Diablo® III

What are the requirements for Rend/HoTA/WW

For the rend/hota/ww high mp farming build is using a Skorn and a passive other than bloodthirst really the only difference between a cookie cutter dual tornado build???

I've kind of hit the ceiling with my dw tornado build but would like to farm mp10 and it seems like mp10 with skorn is more affordable so im looking at the switch but unsure of what to change
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I started running such a build this weekend and it's lots of fun. It's certainly not what I'd consider affordable by any stretch of imagination though. If you really want to be optimal, you need 57% IAS to hit the 6 tps breakpoint in wotb with Skorn. The next breakpoint down, 5.45 tps, needs "only" 42%.

Good Skorn builds come with a tremendous amount of baggage in the form of needing to cram IAS into nearly every slot possible, and top-end Skorn players usually have mempo, lacunis, witching hour, and inna's simultaneously, or at least 3 out of the 4, and high EHP in the rest of their gear to support it.

You can still run the same build while dual wielding. Your rend and HotA crits will be significantly weaker, but you don't have to regear.
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Damn well i'm nowhere near being able to afford some of the type of gear you have haha
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I'm just a cheap knockoff of the real GG Skorn WW barbs:
(All 3 videos are really good to watch)

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7894109404?page=1
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7415515590
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/8088618856

But FWIW, you have reasonably matched damage ranges on both of your weapons, unlike most ww barbs, so you'll be doing decent damage if you decide to add HotA and/or rend to your skill bar. Moving to Skorn isn't a priority, and really isn't even necessary. I used to use similar builds months ago while dual wielding cheap maces. In which case, I would give the same advice that I would whether you're going pure dtww or a hybrid- work on your survivability so that you can drop war cry, and eventually bloodthirst as well, to give yourself more room for DPS skills. What you're most sorely lacking is vitality, and you can make that up by upgrading your pants and chest.
Edited by silverfire#1855 on 3/4/2013 4:35 PM PST
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Good advice, my budget becomes a constraint sadly. For example a 170 vit IK chest is going for 33+ million. With only 7 million in the bank it's going to be a painfully slow upgrading process i figure

Should i maybe switch to Blackthorne's surcoat with some vit gems and make up for the lost AR with 200+ str vile wards?
Edited by GoldenHawk#1372 on 3/4/2013 5:30 PM PST
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I have tried WW/rend/HotA, but it does not work for my barb. WW with Skorn will leave you with much less fury than a dual wield setup because your tornadoes do not produce as much fury per cast. For Skorn, I believe you must have fury cost reduction on HotA to make it play well. You are relying on HotA for single target damage and you lack killing spree buff, which limits fury production from WW/nadoes. You therefore must rely on HotA as a fury generator or to be close to fury neutral when killing a single target.

So you need to run animosity (or superstition), -4/5 fury reduction minimum, and have good cc with an SOJ equipped. Cold damage would be even better because it will trap monsters in tornadoes longer.

I find overall that killing spree is better than HotA for WW/rend as the third slot. The gear requirements are not as steep and you can run brawler or berserker rage as the third passive.

WW/rend/Hota is overall a weird spec. WW/KS/HotA and WW/KS/Rend are better with fairly generic gear (i.e. no -hota cost SOJ).
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Good advice, my budget becomes a constraint sadly. For example a 170 vit IK chest is going for 33+ million. With only 7 million in the bank it's going to be a painfully slow upgrading process i figure

Should i maybe switch to Blackthorne's surcoat with some vit gems and make up for the lost AR with 200+ str vile wards?


2H builds can be very powerful but you basically shift cost from the weapon to armor. High DPS skorn is cheaper for the dps you get than a dual wield setup, but you end up needing a lot of IAS to make it work well. So your armor costs more.

Anyway, I would get a cheapo skorn without LS or IAS to try it out. It's substantially different in speed and feel, so give it a shot before going all in.
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Give it another try with animosity. You have the aps for it, even though it can be clunky. I also think HotA reduction is very important, but Death makes it work quite well without, but he's sitting at the 6 tps breakpoint.

I'm not sure what my preference for hybrid skill is yet. The 3 videos I posted have rend/hota, rend/op:ks, and op:ks/hota respectively.

I started out with the latter at first, but my issue with that spec is simply that I haven't played the dtww style in months and it feels too foreign for me to rely on sprint/ww for damage and healing. Without rend, I felt like I was killing like a slug and also spending a lot more time than I'd have wanted trying to position myself and even kite away from arcanes etc, even on MP8. dtww+opks+hota is basically dtww and using HotA only for single target. Other than that, sprint and ww need to be your main damage dealers, and I don't feel like the 5.45 breakpoint is that good for that.

I also tried rend+op:ks. I felt comfortable with that spec against champ packs, but felt awkward against rares without HotA because I'm just too used to it. Plus, once again, below the 6 tps breakpoint, spinning around a single target is clunky.

Rend+hota fixed both issues for me. I view sprint+ww more as mobility tools than main damage dealers. Rend supplements AoE damage, HotA single target. Of course having reduction facilitates that for me, and it's probably why I can get away with somewhat low crit chance. I thought dropping OP:KS would be a much bigger problem than it ended up being. Killing goblins solely with HotA even in isolation proved to be no problem.

I don't think there's exactly a "best" build here, and if anything, the average kill times that wayneold is keeping track of are simply showing that there are many ways to skin a cat, and they end up coming within seconds of each other.
Edited by silverfire#1855 on 3/4/2013 6:02 PM PST
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Should i maybe switch to Blackthorne's surcoat with some vit gems and make up for the lost AR with 200+ str vile wards?

When I was at your budget level, I used blackthorne's chest+pants. In fact, I clung to blackthorne's surcoat even after getting several other pieces that were worth over 10x it, even though I could have easily afforded a decent IK. I personally like it and the pants a lot, and I feel like they're underused by mid-range players.

You could also try picking up a cheap Skorn to feel it out as Jim recommended, could even get one with vit, but I feel like it'd serve you better to get more IAS on your jewelry before doing so.
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K just grabbed some 2os blackthorne pants for cheap.

Guessing i should look for a 250+ vit chest? And str gems or vit gems in all 5 slots?
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@ Goldenhawk
BOA craft your shoulders
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03/04/2013 05:57 PMPosted by silverfire
I don't think there's exactly a "best" build here, and if anything, the average kill times that wayneold is keeping track of are simply showing that there are many ways to skin a cat, and they end up coming within seconds of each other.


The kill times are very close, but the gear check for each build is dramatically different....myself and Det0x had very similar kill times in our videos, but his gear set is one of a kind, whereas the set I was working with is still high end gear, but a lot more attainable.

Also, the WW/OP:KS/Rend build was overall faster because of the mobility and the ability to tap Rend and run on white mobs. In the end, all the builds have similar kill times on elites, but the gear required for WW/OP:KS/Rend is less than the gear required for the other builds to get them to the same kill speed.
Edited by Wayneold#1685 on 3/5/2013 7:54 AM PST
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I think I have put a pretty good set for this build together. I do very well against pretty much anything, but it does take a lot of time and gold (which I don't buy gold either) so you just have to be persistent, but it pays off well.
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@Wayne, I meant to compare what you used in the video versus Death and DAKKON, who had/have very similar gearsets with Skorn to the one you were using. They use slight variations to the build you were using but perform very close. det0x's gear and build are very unique and can really only be used by him heh.

@Psyclone, pretty sick gear you got there...if only you could cram in another slot of movement speed.
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03/05/2013 08:08 AMPosted by silverfire
@Wayne, I meant to compare what you used in the video versus Death and DAKKON, who had/have very similar gearsets with Skorn to the one you were using. They use slight variations to the build you were using but perform very close. det0x's gear and build are very unique and can really only be used by him heh.


Ahh, I misunderstood....inevitably, the difference between all 3 of those videos are small, like you stated. It's whatever flavor you want to use. I will always argue for Rend + OP:KS though....I have my reasons for preferring it overall, and I find it to be the most effective (also, I believe my kill times were about 10% faster than the other builds) but overall, it really is splitting hairs....all of them are great builds.
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@silverfire

Thanks bro, it's a work in progress. I'll get the extra slot for speed at some point but only if I don't have to sacrafice too much in the process. I very much appreciate the feedback.
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03/05/2013 08:18 AMPosted by Wayneold
@Wayne, I meant to compare what you used in the video versus Death and DAKKON, who had/have very similar gearsets with Skorn to the one you were using. They use slight variations to the build you were using but perform very close. det0x's gear and build are very unique and can really only be used by him heh.


Ahh, I misunderstood....inevitably, the difference between all 3 of those videos are small, like you stated. It's whatever flavor you want to use. I will always argue for Rend + OP:KS though....I have my reasons for preferring it overall, and I find it to be the most effective (also, I believe my kill times were about 10% faster than the other builds) but overall, it really is splitting hairs....all of them are great builds.

I think I agree with you that rend+op:ks is the best on paper. If there's a build to master for PvE farming, that would have to be it because the AoE damage is so high and the crit chance buff just compounds its power. But it really is splitting hairs, so overall it's okay to go with whatever you're most comfortable with.
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