a bit I can buy gear I couldn't get at any price when I was leveling my WD. Now there are 7 Zuni rings with CC in the AH. Back in Nov there often weren't any.

I guess thats part of why I'm motivated to pursue that 100 paragon. There are no shortcuts. I can't just trade for it.
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People like having a sense of progress, paragon leveling gives us a sense of progress and act 3 just towers over the other acts in terms of xp efficiency. Blizzard really needs to do a bit more to balance monster density between acts.

Lately I've been doing short mp3 key runs in acts 1 and 2 though so that has been a good change and I'm going to start doing Vault of the assassin runs for gathering essences as well.
Edited by Thominator#6377 on 3/2/2013 1:06 AM PST
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People have different meanings of fun. besides OP I don't just do act 3 on mp0 over and over again I increase the mp levels to create a challenge if everything just melts to fast. Also there are more things to do then just act 3 runs there's ubers? vault runs for essence and tomes, achievements and the expansion/patches will be a while from now. I understand your afraid of purchasing top gold items because they will either depreciate or skyrocket in prices but come on! take a chance LOL whats the point of all that gold in you stash. XD
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Fun is when i find new gear to put on my characters and make new builds. Is there a faster way to get new gear and gold besides act3mp0? I do not like repetitive grind but i want new stuff to play with.
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I'll go with the gambling addiction and slot machines.

Nothing beats that sound of a Legendary Item dropping, with the light coming off it reaching for heaven.....until you ID it and curse the Blizzard Random Number Generator of Doom.

I love that ephedrine-like feeling of seeing that legendary sitting on the floor waiting for me to pick it up. When I got a double-drop I almost had an aneurism.
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03/02/2013 12:47 AMPosted by bremen
and one of the rare DH's past Belial before MPs. But that type of thing lost it's "meaning" very quickly to me and probably everyone else.


I feel you there. Back then it actually meant something. The game was hard, it was an accomplishment. Then they nerf/nerf/nerfed. Now I just hit 60 on a Wiz and I can just go to the AH and easily buy gear to beat infernal. If I'm willing to spend a bit I can buy gear I couldn't get at any price when I was leveling my WD. Now there are 7 Zuni rings with CC in the AH. Back in Nov there often weren't any.

I guess thats part of why I'm motivated to pursue that 100 paragon. There are no shortcuts. I can't just trade for it.


Man I remember when there was only THREE Windforces on the AH, practically no Nat's Reflections, no Calamities, poor rolled Nat's Embrace was worth more because there weren't many, etc.
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The economy is being over saturated that truly hunting items, why would I, when the items will eventually come to me anyway. I prefer to just craft now basically. Seeing how quickly the economy over saturates, I had quickly stopped considering that as a reason for playing.

Even with paragon more exp was added, so it's faster for players to progress in that, too. But you're definitely right, there's no shortcuts, you have to be dedicated there's no question about that.

There's basically two major reasons why I don't push paragon:

1. Paragon doesn't add anything for me. If there were more runes and passives, you damn well better believe I'd be pushing paragon.

2. Lag outs. Due to instantly being stripped without my control, and combining with reason number 1, I have no incentive put a ruby in my helmet nor wear a hellfire ring(and I had had two gfg ones on, too).

Ubers bore the piss out of me:

1. The enrage timer
2. Besides Kulle and Ghom, they couldn't have picked more wack bosses(relatively). Would love to go up against the Butcher or Belial, two of the best designed bosses in the whole game, imo.
Edited by ActionKungfu#1184 on 3/2/2013 8:12 AM PST
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03/02/2013 02:47 AMPosted by June
People have different meanings of fun. besides OP I don't just do act 3 on mp0 over and over again I increase the mp levels to create a challenge if everything just melts to fast. Also there are more things to do then just act 3 runs there's ubers? vault runs for essence and tomes, achievements and the expansion/patches will be a while from now. I understand your afraid of purchasing top gold items because they will either depreciate or skyrocket in prices but come on! take a chance LOL whats the point of all that gold in you stash. XD


I don't have any gold :). I spend it on backup gear and build alternatives. I used to have multiple nat's reflections and bloody footprints, I have over 5 nat's embraces that have different bonuses on them, various bows and hand crossbows. Since I'm always switching stuff around I just have a big stash of playing styles and enough DH items to gear up 4+ to come right back and be at least solo MP2/3+ capable with something new.

I also just give some of the items away, to players that are apprehensive of playing at the pace or MP I'd be on, or when they just died, so I've been known to give some of my stash away. Not many things really move on the AH anyhow, many of the items I have stashed away depreciated so freakin fast. I can be wearing a pair of boots that used to be worth 100+ mil(what I'm wearing on my DH now), but they don't even get bought out 50 mil now(or atleast that's what it looks like). A life steal Calamity over 1k dps used to be worth 10s of millions but you can sell like 200-300 tomes and grab one now when you see one.
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03/02/2013 12:47 AMPosted by bremen
[quote]and one of the rare DH's past Belial before MPs. But that type of thing lost it's "meaning" very quickly to me and probably everyone else.


Even if it had meaning back then, and the game wasn't nerfed, and the items/drops weren't improved way too much, with everything about the game staying the same, it would still lose its meaning after so much time. I cleared at #145, but even if the game stayed exactly the same, there would still be thousands by now.

IMO the gear availability lowered the difficulty more than the nerfs to enemies and buffs to classes.

Also, Lol at the november cc zuni rings from another post... there were zero plain zuni rings on ah in July.... paunche kendo xudon were going all in on the crappy zuni ring some nubsy found in act 2. Nowadays rings like that one are sold en masse wholesale, and every wd/wiz and their relatives have one or two.
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