Diablo® III

How good is calamity?

Can anyone tell me how good is calamity compare to 2 socket manticore?
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Two very different weapons.. two very different build directions. So in the end it's up to you.

Manti - High dps, slower.
Calamity - faster, lower dps (not bad dps, lower, you have to invest more to get better dps)

Personal choice for me is Calamity.
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03/05/2013 09:34 PMPosted by MadRussian
Personal choice for me is Calamity.


^^
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You lose a socket and 170-200 dex. The higher speed means you lose hatred efficiency, aka lower effective dps.

You get marked for death proc, hatred regen and better procing due to its speed.
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03/05/2013 11:58 PMPosted by Josef
The higher speed means you lose hatred efficiency, aka lower effective dps.

What?!
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One hits harder but slower, and the other hits softer but faster.

... well, the words "harder" and "softer" are a bit deceiving. Both weapons hit like a yacht, and a bigger yacht.

The biggest difference, in my opinion, is the price.
You can get a two socket Manticore, ~1100 DPS, 95+ CD damange for less than 10 mil. (But no dex!)
But ~1100 DPS, soc'd Calamity will cost you your first born son.

My Manticore (in my profile) costed me around 8 mil... and I'm doing perfectly fine with it.
So I would personally recommend Manticore for its affordability.
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03/06/2013 12:39 AMPosted by BurningJC007
The higher speed means you lose hatred efficiency, aka lower effective dps.

What?!


You spend hatred faster than you generate it.
Simply put, say you're using a hatred spender (ball lightning) at 10 hatred.
With a calamity at 3aps you're spending 30hatred per sec.
With a Manticore at 2aps you're spending 20 hatred per sec.

For the same DPS you're spending 50% more hatred. With higher hatred cost spells, this difference is very apparent.

While calamity does have a passive hatred rege, and you do generate hatred faster with your generators... it's not enough to offset the difference.

Back to the OP.

You lose DPS with a calamity (compared to a manticore at a similar price point).
However, you gain far better proc's (great for nightstalker), and due to the attack speed, skills like thunderball can provide a near-perfect stunlock.
Skills like sentry also do more damage.

My personal choice (and I have a top-end one of each), is to use calamity. I've been fooling around with a manticore at lower MPs, and it definitely feels more effective at the lower MPs ( though far less enjoyable)
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my personally choice is calamity, hope to get a high end calamity drop someday or have enough gold to purchase it
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03/06/2013 01:20 AMPosted by Menlyn

What?!


You spend hatred faster than you generate it.
Simply put, say you're using a hatred spender (ball lightning) at 10 hatred.
With a calamity at 3aps you're spending 30hatred per sec.
With a Manticore at 2aps you're spending 20 hatred per sec.

For the same DPS you're spending 50% more hatred. With higher hatred cost spells, this difference is very apparent.

While calamity does have a passive hatred rege, and you do generate hatred faster with your generators... it's not enough to offset the difference.

Back to the OP.

You lose DPS with a calamity (compared to a manticore at a similar price point).
However, you gain far better proc's (great for nightstalker), and due to the attack speed, skills like thunderball can provide a near-perfect stunlock.
Skills like sentry also do more damage.

My personal choice (and I have a top-end one of each), is to use calamity. I've been fooling around with a manticore at lower MPs, and it definitely feels more effective at the lower MPs ( though far less enjoyable)

I know what Josef meant, but if you know what you're doing, you'll output as much if not more dps than a Manticore user.
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How?
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03/06/2013 02:06 AMPosted by BurningJC007
I know what Josef meant, but if you know what you're doing, you'll output as much if not more dps than a Manticore user.


Really?
with some builds, perhaps... Especially builds which use punishment to turn discipline from procs into Hatred.

But to say that as a blanket statement, is pure false information.
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I know what Josef meant, but if you know what you're doing, you'll output as much if not more dps than a Manticore user.


Really?
with some builds, perhaps... Especially builds which use punishment to turn discipline from procs into Hatred.

But to say that as a blanket statement, is pure false information.

how so? If a build does exist that can output as much dps as a Manticore user, my statement won't be false, that's why I stated if you know what your doing. If people choose to use builds that don't take advantage of the Calamity's attack speed that doesn't mean they can match a Manticores dps if they switch builds. It does however take some work.
Edited by BurningJC007#1355 on 3/6/2013 3:04 AM PST
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Even if that is so, the lower hatred efficiency is still a factor. That you you could make up for it in some way doesn't change that.

For example I can make up for the low nightstalker procing of manticore by stacking attack speed, using more disc items or skills with better proc coefficient, but that doesn't change the fact that Calamity in itself is better at procing, does it?

The point wasn't really to argue or say which is better, I just listed their pros and cons.

Could you give me an example of a build that makes calamity do more edps than manti?
Edited by Josef#1907 on 3/6/2013 3:37 AM PST
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They are both about even imo.

It depends on what type of build you want to do... and just personal preference.

Test it out for yourself thats how I ended up figuring it out.

I prefer the Calamity for Stun Locks and Nightstalker procs.

With a Calamity i am at 303K dps.. with a Manticore I am at 327k dps. In higher MPs your build/defense is more important than more dps imo.

The same goes for lower MP levels.
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03/06/2013 03:00 AMPosted by BurningJC007


Really?
with some builds, perhaps... Especially builds which use punishment to turn discipline from procs into Hatred.

But to say that as a blanket statement, is pure false information.

how so? If a build does exist that can output as much dps as a Manticore user, my statement won't be false, that's why I stated if you know what your doing. If people choose to use builds that don't take advantage of the Calamity's attack speed that doesn't mean they can match a Manticores dps if they switch builds. It does however take some work.


Ok, please list a calamity build which does more dps than ANY manticore build, and puts out more DPS under any and all circumstances.... as you know what you're doing.
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If you can afford trifectas and stack plenty of IAS, Manti is pretty good.

But if you want to keep your money resource to the minimal and just concentrate on CC and CD, Calamity is the way to go. Calamity also benefits most from % elemental damage from soj/inna belt, since it's a black weapon.

Also, can't stand the slowness of Manti


how so? If a build does exist that can output as much dps as a Manticore user, my statement won't be false, that's why I stated if you know what your doing. If people choose to use builds that don't take advantage of the Calamity's attack speed that doesn't mean they can match a Manticores dps if they switch builds. It does however take some work.


Ok, please list a calamity build which does more dps than ANY manticore build, and puts out more DPS under any and all circumstances.... as you know what you're doing.


Any build with Nightstalker passive and bola shot. Perm stun + gloom if done correctly, can't do that with slow as snail manti.
Edited by fathom#6674 on 3/6/2013 6:22 AM PST
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03/06/2013 05:18 AMPosted by Menlyn
more dps

03/06/2013 06:17 AMPosted by fathom
Perm stun + gloom

...
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more dps

Perm stun + gloom

...


shoot fast and attack consecutively > more dps but kite

I love how the manti fanboys love coming to calamity threads.
Edited by fathom#6674 on 3/6/2013 6:29 AM PST
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03/06/2013 06:28 AMPosted by fathom
shoot fast and attack consecutively > more dps but kite

No need to kite just because you have a manti. Stun is one way to handle things, having good ehp is another (I'm probably in low mp gear so don't even...).

03/06/2013 06:28 AMPosted by fathom
I love how the manti fanboys love coming to calamity threads.

How is a "how good is calamity compared to manticore" thread not the right place to discuss calamity vs manticore? I have been asking questions and stating facts, and not even said which one is better. So the fanboy comment is pretty far off.
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Geez, I dunno, I really do think that this is a case of Different Strokes for Different Folks.

Both have strengths, both have weaknesses. The only person who can determine whether or not one is "better" than the other is the individual.
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