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Oh yeah...this is HUGE. I love rolling with DF for most of my farming. You do lose Bone Chill, but come out ahead in the end. Best is to have two CM's farming. The lower DPS one runs Bone Chill for the party DPS buff, and the higher DPS one runs DF. It's great.
Thanks. I had my eye on a nice skull grasp with a low bid before work but someone bought it out and reposted at ridiculous pricing, so I had to back away.
I'm glad my question provoked some experimentation (saw other thread) and the result are indeed interesting - esp how at high end gear the two different styles (2.5 and 2.73) both seem to get to the same dps zone.
I've been able to buy gear to experiment with the variations and only spent a few hours over the past week on each style, but this seems to be what I'm seeing with high-good but not bis or godly gearing:
1. High end +ww/chd/os slorak with any offhand at 2.5aps seems to be middling with regards to dps/effectiveness
2. black dagger with trium at 2.51 seems to be the loser overall in terms of near-end game dps/effectiveness as far as I can tell with using a mid-high setup and calculating results for better gearing (then again I'm no math wizard).
3. Chants with either os/chd at 2.5 or ias to hit 3.001 and the set offhand seems to be the clear winner in end game terms of dps/effectiveness.
I lost that skull grasp bid, so looking over my gear and taking into consideration what you said about being able to go a bit lower on ar and armour with 3.001 aps, I went ahead and just hit that mark.
I think that already having a solid 1.76 chats weapon kinda made that choice easier, lol.
BTW, can you link "scott's calculator" you mentioned in the other thread for figuring out some of this math? I would really appreciate that.
So now, Im sitting at the following:
paper dps 111752.57 ( i know you recommend 200k dps for mp10)
ar 575 - 661
dodge at 20%
armour at 4670 (60.89% mitigation)
missle damage reduction at 4%
melee damage reduction at 5%
51% crit (no other modifiers)
4% increased damage vs elites
Im confused about this one, but 509% bonus exp without hellfire/leorics/os on helm (never paid attention to this stat, but that seems high for not gearing towards it.
I currently run with full pug groups in mp10 - when I want to solo I just use the bf's DH in mp3 as it kicks a little more butt with more speed then I can come up with on Tinkerbell.
I think (other than the ar, which I'm on the fence about needing more), that I'm gtg on mp10.
Does that sound right, or do you think that with the lower dps, even hitting 3.01 aps, that im still under-geared for top mp?
Edited by Tinkerbell#1915 on 3/21/2013 9:54 AM PDT
2 easy upgrades that i see for you. 70+AR lacunis. Those have to be really (relatively) cheap nowadays with 3.5 CC. I have some similar ones that I wear for ubers and only go for a few million (i really don't care that they are low AR, i mostly just need them for the AS....and I don't do too many ubers nowadays). The second it the boots. OK, rethinking it, may've its not an easyupgrade. But, I'd really try to get INT/VIT boots....play around with the numbers until something is reasonable...or watch the bids or try to snipe one cheap (I got mine for 20M....dumb luck).
Its Steve's Simulator: http://d3cmww.com/ ; http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7709121181?page=1
You can change variables with CC and attack speed...and see where the freeze strength and CM procs change. I'm not sure which one you should pay more attention to....I kinda eyeballed an average between the two for comparison. Both of them relate to freezing..
Keep http://d3up.com/ in mind. Its great for planning gear changes. And watching the EHP number is better for looking at your overall mitigation than just armor and all res alone. It also gives you "Total Damage Reduction" which is interesting to watch. if you can get to 90% then that's pretty godly. You should be looking to get yours above 88% and your EHP over 300k (getting to 400k (or 500K with dodge) if pretty godly). Those are just numbers to shoot for. eventually. or probably never. I'm at 88% and 345k respectively.
Edited by PieHole#1628 on 3/21/2013 10:14 AM PDT
Yeah I have seen the thread, thanks for the link!
I'm currently at >2.73 APS and 54.5% CC with my actual gear, so technically speaking, I shouldn't have issues freeze-locking (stutter lock) ubers with these stats? Its frustrating at times because Kulle would just tele out of my freeze, and I can hardly lock down SK and Maghda. He'd be walking all over me, literally. Lol.
Great thread! I just hit 60 (+1) with my wizzy and had no clue about skills or gear. I got bored and solo'd to 60 in 16 hours. After reading your thread I dropped a few mil on some new gear.
I was able to fall into your mid-level gearing fairly cheap (35m) instead of your estimated 200m.
The only thing I fall short on is the armor and AR.
Can you give me a couple upgrade suggestions?
A big thank you to Pie for helping me out last night.
He took the time to crunch some numbers and even found some great deals on the gear I needed on the AH. (I scored those blackthornes for 1.5 Mill) :)
This guy's a class act, and a great contributor to the community.
I doubt I'd even be playing anymore if the guide hadn't helped me find out how fun the Wizard can still be.
Someone should buy this guy a beer!
Is it possible to use life steal instead of LOH? Would a 2.5% life steal weapon or better (3.0%) be equivalent to 1000 LOH? Reason being I want to heavily invest in a single weapon that I can use for both Archon and SNS. Target is MP6+ farm.
Edited by Dragonwing#2971 on 3/22/2013 6:44 AM PDT
Thanks for the comments Afx! A Guiness would be nice about right now...but I'm stuck at work!
Nice steel with those pants! It's amazing what you can get find sometimes when an auction ends in the middle of the night. Put out a bunch of bids, go to bed, wake up in the morning, and see what you've caught! Sometimes nothing,....sometimes pants like those!
I still reread this guide when I'm feeling hemmed in by gear. You know, when you sit there staring at the char sheet thinking "but if I give up X here, gain Y there, but oh shiz no that means...". Also @pie yours is one of the profiles I keep an eye on since we seem to be at somewhat similar level.
Just crafted a beastly ammy first thing this am. +12K dps, -2k HP, no change in mit.
@pie please add me in game worloega#1821 for some potential business
Hey Pie, was wondering if you could do me a favor and give me a price range for what you would pay for the Tal's chest on my main Wiz right now. Picked it up recently, wanted to see if I overpaid or got a deal. Also, any advice for SNS build based on current items I have equiped. Just don't go to hard on me. It's a work in progress. Thanks.
Hey Void. I've seen a few people doing that recently, but have no experience myself. Mind writing up a few sentences about what type of dagger (LS, LoH? and source) that you'd use with this type of setup. I'll just cut and paste it into the "advanced" section.
Hey Pie, these are the gear choices
MH dagger. 9+ias with cd/os/ls must be BLACK
OH Chant force Why not Trium? because a high end chant force with apoc will out dps a high end trium with apoc in this build.( The avg dmg goes into the other elemental bonues)
Helm SC. 8% lighting dmg and 4% elite is no kidding. also 350+loh for windup period.(Ok, I admit its for apoc)
Shoulders VW or better
Amulet talrahsas. trifecta with 6% elemental bonus
Chest talrasha. ar/armor/hopefully 9ias
Gloves. Int ar trifecta rare
Bracers. Lacuni. Int vit ar cc
Belt WH. int vit armor or str ar
Ring1 zuni pox trifecta
Ring2 Rare ring trifecta, as gg as possible
Pants Rare pants. High int/vit/ar/armor/double socket
Boots Zuni. 8% ele bonus
as Void said on the other place you posted the question:
"for any dps lower then 250k, ls will not benefit. Over 300k and ls rules. I have tested both out"
That was going to be my advice as well, but I have no personal experience. LoH hit works so well because it tics with each twister. And each twister ticks 36 times over 6 seconds (at 2.73AS) and you have over 10 twister out at any given time at full windup....and each one of those ticks procs LoH. That's why it works so well, and why you get more LoH return each time you move up a breakpoint.
I was able to fall into your mid-level gearing fairly cheap (35m) instead of your estimated 200m.
Well, then you didn't hit the mid-level gearing marks! All joking aside, you will need to spend more to hit those marks. 200M? Its so hard to keep up gold values in these guides when after a month the AH values have changed. So I actually try to not put values in there exactly for that reason. Probably 100M is more reasonable.
You have a pretty darned good setup for being a P1 wiz. Looks like you actually read the guide and have a good grasp of what you're doing. Like you said, you could use a little more armor and all res....and your cc is a little low as well. Congrats! Not exactly how I'd do it, but not that far off the mark either. Not everyone needs to fall into the cookie cutter mold, its just certain things work better than others most of the time...for a variety of reasons.
And one of those is Nats set. its almost a no brainer to do the set. The boots come with ~600 armor and ~75 all res...and with a ring with 60 all res (to replace your left ring) that's a huge bump in both AR (130) and Armor (150) for you..as well as a 2.5 CC boost with the set. If you get 80 INT on both you'll minimize the loss of INT. You'll definitely take a hit with VIT....maybe you can make some of that up on the ring...but not all of it. i think its a good tradeoff. It also allows you to have enough CC without needing CC on your lacunis.
If you want a huge VIT sink, you could try 250+ VIT Blackthorn pants. I also would like to see VIT on your lacunis.....50INT/50VIT are usually pretty affordable....even with 65+ AR. You can also gear around BT pants that are 40+ AR/600 AR. A guy I was helping last night found some on auction for 1.5M. WOW! But those can usually be had for between 10M and 20M.
Something Boozor and I actaully advocate for entry level builds is Zuni Chest. You can get a really affordable one (less than 15M) with 700 armor, 150+ INT, and 150+ VIT (and the native 70+ AR)). You'd get a 130 INT bonus, which would take the some of the sting out of losing the CD on your ammy, since you'd need to get one with IAS instead to keep the breakpoint. (Ammy: 8 IAS, 8 CC, 60+ AR, some int, vit). That, with lacunis that have 3 CC and 65+ AR would also put you in a place with more AR and CC.
Couple of things to think about....and different ways to go.
Edited by PieHole#1628 on 3/22/2013 9:15 AM PDT
The ubers can certainly be tricky....and it takes alot of subtly microing to make it look easy. One thing I do is run at 3.01....and sometimes use cold snap on top of that. I'd really like to not see them move...and that obviously helps. I know, its not for everyone. But you can use Cold snap at 2.73 and that will help.
You really want to micro the SB/Kule situation so that they are on top of each other so your twister can proc off of both of them at the same time.
To micro it, get them frozen like this as quickly as you can:
And ever so slightly back off on Kule until SB unfreezes. He'll walk toward you and Kule and be frozen again, but tighter together:
This way, you can just put your twisters inbetween the two, and they will each proc twice....FN will cool down quicker, and the freeze will be better. Also, since SB is far away from you, he can't pick you up. If one of your friends get picked up, just slowly back off again until SB unfrezes and puts your friend down...then move in slightly again to freeze them both.
Edited by PieHole#1628 on 3/26/2013 10:10 AM PDT
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