Diablo® III

Bleed+Thorns+Pickup Radius Community Ideas

Blizzard has mentioned that along with their thorns change will come some class changes allowing people to build with the affixes, so what things do you want to see? I'm interested in all/any of your ideas for any of the more "useless" affixes in the game. I'll just toss out two for bleed.

Witch Doctor Passive Infection:
Poison damage causes bleed damage to the target to deal x% more damage for y seconds.

Demon Hunter Passive Blood Rage:
Every time an enemy gains a bleed stack within x yards (range increased with pickup radius) you gain y hatred.
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i don't get it.

bleed is fine as is, thorns just needs to scale with damage and increased pickup radius is totally sought after by high level farmers...
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Guybrush Treepwood, A mighty Pirate!

Sorry about that..

anyways the main idea i think is to make those stats worthwhile to have under any circumstances, not just in very niche builds.

Pickup radius is already strong for wds, but only a small part of WDs actualy gear for it. Other classes neglect it entirely.

So i propose Pickup radius should be renamed to area of effect, and affects all AOE spells to some extent, but retaining its pickup radius function. That way ppl could choose between having massive AoE increases, or keeping AoE radius to a minimum, so to be able to use health globes as a tatical heal.

For thorns, it was posted somewhere that blizz is planning on making the bonus damage off main stats to work with thorns damage: That alone could fix thorns and make it useful in inferno, incluiding high mps,,

and lastly bleed: just follow the same line as for thorns, and im sure itll be great aswell. give it some proper damage scaling (based of main stat), or turn it into a bleed x% of targets health in y seconds, Either will do
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I'm gonna have to respectfully disagree bichopapao. If we're going to add new affixes (well, technically they're already in the game, they're just so bad that no one notices) then they should be something that can be built around, not something that is equally meh for everyone.

I really do love the pickup radius idea, and I think implementing a +% pickup radius for many AoE skills could be fun.

Making thorns scale with main stat simply doesn't work for a myriad of reasons.

1. Thorns only returns melee damage, not ranged. This alone will mean that it's never something you can build around, or even be terribly useful.

2. Only Monks and Barbarians really TRY to get hit, and monks main stat, and MANY skills scale NEGATIVELY with thorns, because when you dodge, you don't get hit.

3. Everyone, and I mean EVERYONE already stacks main stat and has a VERY similar amount of it in each economic strata. This means that thorns will be equally useful/bad for just about everyone meaning that we are essentially again taking away any CHOICE to be made in the matter. It either is good, is bad, or is a decent bonus if the other affixes are nice, but nothing that one group will choose over another.

As for bleed, it has similar issues, though, since it's a proced effect, some skills/builds will be FAR better for it, meaning that it's already got some interesting build options (CM wizard, it's great, Archon wizard, not so much. WW barb? Yes please. Hammer Barb? Couldn't care less.) It also scales naturally with AS, giving some gearing choice.

Long story short, bleed and thorns are a different source of damage, and could just be another whatever bonus on top of the only strategy that currently exists, which is do TONS OF DAMAGE WITH SKILLS! Or, blizzard could make them into completely new gearing options of their own, which is really the only way they're going to be interesting.
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There are three main issues I personally see with thorns currently.

1. Only working on melee attackers is one of the few things they took straight from D2. In diablo 2 it was a rare and equally useless stat past level twelve.Making it work on ranged; even at a reduced effectiveness would go far in making this an ideal stat to deal damage when going defense.

2. No indicators when thorns goes off, one thing they should have brought back from D2 was when an enemy was damaged by thorns their sprite would get a flashy circle of thorns in their center of gravity letting you know that your thorns were effective on them. Seeing this could help alleviate how frequent the enemies are being hurt by thorns.

3. No scaling with Monster power also harms thorns currently, badly too. On launch I was actually working towards a thorns build for my barb, due to 30k damage on being struck was a healthy amount of damage for base inferno back then. Since then monster power has been released and I would need to be struck about a hundred times to kill an elite in MP 7+. Scaling with a primary stat like the devs have been looking into would fix this.
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Make thorns boost certain skills? those skills can then be build around. some skills that could potentially benefit from thorns:

dh chain of torment
dh fan of knives
barb gangway
barb furious charge
wizard ice armor
wizard diamond skin <- increase the damage absorbed
monk serenity
monk mantra of retribution
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Pickup radius = Useless?

... Lol.
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SocknBoppers I'm still gonna have to disagree that scaling with primary stat is a good choice. Consider that back in base inferno your DPS was probably around 30k and is now likely around 100k. That's over tripled. Now, back then you likely still had about 2k main stat, now you MIGHT have 3k? Everyone gets main stat on just about everything, and always has. You may as well just multiply it's current damage by a set amount and leave it at that, I would prefer a seperate stat, perhaps called a modifier stat that some other things can scale off of. Things like bleed, perhaps some skill affects. Point is, I want thorns to be able to be a build, not just some moderate bonus damage if it's on an item that I can't really build around.

That and you didn't mention that it scales so poorly with monks, making barbs pretty much the only class that can build around it well. They're also the only class with a decent passive for it.
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I said that giving it primary stat scaling would fix the monster power issue, not that it was the best choice that could be made. And yes, monks and demon hunters' main stats negatively effect thorns due to dodge and wizards are much too frail to get hit on purpose. The two classes that can currently make use of thorns is WD and Barb due to tough as nails/armor and fierce loyalty/disposable pets.

A few Ideas to fix the monk issue would to be giving them a passive them causes them to deal 100%< thorns damage on a succesful dodge.

But yes, everyone builds primary stat already because it is the way the game is designed. There is very little you can do to change that and there is already an effective "Thorns Trifecta" in game (Thorns, Armor, A/R) leaving a single stat on all your armors to be %life or life regen or whatever you deem necessary. All this doesn't truly make it a great system for "unique" builds because everyone currently needs as much of their primary attribute as they can spare.
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I said that giving it primary stat scaling would fix the monster power issue, not that it was the best choice that could be made. And yes, monks and demon hunters' main stats negatively effect thorns due to dodge and wizards are much too frail to get hit on purpose. The two classes that can currently make use of thorns is WD and Barb due to tough as nails/armor and fierce loyalty/disposable pets.

A few Ideas to fix the monk issue would to be giving them a passive them causes them to deal 100%< thorns damage on a succesful dodge.

But yes, everyone builds primary stat already because it is the way the game is designed. There is very little you can do to change that and there is already an effective "Thorns Trifecta" in game (Thorns, Armor, A/R) leaving a single stat on all your armors to be %life or life regen or whatever you deem necessary. All this doesn't truly make it a great system for "unique" builds because everyone currently needs as much of their primary attribute as they can spare.


Which wouldn't actually be the case if you could do decent damage with bleed/thorns and it scaled off of SOMETHING else, anything else really. And currently a thorns trifecta would be more like thorns/AR/regen or LoH. Armor is so much worse than AR on everyone it's laughable, and it's even worse on a barb.
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