Diablo® III

Life after 100k DPS...

03/13/2013 08:10 PMPosted by skywalkerfx
Widowmaker spider/Bears

I vouch for the fun-ness of this build.

I also vouch for the flexibility of WD as a class. Barb was my primary for the longest time, and the builds are so locked in that there are only about 3 viable builds and a small selection of viable Runes. With WD you can mess around and your build is still likely to be pretty powerful (and fun).
Reply Quote
Sky, theRisen, and any other heavy dps posters -

What builds have you gone through in your time? Or at least, what were you using prior to what you're running now, and why'd you switch? I'm talking major build changes, but feel free to discuss tweaks as well.

My last major build change was from Rain Doc to Bears Doc... I have evolved my Bears build gradually to where it is now.

Why did I make the change? I added Bears to my Rain build and really liked the extra damage. My Rain Doc had well over 2k LoH and no LS, so I wasn't getting any life back with bears. I would often kill myself on reflect before realizing the affix was present. So I swapped out LoH Skorn for LS Skorn and went full-on Bears.

Rain build was very viable, but can't compare to the damage I do now.

The last significant tweak I made was dropping SV passive and settling on SA/GI/GF even at high MP levels. Many on my friends list do so much damage now (compared with say 4-5 months ago) that MP9-10 kill speed can be like MP2-3 used to be (fast killing is required for the passives I have to work well). I used to run with GI for low MP speed/paragon farming to reduce cooldowns on movement speed skills.... now (high MP in group) GI cooldown reduction lets me use Slam Dance/Paranoia with very good frequency. Needless to say, having 50% damage bonus (applied to all group members) on pretty much every elite group can speed up high-mp farming quite a bit :)

Currently, my skill selection/passives are tuned for maximum possible damage (other than working in PtV passive which I have never been able to do without running out of mana too often).
Edited by BigRed#1100 on 3/14/2013 10:56 AM PDT
Reply Quote
Excellent, thanks for explaining some of your background and build decisions everyone. I personally find that level of detail very useful and interesting. It's always neat to know what someone's running today, but to it's really cool to know what they were running last month and why they changed. It helps speed up my own build evolution I know.

Skyfx, I'll go widowbears and see how it rolls. It was a good time with Well of Souls, but maybe it's time to give it up again (and sell back the WoS mojo I snagged...). I tried something similar last night but was too aggressive imbalanced - was mixing in some angry chicken and manitou, I thought that would work better but it was fun at least. I'll probably start with something other than PtV, likely just SA but it's not the most exciting passive...why not VQ instead?

Also, good point about reduced CC for proctor - I almost forgot about that! That's not a very good feeling now is it, to have your expensive proc gear get less useful at high mp?

Last, would anyone mind looking at my shoulders and gloves - how decent are those for self-crafted? How hard should I push to make those better? Each gave me a 5k dps upgrade at the time of crafting...spent about 2M so far to get the results I'm wearing (and a few crappy ammies).

Thanks again everyone, keep up the awesome voodoo!
Reply Quote
Shoulders are a great spot for you to get All Resist and/or Armor. I got my WD shoulders with maybe 10-15 crafts. Depending on the build you go with, you will likely favor Crit Damage on the gloves rather than the attack speed.
-my $.02
Reply Quote
03/14/2013 11:58 AMPosted by Rookfire
Last, would anyone mind looking at my shoulders and gloves - how decent are those for self-crafted?

They are decent, but I would keep crafting gloves. While attack speed isn't "bad", IMO you should only get it on gloves after you already have high cc, cd and int. For example, I would rather have gloves with 10cc and 45cd.

It is very hard to beat a high CC Tal Rasha's Allegiance via crafting, but yours doesn't have CC, so it shouldn't be too hard for you to upgrade. My 2c is to keep crafting gloves/ammy. TBH, I'm not a big fan of crafted shoulders vs. Vile Ward.
Reply Quote
Posts: 2,184
View profile
03/14/2013 11:58 AMPosted by Rookfire
I'll probably start with something other than PtV, likely just SA but it's not the most exciting passive...why not VQ instead?

If you are talking about my old build feel free to try different mana passives. You can calculate which is best, but play style has a lot to do with it e.g. VQ bugs me because you have to consciously cast spiders to keep it up.
BR at the time didn't seem to fit my play style either. But now I prefer BR to SA or VQ. But take the one or two you are most comfortable with and use them.
Reply Quote
Posts: 2,184
View profile
03/14/2013 03:59 PMPosted by BigRed
TBH, I'm not a big fan of crafted shoulders vs. Vile Ward.

Vile ward is tough to beat. I have tried at least 40 times to beat mine which are 200 int, 87 Vit, 79 allres, 304 life regen, and 4.4% chill (I'm not so worried about keeping the chill).

These don't seem so special, but they are very balanced, and I have not rolled anything near these stats. I wonder what the mathematical probability is to roll something near these?

The best I have done is about 270 int, with 4000 more HP, but no allres, life regen, nor +armor. Bah!
Reply Quote
Vile Ward is much more likely to be good. The crafted shoulders are required to roll with +vit, +armor, and +all resists to even be compared, much less life regen.

Without +armor and +all resists... how can you even compare the two? Vile Ward is way better. I'd rather just get vile ward and then get gloves with +int, +crit chance, +crit damage, sacrificing all defensive specs even, unless they magically appear thanks to the RNG gods. I get a better trade off there.
Reply Quote
Okay gang, some updates and plans! Thank you, as always, for your thoughtful input.

I played for a bit last night using the build I have up at the moment. So let's talk Zombie Bears. Yeah...they're the best. There's really no alternative ;) My issue with them was that I used them to level to 60 (with poison dart) right when the game came out. Some might say...I was using them back when they "sucked." And I loved it! But then I wanted to move on to something else. And lo and behold, down the line they fixed some of their pathing issues, and maybe some other tweaks? Regardless, to wield the power of the undead bears once again...it's like hanging out with a best friend you haven't seen in a while but who got really buff and tan and has a super hot girlfriend now.

Looks like I've got to chuck my Thing of the Deep :(

Shoulders - I miss the protection and fringe benefits. I'm putting my Vile Wards back on, though I'll lose 4500 dps AND 4500 health IIRC. I made another 10 last night without getting anything resembling a hint of useful, so I think I'll just take a break on those for now. And focus on CC elsewhere. Thanks MCP and Sky, give me confidence here. (sky, I think your VW's are special!) Bonefish, your crafteds are insane btw - can we all agree on that?

Gloves - Made 6 more, nothing close, but will keep working here. I guess this actually means I'm going to start salvaging my rares now instead of vendoring them! Def need to take off the AS, at least for now while I'm ramping up those zombie bears. I may switch back to my +313 int 9.5 CC gloves.

Neck - I've crafted about 10 in total, really nice INT and even LoH but no nice dps affixes yet. I may keep crafting here as well, per your advice BigRed.

Question - Life on Hit. I know I need more CC - should I sacrifice any/all of my LoH gear in pursuit of this? I still use Acid Rain (blobs), so that gets some procs - but from what I've read, spiders and bears are terrible at proccing? It's been nice to have ~1000 LoH, but maybe it's not actually doing that much for me anymore.

Goals - I've decided to play through the game again on MP5. It's a level that's slightly uncomfortable for me survivability-wise going solo, especially without a pet (I tried, I failed). So I went back to dogs, Leeching Beast...is Life Link better? Also, hence the JF for the moment. But - do I choose that, or a mana passive?!

Mana passives - I get one extra cast from SA over BR (13 to 12) during a hold-down-bears-spam, so I'm assuming that's just from the extra max mana. Regen seems similar. I really like the idea of VQ again though, since I'm using mana-spiders anyway, why not double their utility? It just seems like a better synergy, but I'll mess with it. One cast every 5 seconds isn't so bad right...

Last note - I switched from being a longtime Jaunter to Honored Guest. Wow, look at all that mana! Annoying to pop out a second 'early', but an emergency need-mana-now-button seems like it will help survival more in the end than just additional time in the spirit realm...

Thanks again for your time - please help me get all squared away and ready for this full solo MP5 run and then I'll get back to the forum with results and tweaks.
Reply Quote
Posts: 2,184
View profile
Ok let's talk AC and LoH. If you want to spam AC three times then lob blob is the way to go. If you want to just cast it out to renew LoH, then I would use slow burn, or acid rain.
Whether or not you keep LoH at 1000, you will just have to paly with that. As you said, bears and spiders do not proc it often.

Dogs - I think life link is better. They eat more damage then they will ever make you health with life leech.

Mana passives and JF - OK so you will always run out of mana sometime. The way to know if you have enough mana or not is if you can usually take out one member of an elite pack, before your bears dry up.
So then you retreat, or stay where you are and spam spiders or go into Spirit Walk and continuing spamming bears. Collect health globes during fights to buff GF and to reclaim mana. Throw AC when monsters are approaching you, to proc LoH, or when you stop to spam bears.

If you can bear down one elite of an elite pack, before your bears dry up, you are in a pretty good mana place and then you can use JF to harden up. If not you may need to use two mana passives or drop an MP level. Or you could dump some attack speed from your weapon (new or different slower weapon) or dump some from your gear (which in your case doesn't seem like an option).

Hope that answered your questions.
Reply Quote
your knife is very nice, but you really would be better off if it had lifesteal. If you end up getting a weapon without black damage then a crafted ammy might not be too hard to beat tal's. You could also consider crafting some bracers and switching to innas pants. Your Wd looks good.
Reply Quote
Hey WD gang -

Just a quick update: I've poked my way up to 140k dps, 260 ehp (40k life). This is one of the first times I've even really looked at ehp that hard - how does my ratio look?

What maximum MP-level do you think this character is capable of for public play?

I still need to get crit chance on the ammy and zpox - which will be hyper expensive of course. Other than that, I imagine I should be jacking my int and all resist at this point...

Any upgrade tips? I need to keep crafting gloves until I find CD+CC. But as far as the AH, it's a bit overwhelming to take it to a more expensive level for most of my gear - purchases become higher risk, and gold can evaporate quicker. I don't know where to start. I have ~20M for upgrades, but have a ~50M ring pending I could wait on.

Build is basically what I run, depending on multi or solo. JF should be VQ actually though, whereas when I do use JF I couple it with the Life Link dogs for synergy. (I know VQ isn't what it used to be, but it does mean infinite zombie bears for me on MP5 at least).

As always, thanks for your help!
Edited by Rookfire#1611 on 3/25/2013 10:17 AM PDT
Reply Quote
I was originally one of the poison dart/attack speed WDs "back in the day" and then moved on to a sac build (without 0 dogs gear, worked quite well actually) and over to an acid rain/rot build(JF/BM) and now I'm using bears. I finally got to 120k dps the other day and it's pretty awesome!

I've been trying the crafting thing but I obviously have the same luck I do with legendaries and find I've not been able to get any good crafts yet.

I would like to get a better weapon but that will require a lot more gold, sitting at 9m so hoping for a good drop soon lol.

Nice WD, keep it up!
Reply Quote
Posts: 2,184
View profile
Rookfire -

I think the main thing holding you back is life steal on your weapon. With your DPS, you should be soloing MP7. However without LS, this would be extremely difficult for you.

While you have 400+ LoH on your pants, this will not be enough to push you into higher MPs.

EHP is mainly driven buy all resist, armor, and HP. If you try to keep your levels at or above 700 resists in inventory, 4000 armor, 40K-50K HP -- you should be fine. Use an EHP calculator like D3up.com to see your EHP stats if you want to see how it breaks out.

Your main goal should be your weapon. While it is possible not to have life steal and use bears, that type of play style is best left to those with a lot of experience that like to experiment.
Edited by skywalkerfx#1247 on 3/26/2013 5:12 AM PDT
Reply Quote
Thanks Sky, makes a lot of sense. I'm really really wary of the DPS hit on forking over for a LS weapon. I know I can't compromise on an open socket - so out of the Int, mana regen, base damage, 'black'ness of the damage type, and base CD% on the weapon I have now, which should I be most willing to budge on / leave out of an AH session?

Snagged a better Witching Hour...I did lose 300 regen/sec though, but I assume LS >> regen anyway.

My next goals then are 150k dps, 50k health, 700 AR, 4k armor, and a lifesteal weapon.

So that's roughly +7k dps, +6k health, + 200 AR, +1k armor, and the LS. Any guesses on how much gold that's going to take?

For example, I'm considering selling all my gems except the emerald to fund better base gear, then just start over with the topaz slots.

Thanks again for your thoughts! I'm getting into the nitty gritty here, I know ;)
Reply Quote
Posts: 2,184
View profile
There is no one best thing to give up on weapon. DPS, int, CD%, and open socket (for more CD%) are the driving factors. These things are all regulated by the AS of the weapon.

So same DPS and less attack speed = more mana conservation because of less bears thrown to do same damage.

So a Manijuma knife = 1.4 AS, int, CD% go for as high of DPS as you can afford.

Manajuma knife with socket - potential of an additional 110% CD (100-150 less DPS possible)

Black damage weapon = 1.2 -1.4 AS (no higher) LS, int, CD%, as high DPs as you can afford

Black damage weapon with socket = 1.2 -1.3 AS - potential of an additional 110% CD (100-150 less DPS possible)

So above is 4 possibilities for you. Do some shopping with the gold you have and see what is available. If you want some help choosing different options, then post up what you are thinking about (you can drop int down or drop it off it it gives you more choices on the black weapons).
Reply Quote
Excellent detailed weapon-guide post, Sky. Thank you!

I'll do some gold work and get a pile ready for the weapon, then will post some choices if I don't snag something first based on time.

Lastly, I'm thinking of the switch from Lacuni's to Inna's (like you). Was that a hard choice for you, and how long have you been running like that?
Reply Quote
Posts: 2,184
View profile
I have been using the Inna's for about a week.

I tried to roll the bracers to see how hard it would be to get a decent roll. I think it only took 18 tries or so. Having rolled some decent bracers, I went Inna pants shopping and settled on the ones I have on because they were reasonably priced.

In all I gained about 15K DPS over Lacuni's + Blackthorne's, but I lost 7K HP even with the socketed amethysts. However, it is a big gold saving over the Lacuni approach.

So I would try rolling bracers. If and when you get some with good offensive and defensive stats, then get some Inna's and see how it works out.

Post up your weapon choices if you need help. GL shopping.
Edited by skywalkerfx#1247 on 3/26/2013 3:00 PM PDT
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Explain (256 characters max)