Diablo® III

Demon Hunter / mp6-mp10 = worthless

That's all well and good, and I'm totally capable of playing the fast kiting glass cannon play style. I'm not saying that it's impossible, it's just that it gets super tiring super fast. It's just too much physical effort compared to just sitting there and holding one button like a CM wiz.


I did say multiple times that it requires much more effort.


My point is that the facetank style is the only way to solo mp10 without your arms falling off after a couple hours. The ranged/glasscannon/highdps build works best in a party because you dont have to run around like a chicken with your head cut off. And I also think that those builds dont have enough extra dps to be worth the extra effort over a face tank build.


If you don't want to put forth the effort to achieve more edps, then thats fine, but don't go around saying facetank is the only viable way to play a DH just because you don't prefer the other way. That's a completely false statement. Stutter stepping is also not that tiring once you know how to do it well. you can set your mouse sensitivity pretty high and only maneuver your mouse close around your DH since you only really need to aim certain hatred spenders. Everything else is a simple button click or a click in the direction of the monsters. The issue is that it takes time to learn to do well and most people would rather not do that. The "arms falling off" is an excuse, as there many other games that requires more wrist involvement than this, yet there's no complaining....

Also, the builds are actually very effective edps wise for this type of play (I have about 4 of them that i constantly alter between). I am not expecting you to understand why because you don't play this style.
Edited by DiEoxidE#1987 on 3/13/2013 3:18 PM PDT
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"0.9 times per sec isnt possible. Base hatred generation is 4 per sec, with bat, DML and calamity you get +6.51, so 10.51 hatred per sec. At your aps (2.7) you can get off 2 shots before you fire a LFB so you gain another 8 hatred, so in total you only gain 18.51 hatred per sec. CA costs 50 hatred so there is a 31.49 hatred deficit per sec. Sorry but you are not firing off 0.9x LFB per sec, its not even close."

Wait, you are making some assumptions here. First, if you're running a CA build you should be using Grenadier and have ~10 hatred reduction also (quiver/jewelry) for a CA cost of ~30 hatred. You can have hatred regen from bat, templar, quiver, weapon, and chest. That gives you ~12 hatred regen per second. When I was running the build I had 30 cost cluster arrows with ~11.6 hatred regen. I was using Grenades with Tinkerer for 6 hatred per shot with 2.5 attacks per second for another ~15 hatred regen. So my hatred regen was ~26 per second with 30 cost CA. With that rate I could fire a CA approximately every 1.1-1.2 seconds which is pretty close to a CA every second.

I did that because I wanted to try it out, see how good it was. Unfortunately it wasn't as good as my spike traps EB build. Too bad, all that work to find out the build just isn't as efficient. I did think it was a little more fun though because I didn't have to worry about mobs actually being on my spike traps. I went back to Windforce and am just running mid level MP 4-7 because even though I can do MP8+ with Calamity or Windforce I find I just get the most enjoyment out of mid level MP with Windforce.
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You ignored the numbers I gave you.


Which numbers? Josef did some number crunching on EDPS between the 2 weapons, you can search for the thread(s) if you like to see numbers.


It matters quite a bit. For one, manticore is not a black weapon. Two, unless you have 10 bil sitting around, how you gear for your weapon is crucial to edps (not just paper dps). Also no you can't run the exact same buffs because you can never step nearly well enough with a manticore to take advantage of certain passives like you can a calamity, so yes, buffs does matter.


Look up ceteris paribus. If we assume that the other parts of your setup are of similar value then you dont gain any advantage with a calamity.

You lose massive EDPS if you need to kite, I dont even move away from arcane sentries or frozen bombs these days, I just smoke screen thru it.


Good catch. I had the wrong number listed next to this hatred spender on my lengthy index. Got it fixed now and its actually 1.59 for me. This is however, still not terrible for the most expensive hatred spender and the damage I'm doing when I launch it (in which you conveniently did not comment on).

I'm well aware that its not just barbs that can recover resources very quickly, they just happen to be the class that completely outshines all other classes. It doesn't matter if wiz/monks can do the same, they are not nearly as efficient as barbs and they don't "outperform" us per gold spent unless you play a Tank DH. They are simply easier to play. DH's don't need a buff in this category, though I know you're going to continue to feel different because of how you play your DH. This is fine, I have no issues agreeing to disagree.


Well that dmg isnt much to be honest, first of all you are not crit'ing that much all the time, thats your top end crit, your low end crit is very much lower because calamity has very low min dmg (686 on yours). A top end manticore with ruby/emerald would have roughly 50% higher avg dmg than your calamity and +110 crit dmg, you havent seen what a manticore can do if you think those crits are huge. In any case all these numbers pale in comparison to what a barb, wiz or monk can do. My archon wiz fully buffed can do 3.5m dps per sec, and I dont even have gear thats worth billions on my wiz.

Not sure about monks but wizards are perfectly capable of matching barbs in terms of farming efficiency, its DHs that are weak and in dire need of a buff, dont muddy the issue here. Its not about weapon choice, never has been.
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"0.9 times per sec isnt possible. Base hatred generation is 4 per sec, with bat, DML and calamity you get +6.51, so 10.51 hatred per sec. At your aps (2.7) you can get off 2 shots before you fire a LFB so you gain another 8 hatred, so in total you only gain 18.51 hatred per sec. CA costs 50 hatred so there is a 31.49 hatred deficit per sec. Sorry but you are not firing off 0.9x LFB per sec, its not even close."

Wait, you are making some assumptions here. First, if you're running a CA build you should be using Grenadier and have ~10 hatred reduction also (quiver/jewelry) for a CA cost of ~30 hatred. You can have hatred regen from bat, templar, quiver, weapon, and chest. That gives you ~12 hatred regen per second. When I was running the build I had 30 cost cluster arrows with ~11.6 hatred regen. I was using Grenades with Tinkerer for 6 hatred per shot with 2.5 attacks per second for another ~15 hatred regen. So my hatred regen was ~26 per second with 30 cost CA. With that rate I could fire a CA approximately every 1.1-1.2 seconds which is pretty close to a CA every second.

I did that because I wanted to try it out, see how good it was. Unfortunately it wasn't as good as my spike traps EB build. Too bad, all that work to find out the build just isn't as efficient. I did think it was a little more fun though because I didn't have to worry about mobs actually being on my spike traps. I went back to Windforce and am just running mid level MP 4-7 because even though I can do MP8+ with Calamity or Windforce I find I just get the most enjoyment out of mid level MP with Windforce.


I didnt assume anything, I'm just quoting directly from the horse's mouth. Dieoxide said he isnt running any -cost items or grenadier and he can fire CA 0.9x per sec. My math proved him wrong, end of story.
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You lose massive EDPS if you need to kite, I dont even move away from arcane sentries or frozen bombs these days, I just smoke screen thru it.


False. Stutter step is attacking and moving at attack speed. You can stutter step and dodge many affixes without losing EDPS. You may not be able to, but don't knock those who can. Check out our vid in flight's thread. I can sacrifice defensive needs because of this and can ultimately focus on EDPS.

Well that dmg isnt much to be honest, first of all you are not crit'ing that much all the time, thats your top end crit, your low end crit is very much lower because calamity has very low min dmg (686 on yours). A top end manticore with ruby/emerald would have roughly 50% higher avg dmg than your calamity and +110 crit dmg, you havent seen what a manticore can do if you think those crits are huge. In any case all these numbers pale in comparison to what a barb, wiz or monk can do. My archon wiz fully buffed can do 3.5m dps per sec, and I dont even have gear thats worth billions on my wiz.

Not sure about monks but wizards are perfectly capable of matching barbs in terms of farming efficiency, its DHs that are weak and in dire need of a buff, dont muddy the issue here. Its not about weapon choice, never has been.


Re-read my original reply to you. I stated that's my average crit damage, not my top end crit. I crit higher and lower than that.

Another thing to note is that my calamity is not top end. I also stated many times "per gold cost" as my gear total is roughly about 1 bil. The fact that I was achieving those numbers with a non top end calamity is really not bad at all and was simply stating those particular hatred spenders are not necessarily weak. Obviously the Manticore is going to initially hit harder, but that's not the point I was making.

You saying we pale in comparison per gold spent is an overstatement. My DH does on average 3.23 mil dps per second (averaging 26 seconds for mp 10 E kill) with as much gold invested in your wiz, which does 3.5 mil dps. That's 270k damage per second faster than me, which is faster by only a pretty small margin, not even close to being "terrible" or "unplayable" or "completely inefficient" claims I see here. Barbs are in a class of their own, and no, wizards are not on par with barbs on mp 10 for killing speed.

Anyways as I said before, I'm not against buffs and saying we don't need any. My focus was on our hatred regeneration being ok where it is now. I will retract my statement about weapon choice not mattering for resource regeneration when you can find me a wizard that can perma freeze with a skorn.
Edited by DiEoxidE#1987 on 3/13/2013 4:13 PM PDT
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Do as I did and switch to monk...easy transition
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I'm doing almost 100k dps less than you but I'm clearing mp6 stuff without much of a problem. I'm also using multi and cluster without vengeance. I never have hatred issues (thanks to 3 attack speed and MfD Mortal Enemy). You're thinking too offensively. You need to pick up some life on hit and swap some skills. Maybe even !*!%#%%* around with something faster than a manticore. I know it's the highest dps but those things are just painful to play with.

Personally, Cluster/Dazzle combined with Bola/thunderball saved DH for me. I was about to ditch my favorite class for my monk until I discovered that little combo. It's great in multiplayer games too, no one knows wtf is happening. Bosses can barely move. Stacking those stuns with WF knockback and stampede makes me feel pretty overpowered at times. But I'm sure it could be done just as well without a WF. Not many people want to take the dps hit to use it. I just can't stand the slow fire of a manticore and calamity &#^$ed up my MfD rune so it was the next best thing.

I had a manticore for a while. It was the most miserable and unfun time I've ever had in D3. PLUNK.....reload.....PLUNK.....

Couldn't regen hatred for $&^%.
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Well does your punishment build allow you to spam LFBs? With vengeance, 25disc would only allow you to fire 3 CAs, thats... nothing, so clearly its a resource generation problem. I see that you are trying to argue that LFB costs too much, but note that they are the same thing i.e DHs need better resource regen or lower skill cost to spam high power secondaries.

Yes WoL does more dmg than LFB but it also costs more resource, its a whopping 75 spirit, thats 50% of the default max spirit pool. I agree that WoL is mathematically more resource efficient but LFB has better range, so apples to oranges.


Well, you got calamity... no wonder.
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[quote] I will retract my statement about weapon choice not mattering for resource regeneration when you can find me a wizard that can perma freeze with a skorn.


LOL
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I would encourage those who feel like they don't have enough hatred to spend to try vengeance / nightstalker / grenadier (if running cluster arrows) and have cluster grenades and preparation punishment on your action bar. + disc gear to have enough to gloom and cast punishment one after another.

You can't gloom/SS/vault as much, but you can certainly spend that hatred.

If cluster arrows, pick up -cost to cluster arrow gear, ofc.

It deals less damage then spike traps, but you can bring your EHP down much lower because cluster arrows deals instant damage so no waiting around for the trap to go off to get the life steal (exception cluster bombs, which I highly recommend for MP9/10 if you can group with a tank).

Like others have mentioned, it is possible to raise hatred regeneration through the roof. I've been running this style for a few weeks and I regularly shoot 10-20 LfB cluster arrows in a row (depending on nightstalker procs) with no delay before I toss maybe a 2-4 grenades and just do it again. Legacy nat's help run the spec on the lower MPs, but on MP10, there is usually no shortage of targets to proc on.
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OP is right, about the resource. I'm surprised many people doesn't experience this yet.

What OP mean is that, the regeneration for resource is lacking at HIGH MP. Obviously at lower mp, this is not a problem as DH can slaughter most enemies before the need for regenerating resource. However, not in high mp where enemies just got much bulkier without substantial challenge to DH.

Hence high mp (6~10) only serve to slow DH farm speed and encourage the repetitive action of clicking at enemies.

I myself hunt at mp 5 and I found all the mobs to be easy, however the gold elite to be annoying (in terms of tankiness only).

What DH lack is reliable and high (single target) damage skills to deal with tanky enemies.
Obviously there are skills like Cluster Shot, etc which offer high damage, however the high resource cost, Cooldown, etc makes them not reliable (and also the fact that they consume a skill slot).

==========================
To explain the term "reliable":
-Let say for example: The skill cluster shot. I got 50% cc, and ~400% Crit dmg. 125 hatred.
Found an elite, shot it twice with Cluster Shot (100hatred), now for each shot, there is 50% chance for it to crit and 50% for it to fail on crit. On crit, the damage on each cluster shot is 1100%, but if it fail to crit, the damage will only be 275%.

With the high cost of cluster shot, now you have to wait for some time before you can shot another Cluster Shot.

Now for the battle, if you crit twice, it will be nice (The skill will serve it's worth for the cost of a skill slot and 50 hatred). The reverse is also true, now if you don't crit twice, you'll lament at fortune, and you'll need to wait for considerable period of time before you get another shot.

For 2 shot (100 hatred) with 50% cc, you can do the math by yourself for how many critical hit possibilities u can get. (25% to land double crit for 2200% damage total, 25% chance to land no critical hit for 550% damage total)

In this respect, Cluster shot is not reliable, since it can't produce the result you wanted when you need it. (it doesn't guarantee criticals against elite).

Do note also, cluster shot does not benefit from aspd increment due to the high resources, hence it does not correctly fit your dps. (not trifecta compatible, with some exception ofc)

-------------

-On the other hand, elemental arrow - Ball Lightning is reliable skill.

It got the same chance for critical, however the low cost of 10 hatred make it possible to be used multiple times in short period of time. In terms of will it crit or will it not crit, obviously in 10 shot (100 hatred) it has considerable chance for it to crit (and the odds for not landing a crit is very2 low) (In addition Ball Lightning can hit multiple times). Ball Lightning also benefit from aspd (making it trifecta compatible).

The only weakness is that, it deals just enough of damage. Hence is not a good choice for finishing tanky elites. (especially gold elites) And suffer in high MP.
==========================

Class like barb and Monk, does not suffer from this as they had reliable high damage skill.
Ex. Barb's HoTA - Smash (Trifecta compatible)

Hence often you see case where on the same mp same "single" enemy, a single barb/monk (let say 200k dps) deal equal damage compared to the combined damage of 3 DH/WD (let also say 200k dps each). (Assume all of them are spamming their best single target skill.)

DPS does not reflect true damage dealt due to skill potential

My advice to developer:
->to remake all the passive skills to more build specialize as well as introduce few new passives.
The skills for DH are nice, but when they are thrown to the metagame, most of them become useless due to lack of supporting factor to actually use them.
->On most skills, certain rune should be integrated to the skill as a whole.
Ex. Hungering arrow and it's Piercing arrow Rune, should be combined with the skill hungering arrow itself (In this case, it makes the other rune for Hungering arrow more reliable in nature).

==================================

Aside from that, to OP
-> Try replacing hungering arrow - scatter shot with Bola shot - Imminent Doom. Considering you're building Crit Damage and ASPD, I believe this will suit you more. For clearing mobs, Ball Lightning should be more than enough (as long as you play solo and on MP lower than 6).

Edit - Some details
Edit 2: Fix->Not resource regeneration, but resource cost
Edited by NuEloS#1547 on 3/13/2013 7:57 PM PDT
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03/13/2013 04:27 PMPosted by ScaryGary
Do as I did and switch to monk...easy transition


yep i did this aswell, helped alot since the gear is the same for the most part, enjoying monk 10x more
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Yes it does. The faster you attack, the more hatred you regen. The 1.3 hatred regen is a bonus.


The faster you attack, the more hatred you expend too, its a wash in the end. With calamity both your generators and spenders will deal less dmg than a manticore.


Paper damage, yes. EDPS no. It depends on how you gear around each weapon. Calamity also allows you to fire off more hatred spenders which in turn will be more efficient depending on the buffs you run.


What does the other pieces of your setup matter? Assuming you have all trifectas/quadfectas in all slots, a manticore would still do more dmg in the end because its more resource efficient. Since you talked about paper dmg well yea you can technically have higher paper dps with a calamity but since most of it is in speed, its possible to end up with less EDPS in the end. Its like trying to play an arcane orb spec with a chantodos will instead of a skorn or black spear + trium. IAS falsely inflates dps unless you are not resource constrained (like how a cm wiz isnt).

Also buffs have nothing to do with this. Both a calamity and manticore user can run the same buffs.



So the numbers I gave you above is terrible? Ok. With bat and calamity, I can churn out LFB at a rate of roughly 0.9 times a second. This is without using equipment to reduce its cost or the passive. That is slightly faster than bell spam WITH equipment geared for it. Like I said, hatred regeneration is not the issue, you simply chose it to be by using a manticore. The biggest difference in resource regeneration/management in comparison is that we have to work harder for ours to be effective. This does NOT mean that ours is bad. I'm all for wanting to help out the DH cause, but this area isn't where its needed.

Also, you can stop mentioning barbs. No class even comes close to what they can achieve. This is an overall design issue.


0.9 times per sec isnt possible. Base hatred generation is 4 per sec, with bat, DML and calamity you get +6.51, so 10.51 hatred per sec. At your aps (2.7) you can get off 2 shots before you fire a LFB so you gain another 8 hatred, so in total you only gain 18.51 hatred per sec. CA costs 50 hatred so there is a 31.49 hatred deficit per sec. Sorry but you are not firing off 0.9x LFB per sec, its not even close.

Its not just barbs that are capable of recovering resources quickly, wizards and to a lesser extent, monks can do this very well too.

Clearly DHs have a resource generation problem, using a faster weapon will not ameliorate the situation, it will only mask it (and probably make it worse).


Get a good calamity, and you'll soon understand why their price is over the top. "Base ASPD" plays more factor than you think.
Edited by NuEloS#1547 on 3/13/2013 6:04 PM PDT
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More Hatred regen isn't necessary, instead most skills need a lower Hatred cost.

Also, the cooldown on Sentries just need to be flat out removed. And Nightstalker should also reduce the cooldown on skills by 1 second per crit to INCLUDE Smokescreen.

Jagged Spikes needs a proc coefficient. Or it shouldn't benefit from life steal and reflect damage back either.

Blast radius on Cluster Arrows need to increase.

Sticky Trap needs a radius that is larger than Volatile Explosives(20 yards), and needs to be based on a % of max health of what was tagged. 400% or so weapon damage is a slap to the face of the skill. Lightning Rod needs a larger trigger radius and should go off twice per cast, 4 times with Custom Engineering.

Marked for Death needs Natural "Contagion" and the Rune for Contagion could work similar to how Nightstalker works but on the target.

Prep Punishment rune should enlarge your Hatred pool by 50% its current amount and stack up to 3 times for 30 seconds. So you essentially "prepare" yourself with hatred between engagements and unload. Making Vengeance more desirable as well(since it would benefit from the 50% stacks).

I even thought about a change to Prep Invigorate that would allow us to swap resource pools(hatred becomes discipline and vice versa) for 30 seconds or something at the cost of Discipline regen removal during that time(Nightstalker NOT Included). That would completely change the game and remove emphasis on Legacy Nat's, and allow for some Vault and Caltrop aggressive playing styles(with Jagged Spikes proc returning).
Edited by ActionKungfu#1184 on 3/13/2013 6:20 PM PDT
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Effective damage??? on a DH it's mostly one or two attacks at a time and there is usally a cost.. MONKS/barbs/wiz can use 3 to 5 attacks skills all at the same time.. So a 100k dps barb/wiz does way more Effecitive damage then a DH ..

If anyone thinks this will make a DH too powerful.. check this comparison...

Bola thunder stuns one mob and we spike trap ( okay .. good) versus Wiz freezes all surrounding mobs - explosive blast/wicked wind/ meteor / diamonds skin ( and 1/2 second later repeat unlimited - they get cool downs erased / max arcane/ and 3 attacks skills ) DH is not in the same league...


You're grossly overestimating wizards. A CM/meteor wizard with 100k dps is 1000000x more expensive than a DH with 100k dps. Seriously, you can get a DH to 100k dps from vendor trash and brimstones... try getting your CM wiz anywhere that kind of DPS while meeting the gear requirements.

In CM mode, my wizard has 150k DPS with a total gear value over 1 billion, and it's not even enough to run meteors. It might be also be worth noting that wizards were incorrectly getting double resources from a 1.07 bug that just got hotfixed in 1.07a, so you might want to give your wizard another run if you think you can just spam all that "unlimited". :p

I might also add that just because wizards "can" farm MP10, doesn't mean we should or that it's in any way more efficient spamming till your fingers bleed, as opposed to comfortable farming lower MPs FAST (with much higher DPS). I actually don't farm with CM wiz (I use only for ubers), I generally do either a 2H spectral blade/blizzard build, or a chanelling build, or an archon build, because I feel I kill more efficiently and get better drops.

But without going the CM route, my wizard is no better than a DH, and lack the mobility of DHs with awesome skills like strafe, vault/tumble, tactical advantage...

Imho, only OP (in PvE anyway) class is barb, others are pretty well-balanced, and have their strengths and weaknesses.
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Effective damage??? on a DH it's mostly one or two attacks at a time and there is usally a cost.. MONKS/barbs/wiz can use 3 to 5 attacks skills all at the same time.. So a 100k dps barb/wiz does way more Effecitive damage then a DH ..

If anyone thinks this will make a DH too powerful.. check this comparison...

Bola thunder stuns one mob and we spike trap ( okay .. good) versus Wiz freezes all surrounding mobs - explosive blast/wicked wind/ meteor / diamonds skin ( and 1/2 second later repeat unlimited - they get cool downs erased / max arcane/ and 3 attacks skills ) DH is not in the same league...


You're grossly overestimating wizards. A CM/meteor wizard with 100k dps is 1000000x more expensive than a DH with 100k dps. Seriously, you can get a DH to 100k dps from vendor trash and brimstones... try getting your CM wiz anywhere that kind of DPS while meeting the gear requirements.

In CM mode, my wizard has 150k DPS with a total gear value over 1 billion, and it's not even enough to run meteors. It might be also be worth noting that wizards were incorrectly getting double resources from a 1.07 bug that just got hotfixed in 1.07a, so you might want to give your wizard another run if you think you can just spam all that "unlimited". :p

I might also add that just because wizards "can" farm MP10, doesn't mean we should or that it's in any way more efficient spamming till your fingers bleed, as opposed to comfortable farming lower MPs FAST (with much higher DPS). I actually don't farm with CM wiz (I use only for ubers), I generally do either a 2H spectral blade/blizzard build, or a chanelling build, or an archon build, because I feel I kill more efficiently and get better drops.

But without going the CM route, my wizard is no better than a DH, and lack the mobility of DHs with awesome skills like strafe, vault/tumble, tactical advantage...

Imho, only OP (in PvE anyway) class is barb, others are pretty well-balanced, and have their strengths and weaknesses.


you do realize a 100k dps wizard does the effective DPS of a 200k + DPS DH by a long shot right? Thats one fo the BIGGEST issues this class has, our effective DPS is horribly underpowered compared to our sheet dps. a 200k DPS barb or monk or wiz will out dps a 400k DH most of the time lol

too many people from other classes think were op cuz our sheet dps is huge but all other classes can do our actual in game dps with HALF the sheet dps. Its pretty sad really nut most people wont know until they gear several classes to a high enough degree and see the HUGE differences and especially how bad DH are in their current state when compared to the rest when dealing with high mp's..
Edited by METATRON#1945 on 3/13/2013 7:17 PM PDT
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My experience is mostly agree with urs.
While I have a LS skorn, I haven't tried 2H spectral blade/blizzard build/chanelling /archon build. I think I will try next. Well, when you say barb is OP in PvE, why dont u simply use that?!

So, my barb is my "goto" character for mp 10 farming.
My cm wiz and WD are best for co-op farming/uber games.
For low mp, I use my DH and monk (TR monk runs fast!).

I have just seen DH Sever build....has anyone tried that on co-op mp 10?

Anyway, I am not expecting much from Bliz. in making all classes equal.
In fact, they will be never be.


Effective damage??? on a DH it's mostly one or two attacks at a time and there is usally a cost.. MONKS/barbs/wiz can use 3 to 5 attacks skills all at the same time.. So a 100k dps barb/wiz does way more Effecitive damage then a DH ..

If anyone thinks this will make a DH too powerful.. check this comparison...

Bola thunder stuns one mob and we spike trap ( okay .. good) versus Wiz freezes all surrounding mobs - explosive blast/wicked wind/ meteor / diamonds skin ( and 1/2 second later repeat unlimited - they get cool downs erased / max arcane/ and 3 attacks skills ) DH is not in the same league...


You're grossly overestimating wizards. A CM/meteor wizard with 100k dps is 1000000x more expensive than a DH with 100k dps. Seriously, you can get a DH to 100k dps from vendor trash and brimstones... try getting your CM wiz anywhere that kind of DPS while meeting the gear requirements.

In CM mode, my wizard has 150k DPS with a total gear value over 1 billion, and it's not even enough to run meteors. It might be also be worth noting that wizards were incorrectly getting double resources from a 1.07 bug that just got hotfixed in 1.07a, so you might want to give your wizard another run if you think you can just spam all that "unlimited". :p

I might also add that just because wizards "can" farm MP10, doesn't mean we should or that it's in any way more efficient spamming till your fingers bleed, as opposed to comfortable farming lower MPs FAST (with much higher DPS). I actually don't farm with CM wiz (I use only for ubers), I generally do either a 2H spectral blade/blizzard build, or a chanelling build, or an archon build, because I feel I kill more efficiently and get better drops.

But without going the CM route, my wizard is no better than a DH, and lack the mobility of DHs with awesome skills like strafe, vault/tumble, tactical advantage...

Imho, only OP (in PvE anyway) class is barb, others are pretty well-balanced, and have their strengths and weaknesses.
Edited by Luffy#1946 on 3/13/2013 7:09 PM PDT
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More Hatred regen isn't necessary, instead most skills need a lower Hatred cost.

Also, the cooldown on Sentries just need to be flat out removed. And Nightstalker should also reduce the cooldown on skills by 1 second per crit to INCLUDE Smokescreen.

Jagged Spikes needs a proc coefficient. Or it shouldn't benefit from life steal and reflect damage back either.

Blast radius on Cluster Arrows need to increase.

Sticky Trap needs a radius that is larger than Volatile Explosives(20 yards), and needs to be based on a % of max health of what was tagged. 400% or so weapon damage is a slap to the face of the skill. Lightning Rod needs a larger trigger radius and should go off twice per cast, 4 times with Custom Engineering.

Marked for Death needs Natural "Contagion" and the Rune for Contagion could work similar to how Nightstalker works but on the target.

Prep Punishment rune should enlarge your Hatred pool by 50% its current amount and stack up to 3 times for 30 seconds. So you essentially "prepare" yourself with hatred between engagements and unload. Making Vengeance more desirable as well(since it would benefit from the 50% stacks).

I even thought about a change to Prep Invigorate that would allow us to swap resource pools(hatred becomes discipline and vice versa) for 30 seconds or something at the cost of Discipline regen removal during that time(Nightstalker NOT Included). That would completely change the game and remove emphasis on Legacy Nat's, and allow for some Vault and Caltrop aggressive playing styles(with Jagged Spikes proc returning).


I actually like all of these suggestions.
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I can kite, I can tank, I can stutterstep, I'm virtually unkillable and gloom is just a bonus from god. I can play any MP level without a problem. I've played with hundreds of different players and most of them suck. The vast majority of barbs, wizards, monks, witch doctors and demon hunters suck. Am I the fastest? No, I'm positive I'm not the fastest but I'm faster than most.

If you can play as a different class faster than you can as a demon hunter then maybe you should just play that other class. While a bunch of you claim to like playing the demon hunter, it doesn't sound like it. It sounds like your mad because your skill level as a glass cannon doesn't match your ego. I spent a billion gold on offensive gear and I can't kill fast enough because I have to use my traps to stay alive and lfb costs to much to spam. Whine, whine, whine.

They are finally leaving the demon hunter alone, this is a good thing. While I wouldn't be against un-nerfing some skills like caltraps, buffing resource regeneration isn't needed. Buffing our resource regeneration will just lead to more nerfs down the road.
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