Diablo® III

Demon Hunter / mp6-mp10 = worthless

I can kite, I can tank, I can stutterstep, I'm virtually unkillable and gloom is just a bonus from god. I can play any MP level without a problem. I've played with hundreds of different players and most of them suck. The vast majority of barbs, wizards, monks, witch doctors and demon hunters suck. Am I the fastest? No, I'm positive I'm not the fastest but I'm faster than most.

If you can play as a different class faster than you can as a demon hunter then maybe you should just play that other class. While a bunch of you claim to like playing the demon hunter, it doesn't sound like it. It sounds like your mad because your skill level as a glass cannon doesn't match your ego. I spent a billion gold on offensive gear and I can't kill fast enough because I have to use my traps to stay alive and lfb costs to much to spam. Whine, whine, whine.

They are finally leaving the demon hunter alone, this is a good thing. While I wouldn't be against un-nerfing some skills like caltraps, buffing resource regeneration isn't needed. Buffing our resource regeneration will just lead to more nerfs down the road.


you do realize theres plenty of DH that have been playing since launch and are very good and very well geared agree that DH is lacking and in need of some buffing right? Dont come in here with your big ego, you havnt even played the other classes enough to even know what the gripes are.
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03/13/2013 06:53 PMPosted by Risen
Also dh could use reduced dicipline costs.


I don't think so.

And someone said about class equality.. It's downright impossible, and in fact I don't think that is what DH player should ask for.
Edited by NuEloS#1547 on 3/13/2013 8:03 PM PDT
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I can kite, I can tank, I can stutterstep, I'm virtually unkillable and gloom is just a bonus from god. I can play any MP level without a problem. I've played with hundreds of different players and most of them suck. The vast majority of barbs, wizards, monks, witch doctors and demon hunters suck. Am I the fastest? No, I'm positive I'm not the fastest but I'm faster than most.

If you can play as a different class faster than you can as a demon hunter then maybe you should just play that other class. While a bunch of you claim to like playing the demon hunter, it doesn't sound like it. It sounds like your mad because your skill level as a glass cannon doesn't match your ego. I spent a billion gold on offensive gear and I can't kill fast enough because I have to use my traps to stay alive and lfb costs to much to spam. Whine, whine, whine.

They are finally leaving the demon hunter alone, this is a good thing. While I wouldn't be against un-nerfing some skills like caltraps, buffing resource regeneration isn't needed. Buffing our resource regeneration will just lead to more nerfs down the road.

You know there are ways you could have phrased your post without sounding like so much of a troll.
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03/13/2013 07:43 PMPosted by Slay
I can play any MP level without a problem.
not me,
mp0 is too boring

you are lucky
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I usually play MP7 with a few deaths for the challenge. I have no issue with DH's eHP but we are definitely moving and killing very slowly. Sadly our paper DPS does not translate to real eDPS and our fast movement speed is only applicable to Nats legacy user. I hope we do get some buffs on certain skill damage or some speed
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mp10 is boring
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@DIEoxidE

Stutter stepping is also not that tiring once you know how to do it well. you can set your mouse sensitivity pretty high and only maneuver your mouse close around your DH since you only really need to aim certain hatred spenders. Everything else is a simple button click or a click in the direction of the monsters.


i need to hold down the force attack key when i shoot with left click while stutter stepping, resulting in my DH looking like a complete idiot, usually happens, even when the timing of pressing force atk key is like just 1/10th of a sec. off. What am i doing wrong?

Also does a fast weapon helps in stutter stepping? i dont have a problem with Bola/Echo, but i just made a switch to Grenadier/LfB/Grenades, and i find throwing grenades with manticore, plus the delay, feels like a granny. . .

Anyhow, i saw your video in another thread and your playstyle looks really fun, and it really made a fast weapon shine. I used to play with a calamity but inefficient kiting defeat the purpose of its speed and i swapped for manticore. I play a lot lesser nowadays but looks like im gonna practise more on my DH and brush up my skills.

Im quite interested in getting a calamity. who knows it may throw out more edps for me! Even if it dont, i dont really care as its way more fun!

Cheers!!
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03/13/2013 07:03 PMPosted by METATRON
100k dps wizard does the effective DPS of a 200k + DPS DH


I agree with you and I think we are making the same statement in a round and about way there.

I am a new Wiz too and only use it on Ueber runs to stun mobs/elites/boss so other classes can spam their best DPS attacks without worry ..

I don't play play wiz to farm.. just thought i saw potential there.. As for farming mp1-3 or mp5-7 my 1mil gold budget barb does a better job than my DH .. .SADLY ..
Edited by BlackVenom#1754 on 3/13/2013 9:47 PM PDT
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More Hatred regen isn't necessary, instead most skills need a lower Hatred cost.

Also, the cooldown on Sentries just need to be flat out removed. And Nightstalker should also reduce the cooldown on skills by 1 second per crit to INCLUDE Smokescreen.

Jagged Spikes needs a proc coefficient. Or it shouldn't benefit from life steal and reflect damage back either.

Blast radius on Cluster Arrows need to increase.

Sticky Trap needs a radius that is larger than Volatile Explosives(20 yards), and needs to be based on a % of max health of what was tagged. 400% or so weapon damage is a slap to the face of the skill. Lightning Rod needs a larger trigger radius and should go off twice per cast, 4 times with Custom Engineering.

Marked for Death needs Natural "Contagion" and the Rune for Contagion could work similar to how Nightstalker works but on the target.

Prep Punishment rune should enlarge your Hatred pool by 50% its current amount and stack up to 3 times for 30 seconds. So you essentially "prepare" yourself with hatred between engagements and unload. Making Vengeance more desirable as well(since it would benefit from the 50% stacks).

I even thought about a change to Prep Invigorate that would allow us to swap resource pools(hatred becomes discipline and vice versa) for 30 seconds or something at the cost of Discipline regen removal during that time(Nightstalker NOT Included). That would completely change the game and remove emphasis on Legacy Nat's, and allow for some Vault and Caltrop aggressive playing styles(with Jagged Spikes proc returning).


I actually like all of these suggestions.


Thanks bro. I was afraid my post was getting overlooked.

Blizzard could just look to the real Natalya(d2 Assassin) on the potentials for certain skills. Like Fade and Burst of Speed. I especially liked the suggestions that were made for Shadow Power lasting for over a minute. Honestly, Shadow Power should just last for at least one minute at the cost of taking a permanent amount of discipline away(like maybe 12 discipline is shaved off the top until the duration is over). When you look at the runes it almost seemed like Shadow Power staying on was an original intention.

At the moment, the attacks in the Device branch slow the pace way down. I would even love it if upon removing the cooldowns on Sentries, that Vigilant Watcher rune allows us to throw them distances.

And I always sort of thought of Preparation as the skill that would define how you'd approach the game upon usage. At the moment they all essentially do the same exact things except with slight differences. Battle Scars could even change to give a crazy amount of % life regen over a 15-30 sec period instead of a flat heal.

It's like oh this pack has Plagued and Desecrate, let me pop Battle Scars in "preparation" for the battle.

These guys got Fast affix? Aight let me use the new Invigorate with my Custom Engineering and put Caltrops all over the battlefield.

I still think DHs are in a great place, it's just some minor tweaks to pacing. To be able to make use of certain things it's like the pace of battle for us has to come to a screeching halt. Especially when using Sentry. Them having a cooldown just doesn't make any sense in this fast gameplay.
Edited by ActionKungfu#1184 on 3/13/2013 9:50 PM PDT
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"I can kite, I can tank, I can stutterstep, I'm virtually unkillable and gloom is just a bonus from god. I can play any MP level without a problem. I've played with hundreds of different players and most of them suck. The vast majority of barbs, wizards, monks, witch doctors and demon hunters suck. Am I the fastest? No, I'm positive I'm not the fastest but I'm faster than most."

So you can kite, you can tank, and you can blow men. You play with 100 others and they suck right? Does that make us the 99%? Apparently someone needs to quit pick pocketing dad for gold on the RMAH. The DH needs buffs. Needs better resource regeneration. That simple. I'll attend to the other posts that actually make valid comments and contribute my own as well besides being the troll's shadow.
Edited by Matheyus#1507 on 3/13/2013 9:54 PM PDT
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I actually like all of these suggestions.


Thanks bro. I was afraid my post was getting overlooked.

Blizzard could just look to the real Natalya(d2 Assassin) on the potentials for certain skills. Like Fade and Burst of Speed. I especially liked the suggestions that were made for Shadow Power lasting for over a minute. Honestly, Shadow Power should just last for at least one minute at the cost of taking a permanent amount of discipline away(like maybe 12 discipline is shaved off the top until the duration is over). When you look at the runes it almost seemed like Shadow Power staying on was an original intention.

At the moment, the attacks in the Device branch slow the pace way down. I would even love it if upon removing the cooldowns on Sentries, that Vigilant Watcher rune allows us to throw them distances.

And I always sort of thought of Preparation as the skill that would define how you'd approach the game upon usage. At the moment they all essentially do the same exact things except with slight differences. Battle Scars could even change to give a crazy amount of % life regen over a 15-30 sec period instead of a flat heal.

It's like oh this pack has Plagued and Desecrate, let me pop Battle Scars in "preparation" for the battle.

These guys got Fast affix? Aight let me use the new Invigorate with my Custom Engineering and put Caltrops all over the battlefield.

I still think DHs are in a great place, it's just some minor tweaks to pacing. To be able to make use of certain things it's like the pace of battle for us has to come to a screeching halt. Especially when using Sentry. Them having a cooldown just doesn't make any sense in this fast gameplay.

That might actually have some interesting application, sacrificing your discipline pool for an increased duration, they might have to reduce the damage given back as life.
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03/13/2013 09:47 PMPosted by ActionKungfu
When you look at the runes it almost seemed like Shadow Power staying on was an original intention.
cant speak to any incantation internally, but in beta Shadow power was simply a 20% IAS buff and lower level than 16
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In short I think everyone has had some quality input on ideas for the DH. The truth of the matter is that no, this game should not be about equality... it should be about gameplay. If the Demon Hunter is just a front for maneuverability, then count me out. But add a little variety in skills and or consistency/damage. Then yes, you've crowned a diablo addict.

Metatron made some really good points. In short, like I said, the game should not rely on equality nor would that make it fun. However, with all other classes performing with public please on regeneration/resource costs I'd have to agree. The demon hunter really has nothing optimal in favor of hatred regeneration. I'm not a big fan of anything being done to change/add discipline. Those skills are mostly used as additives and bonuses, (they should be appreciated in my mind.)

However, changes need to occur with big buggers like cluster arrow, multishot, or even the minor yet consistency of ball lightning (great for lower MP'S). Also, the cooldowns on rain of vengeance. Really? Way to long to send a stampede swooping in for 10 seconds that might tickle the butt of elites/bosses on higher MP levels. They need buffs. I believe hatred regeneration is an absolute must. I believe increasing the damage output for some skills would be beneficial. I said BENEFICIAL because they in my mind would still be secondary. If you're DPS output is high enough, you will do damage. If you're attack speed is high, you will still gain hatred quicker than before with better regeneration. But just adding damage to skills in my mind isn't going to change the facts. You might take a monster's health down in mp9 by 15% more, but chances are you are still going to run out of hatred and (long awkward pause) while your bat craps on everyone for hatred regeneration.

Also, I don't think MP10 was creating for killing with lightning speed/high damage. It's about being consistent in my mind. I like that. I still want to have a bit of a challange and battle. That's why I appreciated CM wizards so much. They ripped it up with tornadoes, keeping Hell's minions in a frozen spinning nightmare while your allies came swooping in to finish the job off. Or even solo was a blast. Not the BEST dps, but relevant to game play spice and consistency. The DH really needs that consistency with her own pack of original skills in my mind. Better hatred regeneration in short.
Edited by Matheyus#1507 on 3/13/2013 10:27 PM PDT
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I got to lvl 100 paragon with DH and finally gave other classes a try .. DH is on the shelf.. I love DH and it is still my favorite class to play. BUT it is terrible mp6 and up compared to other classes. Granted I believe the other classes are able to bypass alot of unintended game mechanics ( BARB- berzerker is suppose to be 15 seconds long but it can last forever and Wiz has zero cool down .. just some examples).

This is what the other classes feel like :

Imagine strafe that generates hatred and rain of vengance cost 5 hatred and zero cool down.

Shadow power gloom = 35% defensive buff and 15% LS that lasts 5 seconds and consumes all DISC ( legacy NATs don't count unless every DH has 2 bil gold for a 200 k dps Legacy NAT set) .. When I say consumes all DISC is because we really can't use it for anytihing else or we won't have DISC to gloom... ( My suggestion is shadow power should last 120 seconds minimum)

versus

Barbs berzerker buffs / monks mantra buffs / wiz zero cool down eliminations plus unlimitted arcane ( CM wiz don't evven think about resources because it's always full no matter what 3 skills they cast every second )... DH's buffs are not even in the same league..

As for gear costs... remember a 1mil BARB can clear MP10 easily.. .may take longer but they won't die and they can play and clear mp10 head on full boar into the fray ... all offensive... no kiting bull!@#$..

The biggest defensive help will be Larger DISC pool and 120 seconds minimum shadow power..

Offense needs less hatred cost and zero cool down. 50 hatred and cool down.. WTF.. A DH's cool down is simple . when we run out of Hatred ..

Effective damage??? on a DH it's mostly one or two attacks at a time and there is usally a cost.. MONKS/barbs/wiz can use 3 to 5 attacks skills all at the same time.. So a 100k dps barb/wiz does way more Effecitive damage then a DH ..

If anyone thinks this will make a DH too powerful.. check this comparison...

Bola thunder stuns one mob and we spike trap ( okay .. good) versus Wiz freezes all surrounding mobs - explosive blast/wicked wind/ meteor / diamonds skin ( and 1/2 second later repeat unlimited - they get cool downs erased / max arcane/ and 3 attacks skills ) DH is not in the same league...

Thats my thoughts anyways..


I just wanted to say grats on 100 paragon, and grats on being patient. I feel your pain. The DH is very enjoyable for me and though I dabbled in the wizard and barbarian for quite some time, I feel the demon hunter will stay my favorite. Do I believe she needs buffs? Absolutely. It's the potential for change or adding paint to the portrait that completes my long hours spent playing. You could NOT have put it better with your comparison to other classes. It's once again stated that this game shouldn't be on the dot equal. I'm in agreement to that at least. But, as for the game play it is quite noticable. The DH is easily out performed and not as fun/consistent on higher MP.
Edited by Matheyus#1507 on 3/13/2013 10:37 PM PDT
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Oh, so you can't regen your resource fast enough, welcome to the world of Monks!

wait a tic, does this mean that the Monks aren't the "special" class anymore. Hooray! We're off the short bus! I can finally take my helmet off!
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Ì disagree with OP. Try my EXACT build.

I farm MP7 extremely efficiently. How? By using one of the most underused skill runes: Multishot Full Broadside. It does 214% weapon damage base and I've calculated it with d3up to be 255% weapon damage with my 15% multishot crit bonus.

Using a cold damage SOJ paired with Vengeance or Cull the Weak, I do insane amounts of damage to the entire screen.

With vengeance, I never run out of hatred and rarely run out of discipline, even with Evasive Fire.

You don't need my 588k DPS vs. elites to be able to efficiently farm mp6 though. MP7 just recently became the the most efficient for me, and if I had a little more EHP I'd consider MP8 to be most efficient.

To OP, Please try my build out yourself. For it to work best, try to get max multishot crit bonus on your quiver and Stone of Jordan (If you can find one), Use Vengeance though if you don't have a cold damage SOJ.
Edited by DarkCecil13#1982 on 3/13/2013 11:38 PM PDT
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Ì disagree with OP. Try my EXACT build.

I farm MP7 extremely efficiently. How? By using one of the most underused skill runes: Multishot Full Broadside. It does 214% weapon damage base and I've calculated it with d3up to be 255% weapon damage with my 15% multishot crit bonus.

Using a cold damage SOJ paired with Vengeance or Cull the Weak, I do insane amounts of damage to the entire screen.

With vengeance, I never run out of hatred and rarely run out of discipline, even with Evasive Fire.

You don't need my 588k DPS vs. elites to be able to efficiently farm mp6 though. MP7 just recently became the the most efficient for me, and if I had a little more EHP I'd consider MP8 to be most efficient.

To OP, Please try my build out yourself. For it to work best, try to get max multishot crit bonus on your quiver and Stone of Jordan (If you can find one),


Lol! Dude your still talking mp 6-7 while every other class when rolled right with half our sheet DPS and stomp mp10. I'm sorry but your not seeing the issue. That said cool your doing mp6 with a ton of gear, I could build a barb or wiz or monk with the same DH gear your wearing to stomp mp7 with little effort. But yea you tell yourself were fine for high mp, I barely consider mp6 high MP.
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@ METATRON

Yes, you have a point. MP6-7 is considered a low MP for a barb but high for a DH :) I farm MP7 more than anything, though.
Edited by DarkCecil13#1982 on 3/13/2013 11:41 PM PDT
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Oh, so you can't regen your resource fast enough, welcome to the world of Monks!

wait a tic, does this mean that the Monks aren't the "special" class anymore. Hooray! We're off the short bus! I can finally take my helmet off!


You must be a bad monk lol!!! Most of my monk friends can drop bells all day for. 800% dmg. All it really takes is sweeping wind for the 3 spirit rune or a mantra of health spirit rune. Comon bro you act like its impossible to spam bells, do you want me to post a video of mp10 perma bell? Sure I wouldn't run that build i would run a variation of it but to act like you can't drop bells every other second is a lie and a disservice to your own class and all the others who plan to play monks.

http://youtu.be/fUm_ouQmFnE

The Funny thing is I've played all classes and know all their builds currently (it helps to make those big bucks) and I can tell you DH need some serious reworking compared to the rest.
Edited by METATRON#1945 on 3/13/2013 11:46 PM PDT
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