Diablo® III

Predictable loot or "just around the corner" loot ?

Travis day stated in the Itemization Developer's journal :

"We want to make it fun and rewarding to hunt down new items through play, and really instill the feeling that your next awesome item could come from anywhere, and is just around the corner."

What do you guys think about this ? Is it better to go for the "awesome item just around the corner" idea, or to get a more predictable system loot system ?

I think this is an important matter because it determines the expectations of the player when he's playing. My feeling is that, when you're expecting loot all the time, you're actually never expecting it. When it drops you're never really excited, because you didn't have that psychological preparation time, asking yourself "Ok, is this mob/quest/boss/event/whatever gonna give a nice legendary ?".

I kill elites never expecting anything, I kill bosses never expecting anything, I run through thousands of trash mobs without any expectations, because I'm supposed to expect a drop every mob I kill. It's simply impossible to keep expectations high all the time, even if the itemization gets better with future patches/xpacks.

I feel that D3 is lacking tension. It is lacking landmarks, where you know you'll be rewarded for doing something. D2 allowed players to farm bosses. They could build up their hopes and expect something.

D3 has a lot of potential to have those kind of landmarks, of high excitement moments, and Nephalem Valor is a really cool tool for that. The player has to build up something before going for the high reward. Monster Power is also a very useful tool in this goal.

So, what do you guys think ? Is it better to have that awesome drop waiting, just around the corner for you, or would you prefer a more predictable looting experience, where you know some landmarks have a higher chance to yield good loot ?
Reply Quote
Bump ^^
Reply Quote
Anyone ?
Reply Quote
Tough question MisterHyde...

I'm thinking of the Countess in D2. We know she would always drop a rune, but never knew exactly what you would get. Sure, mostly rubbish but every now and again, if you were really lucky, an Ist might pop.

We knew the act bosses in D2 could drop good items but not always.

I think thats what this game is lacking. The odds of a really great drop come from anything can come from anywhere, and hence it feels like nowhere. As an example, in all the alk runs that I have done, the vast majority I have killed Azmodan. Not once has he dropped a legendary or set item. Those that I have found have come from chests or random monsters which kinda feels wrong. I would expect one of the bosses to have a far better chance of dropping great gear rather than some plebian monster in stonefort.

Probably doesnt answer your question too well, but it is late.

Cheers,
Matt.
Reply Quote
I agree, and don't forget another part of Travis's post said they are considering "targeted" legendaries, so you know which bosses will drop which legendaries. I think this would be a much better change than people think.. you can hunt for a specific elite/boss, and like you said, you will get excited to kill it and disappointed when what you want doesn't drop.. but you know that you can just try it again. Currently, yes, there are no expectations for good loot. You run A3 and when you finish and get nothing you say to yourself, why bother doing it again its unlikely anything I want will drop. Targeted legendary drops gets around this problem, while requiring 5 stacks of NV gets around the 5 minute game sessions they wanted to avoid to begin with.
Reply Quote
I think the fact that both have their appeal gives you your answer right off the bat! The best approach is to have both those systems at play. Having some "common" Legendary or Set items with groovy effects dropping from certain enemies is fine given those items have at least a bit of variety and don't trump everything else, but at the end of the day we want those items that just make us go "oh sweet, I can use this for builds A, D and G." I think part of the solution is a much improved pool of affixes where you can look forward to Rares being better and competing with good Legendaries, but also making sure the diversity in item rolls is there to make it so even if you can look forward to drops being good, they'll still keep their versatility. I actually made a thread the other day about my personal hopes and expectations of any major overhaul and what it needs to succeed. http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/8177777946 :)
Reply Quote
90 Undead Mage
13645
Well i think with they really make legendarys better, something when you drop you wixh to equip and use it, i agree to make then hard to drop. But some predictable system for a random legendary will be awesome too. I think in 2 ideas.

1- A Dailly Task that reward you with a random legendary. Something that make you play like, turn in 20 Demonic Essence for reward ( can be another new drop item, i just choose demonic essence because with you play high MPS you have better chances to do it fast).

2- A call this system Lucky Charm and only work on MP1 or High. This system when you kill a boss ( Like Leoric ) with 5 NV you get a lucky Charm stack ( like NV, but this dont expire and stay all the session, oly reset with you go menus or exit game).

What it do: Luck Charm - Increase X% chance to drop legendary item when kill Butcher, Belial, Azmodan and Diablo.

It Stack so more boss you kill better your chance in that session.
The bosses that gives the bonus are : Skeleton King, Spider Queen, Maghda, Zoltun Kulle, Ghom, Cydaea, Rakanoth and Izaul.

You only get it with you have 5 NV stack. And how much you get per kill, will be what MP you are doing.

MP 1 - 1% - max of 8% with all boss killed
MP 2 - 2% - max of 16% with all boss killed
MP 3 - 3% - max of 24% with all boss killed
MP 4 - 4% - max of 32% with all boss killed
MP 5 - 5% - max of 40% with all boss killed
MP 6- 6% - max of 48% with all boss killed
MP 7- 7% - max of 56% with all boss killed
MP 8- 8% - max of 64% with all boss killed
MP 9- 9% - max of 72% with all boss killed
MP 10 - 10% - max of 80% with all boss killed

Conclusion, this system rewards well who play High MPS and play for a full session, increase your chance greatly when you kill Diablo with you played form act 1 to act 4.

Just a idea, but i think have many other ways to make loot more predictable, with out make a legendary rain, because i think legendary have to stay legendary, and with will be predictable ways to get it, you have work hard for it at last.
Edited by Demon#1471 on 3/14/2013 7:23 AM PDT
Reply Quote
Damn, I made a loooong post and it simply didn't work :( FLJck I wrote for 30 minutes for nothing.
Reply Quote
Here's a resume of it all :
- Targeted legendaries are ok, but they will never replace the untargeted legendary drop chance of bosses.
- Here's an idea of a system : the player can stack unlimited NV stacks, which give : 15% MF up to 75%, like it is now ; 1,5% legendary drop chance from bosses. When you get to a boss with 25 NV stacks, you have a 37,5% chance of getting a legendary (should be fine tuned to go with MP).

Blizzard, give the players a chance to dream, to set goals in their D3 item hunt. There should be nothing more exceting than hunting legendaries.

The odds of a really great drop come from anything can come from anywhere, and hence it feels like nowhere. As an example, in all the alk runs that I have done, the vast majority I have killed Azmodan. Not once has he dropped a legendary or set item. Those that I have found have come from chests or random monsters which kinda feels wrong.


Agreed !

2- A call this system Lucky Charm and only work on MP1 or High. This system when you kill a boss ( Like Leoric ) with 5 NV you get a lucky Charm stack ( like NV, but this dont expire and stay all the session, oly reset with you go menus or exit game).

What it do: Luck Charm - Increase X% chance to drop legendary item when kill Butcher, Belial, Azmodan and Diablo.


Interesting idea, but I would never play the entire D3 in one session, and it is too unbalanced towards high MP. Cf. my first idea.
Edited by Mist3rHyde#2460 on 3/14/2013 10:11 AM PDT
Reply Quote
To answer your question OP, a system where there's more predictable loot benefits the game much more than having pure RNG determine what you get and where. It benefits casual players especially: when you're only able to play for 10-20 minutes, but want to get the most out of your time, an alk run shouldn't be the answer.

To date, the Infernal Machine system has been mostly well received, IMO because it gave players several targeted areas that they could clear and have a reasonable chance at a reward. D2 had many more ways to spend a quick amount of time, maybe you could run Meph 2-3 times, or kill Baal, or Countess, but the point was that you had some good choices. Nowadays, I think people have had their fill of ubers, and need content that offers a reasonable award for a short amount of time.

The choice is pretty clear to me that bosses are that content we need reworked. Right now most bosses are a joke in terms of the challenge the fights provide, and the reward given. Also, because of the quest system, you can't go back in the act and kill a boss, that needs to change.

Now, I understand that you don't want new players walking into inferno MP0 and find that SK is overpowered, but if I have the game set to MP7, i'm ASKING for a real challenge. On that note, no boss is a bigger letdown to me than Diablo, players should be running D in groups right now, just like we did in D2, but there's no good reason to. He drops the same loot any elite pack would, and act 4 is a chore when it comes to finding elite packs. Many players just see act 4 as a waste of time.

I'm okay with having some set pool of legendaries or other items (maybe a star gem?) that bosses have a higher chance to drop, but to be realistic, I don't think that's what will keep people coming back. What's to say that 90% of those items end up as brimstones 2 months from now? What I think would make more of a difference, is that if they raise the quality of items that drop, but lower the frequency, then bosses can be a great way to get a few (7-8) solid rolls without having to kill a bunch of trash. Any legendary would then just be icing on the cake.
Reply Quote
03/14/2013 10:14 AMPosted by DotDo
I'm okay with having some set pool of legendaries or other items (maybe a star gem?) that bosses have a higher chance to drop, but to be realistic, I don't think that's what will keep people coming back. What's to say that 90% of those items end up as brimstones 2 months from now?


Totally agreed.

To me, targeted legendaries would suffer what I call the "Legendary crafting plan effet" : once players find those plans, they can have an infinite amount of that Legendary. This means Blizzard simply can't make those items powerful (hence lege crafting plans being bad).
If we know where to loot some item, we can have a higher supply of it, so it can't be a good item, or it would be unbalanced and not fun.

Bosses need to have a better reward, and we could even think of certain bosses having a higher chance of dropping some items (ranged weapons, shoulders, armors, amulets, whatever).

PS : Legendary amulets are bad, please rethink them.
Reply Quote
A combination of both.
Reply Quote
03/14/2013 10:35 AMPosted by Legacy
A combination of both.


Short but right to the point, I couldn't agree more.

But the predictable part is, in my opinion, more important than the random "just around the corner" one. I don't see any other better way to reward the player for his efforts.
Reply Quote
Bump !
Reply Quote
I think the purple unique mobs need to do something. they all suck right now. They could drop pieces that are used to craft new legendaries like the demonic essence that was added but more like the pieces the ubers drop.
Reply Quote
03/19/2013 04:19 AMPosted by Bob
I think the purple unique mobs need to do something. they all suck right now. They could drop pieces that are used to craft new legendaries like the demonic essence that was added but more like the pieces the ubers drop.


While I agree that purple uniques need to be more interesting, I don't think they are a good solution right now, because once again players have to rely on total randomness to find them. I think D3 needs a little less randomness, not more of it.
Reply Quote
the game got fun for me again once I started seeing keys drop. a key has a known value. I didn't have to grind through a 100 junk keys to find a good key. a key is a key, you see it drop. youre happy. and I couldn't just go anywhere to find a key. the key to finding a key (if you will) wasn't simply killing the most mobs over the shortest period of time. I had to find out where to go, what to kill, and how to kill it. again, fun.

make legs more like keys.
Edited by Ragic#1455 on 3/19/2013 4:51 AM PDT
Reply Quote
I like the idea of a more predictable loot system. To qualify this, here is how I am interpreting the definition of 'predictable':

1) Less drops, higher quality

2) Certain events/bosses provide a higher chance of reward, or have really good items in their unique loot table that can only be obtained from those events. (IE Maybe skeleton king has chance to drop a sword that most Barbarians would want, even if the roll is not the greatest. However, the sword does still roll stats, and has a very small chance to be off the charts godly).

What Ragic said about keys is very true. I like the 'feel' of stacking up 5 NV and then hunting down that key warden. How many of us were running around fields of misery before key wardens? I want a reason to play these other zones, and kill these other bosses. I really think there needs to be unique loot tables with something good for your character off many different bosses. Maybe have loot and new crafting consumables as well? Or maybe chance to drop a star quality gem? Farming consumables makes for great replayability.
Edited by Zero#1222 on 3/19/2013 5:15 AM PDT
Reply Quote
It's simple..

Delete the D3 loot system in it's entirety from the server.

Copy/Paste the entire loot system from D2 into the server.

Problem solved.
Reply Quote
Expectation and challenge is where D3 needs to fix. D2 got it right with this mix and it allows ppl to plan to get what they want.

The new event to get the infernal ring is good cuz it has a specific purpose and ppl was able to feel rewarded when key or organs drop... and hence it justifies their time spend playing.

So the solution is really simple and the developers need to look at how to improve D3 towards this goal. Imo they should tie this with the itemization updates they are working towards improving legendaries. They need to look at how to make uniques different and more fun than just stats base driven... than tie it to the boss or purples for us to farm...
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)
Submit Cancel

Reported!

[Close]