Diablo® III

because there are 5 classes...

03/28/2013 07:32 PMPosted by cdann58
BRING BACK CUSTOM GAMES!


something like...
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7416062244
? latest version

everyone want it, but wont happen.... maybe expansion (lol, not really)
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im sorry but the blue post just makes me go wtf...

after playing torchlight 1 and 2 i have to call complete and utter bull!@#$ on the reason why PC doesn't get a dodge button. it really doesn't make a difference if you can click your way somewhere or if you have to push a joystick in a certain direction.

if for whatever reason it is easier to use a mouse, then it is because your team of people programming the controller don't know what there doing..

why in torchlight 1 and 2 there is no issues using the controller? my character moves just fine with it and i am able to move out of the way of things if i need to. and theres no dodge button. and i play these games both on PC.
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03/28/2013 06:51 PMPosted by Lylirra
In that video (around 7:14) a monster drops a "buff globe" that increases exp greatly for about 10 seconds. I have seen no official world on this mechanic, will this come to PC's also?


It's what we call a "power up" globe. Basically, there's a small chance that whenever a health globe drops it'll turn into a power up globe instead. These globes can provide the player with one of several small, temporary buffs (+MF/GF, +movement speed, +attack speed, etc) when picked up and last for very short period of time. They're similar to Shrine buffs, but are designed to give players a quick boost during the middle of combat, rather than something you take from fight to fight.

Right now, there aren't any plans to bring power up globes to the PC, but that of course may change as we continue testing and poring through your feedback. :)


What is the reasoning behind adding cool features to the PS3 version of the game but not adding them to the PC version?
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03/28/2013 06:10 PMPosted by TwoCoins
Lol, why do you insist on telling others how to play?


The theory that we're trying to aggressively redefine "what's fun" has always saddened me. Our goal in designing Diablo III, and in supporting it post-launch, is to constantly iterate on its systems and content, incorporating new perspectives and feedback as we go. Each change we push is ultimately aimed at making Sanctuary more enjoyable for as many people as possible. Of course, "fun" is a pretty subjective term, so sometimes that means we'll make a change that's seen as unfavorable to a smaller group of players, but will (hopefully) be appreciated by larger portions of our player base.

We're always reevaluating our design decisions, though, and working to make improvements based off player feedback. Iteration is key.
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1 extra character in a party puts too much stress on their systems.

8 necro full summons corpse exploding was pretty entertaining and made a lot of people complain about lag.
Edited by MikeAkaJB#1122 on 3/28/2013 8:43 PM PDT
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03/28/2013 06:09 PMPosted by Lylirra
The first is because, fundamentally, the way you move your character around on the console vs the way you move your character around on the PC is pretty different. With a keyboard and mouse in a game like Diablo III, you have a little more freedom. Not only can you see a bit farther (because of how we've positioned the camera), but you can also literally point to a spot on the map, click it, and your character will move there.


A little more? I'd actually argue that you have more control with a joystick. I find the #1 biggest problem with Diablo III that infuriates me the most is it feels like this: www.essaytyper.com

The system regardless of where you have the mouse or which button you press at a specific point in space, will choose what it thinks is best. This is great if you're looking to mash buttons and just have your character cast random spells, but this goes against a core Blizzard philosophy:

Blizzard games are easy to learn, hard to master.

Where's the mastery in that if there's no precision control? If I misclick, I want the actual misclick and I'll accept that it's my fault that I died. If I click on a monster, I want it to actually attack the monster. If I click next to a monster, I want to move next to the monster. I want precision control. I want to actually play the game not load up Diablo III auto-flight simulator and randomly press buttons. Have you ever done this? It's surprising how similar in function it is to actually trying to play.

I have had on more occasions that I can count:

- Left Click on an open space far away from monsters and have a left click skill attack a monster.
- Casting a left click skill on a target in melee range when the cursor is far across the screen
- Holding down left click to move and my character walks over an item (usually white) and stops to pick it up
- Left Click on one item which is highlighted, only to pick up another item
- Left click on an item, to move next to it or attack a monster, even if the item is highlighted, left click multiple times just makes you run around and you can't pick it up until shortly later.
- Press a keyboard button with a skill on it and have it cast a left click or right click skill
- Press a right click skill and have it cast a left click skill
- Use left click to move and have multiple rubberbanding issues (does not happen if you bind a button to "move") This happens very often if you use Starcraft II-esque "stutterstepping" casting a spell, clicking away to move, and then clicking again for a second cast, rinse and repeat.
- Held down left click on an open space, to move, only to when I come across a monster start to attack the monster with my left click skill.

And before anyone blames it on keyboard ghosting, I have NKRO over usb (http://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=46 tested with aqua key tester so I know my input is pure, do you know if yours is?)

Even if this game is all about gear, I don't see why there were decisions made that do not allow precision control of the game. It has no mastery, just uber gear. This hurts the game, because there is no mastery... it's not fun if the game plays itself. I might as well watch a Diablo movie...

Edit: I understand that some people like the "overly forgiving" input method that Diablo III has, but I don't even have an option for precision control. Maybe if it had a "Diablo II input style method" that could give that old visceral unforgiving if you misclick mistakes, but great rewards if you control well, I'd be very happy.

Oh, and while I'm at it: shameless plug that teleport needs to be fixed to have it's pathing work like Vault. Vault got caught on corners and everything in the beta, and due to feedback it was changed to hug corners. But the beta was capped at 13, and we didn't have teleport to give the same feedback about. But this sorely needs it. It's the longest cooldown mobility spell in the game and the only one that gets stuck on corners, it's also the only wizard defensive skill that has both an arcane cost and a cooldown yet it's also the most unreliable because a pebble on the ground can mean the "nether" that you travel through fails to exist because there's an anti-nether pebble on the ground.
Edited by Defenestrate#1788 on 3/28/2013 8:56 PM PDT
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Hey guys! I chatted with Wyatt about this topic on your behalf and, while he's currently at GDC giving a sweet talk about refining game systems in Diablo III (including health recovery, combat controls, and character skills), he shared some information with me that I wanted to pass on.

we should be able to at least have parties of 5 instead of 4

that would at least be a good thing....


We know some players will always prefer to have more than 4 people in a group, and we respect that completely. Even so, while a larger party size may seem appealing in concept (and even in practice for other games), there are a number of factors which contributed to belief that four players is the ideal party size for Diablo III.

First off, the four-player limit isn't in any way related to the number of classes you can play. One reason we actually preferred the idea of four-player co-op as opposed to five was that we felt if the number was five, then players might feel as if it was mandatory to have one of each class in their party. This couldn't be further from the truth. We want players to feel like they can charge through Sanctuary with their friends regardless of whether they have four different classes represented or (for example) a group with two Barbarians and two Witch Doctors.

We also wanted group buffs (like auras and shouts) to feel meaningful in both solo and group play. Right now, you buff yourself and others by the same amount. We like that shouts are good and auras are strong, and that my contribution to the group via my buffs feels significant. But as group sizes get larger, the best player buffs would potentially need to be nerfed either by:

  • Making them to be weaker, and subsequently tuned around multiplayer (which is a similar approach to what World of Warcraft uses)
  • Or reducing the effect buffs have on other players (which is what Diablo II wound up having to do later)

We don't like the idea of these sorts of nerfs and want to avoid them as much as possible, which is part of the combined reason why we aren't eager to increase the maximum size of groups.

Another factor we considered is that of player contributions. We like that you can really notice the contribution of each person at four players. No matter what size group you have, whenever you add another person to a group, each player’s personal contribution is diminished. This has some bad side effects. For example, if you swing at a monster, it feels good when you're doing enough damage to see its health bar move. At four players, it’s already possible to be punching a monster and not feel like you're doing any damage because the bar is moving slowly. This stigma would get worse as you add more people to a group.

Other factors we considered were that of screen noise and the number of players you can follow. At four players, we felt that you were still able to easily keep track of your party-members, but that beyond this size it became more and more difficult to monitor everything on screen. Additionally, the screen noise and spell effects generated by five players simply felt too overwhelming (this is something we tested quite extensively).

In summation, we’re pretty happy about the size of four-player groups. HOWEVER, we know that the multiplayer aspect of Diablo III needs improvement and are already looking into ways that we can further incentivize [url="http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/8088199933#5"]co-op farming and efficiency in patch 1.0.8[/url]. Wyatt is currently working on a developer journal about this very topic, so we hope to share even more information soon. :)


Thank you for clearing things up...

I don't mind four players right now but when my buddies and I play and want to uber, someone is always sitting out

but i believe that...

we should have the option of setting how many players can be in the game we create like how it was in Diablo 2, I don't see how that will affect anyone at all except for the people who want to be able to play with all their friends or people who would like to play with more people (like me, also, i think the setting should be where the monster power setting is) and if it is too cluttered or hard to monitor, people will still be able to set the setting back to four
Edited by pHkaty#1127 on 3/28/2013 8:58 PM PDT
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boil everything down to "well, you just did it because of console."

there's gradations of this belief.

"everything" because of console? perhaps not.

but if you expect us to believe there wasn't a significant amount of foresight employed, mindful of consoles being an ultimate destination for this product, that guided if not restricted the overall design of D3 ....................

i mean .........................

that's just naive!

i hope you don't really believe that.
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The problem with this is that no matter what thee d3 players have to say, the game will go where the developers choose to send it. There is honestly no valid argument here. Blizzard will do what makes them money, and players will play the game. PC users will argue that the game was tailored to console, Blizzard will defend themselves. In the end Blizzard has sold the majority of the copies of Diablo 3 that the PC market offers, however there is a much untapped market in the realm of consoles when it comes to this type of game. There is no amount of argument at this point that could change that path that Blizzard has chosen for Diablo 3, it will never be anything close to the Diablo 2 we have grown so attached to. There are many things that I dislike about the game in current form and I do not see them changing. I'm sorry Diablo, you do not have the potential to captivate me as you once did.
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This is the biggest issue I'm positive everyone has with what's going on with the console version.

Fix the PC version first before the console version is even looked at.

Get the PC version all patched up to where it needs to be (balance, content, itemization, economy, etc..) before the console is even a thought.
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I'd just like to quick weigh in on this co-op incentives thing. Firstly, I feel that most people play Co-op as if they were playing solo and there just happen to be other things in there killing enemies. What then, is the point of playing Co-op? There's no exciting/meaningful ways for me to directly interact with my allies.

Secondly, the only efficient way to farm is at a difficulty that you can essentially sprint through one shotting everything. Because of the coordination/time sinks that are required with multiplayer, benefits to livability and damage (which exist and then some) which are GREATLY beneficial at higher MPs are outweighed.
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03/28/2013 07:32 PMPosted by cdann58
This is so stupid, if i wanted to play with 20 players i should be able to.. and if you want to play with 4 you should be able to.. BRING BACK CUSTOM GAMES!


Agreed. Why is the current diablo staff acting like commies. They tell us what is fun. It SHOULD BE THE other way aground.

Custom game? No match making is more fun.
8 player game? No 4 player offers a richer experience. We know what's best for you.

It took what 10 months to add ID all button... Kept telling us its more rewarding to ID items individually.
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I have had on more occasions that I can count:

- Left Click on an open space far away from monsters and have a left click skill attack a monster.
- Casting a left click skill on a target in melee range when the cursor is far across the screen
- Holding down left click to move and my character walks over an item (usually white) and stops to pick it up
- Left Click on one item which is highlighted, only to pick up another item
- Left click on an item, to move next to it or attack a monster, even if the item is highlighted, left click multiple times just makes you run around and you can't pick it up until shortly later.
- Press a keyboard button with a skill on it and have it cast a left click or right click skill
- Press a right click skill and have it cast a left click skill
- Use left click to move and have multiple rubberbanding issues (does not happen if you bind a button to "move") This happens very often if you use Starcraft II-esque "stutterstepping" casting a spell, clicking away to move, and then clicking again for a second cast, rinse and repeat.
- Held down left click on an open space, to move, only to when I come across a monster start to attack the monster with my left click skill.


Almost all of that is PEBKAC. I've never had a skill bound to a key cast a skill bound to a mouse button instead lol
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^ lol
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Let's also keep in mind that consoles only allow 4 player co-op.
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03/28/2013 10:24 PMPosted by Monsta
Almost all of that is PEBKAC. I've never had a skill bound to a key cast a skill bound to a mouse button instead lol


All that stuff is reproducible.

Rubberbanding? really? Picking up different items even though it's highlighted? How could I possibly be creating those issues in their game engine? None of that is PEBKAC, haven't you seen all the "hitbox" complaints? Most of those issues are because of the "hitboxes" being inconsistent and too large - the game detects a mismatched action to what you're really trying to do. Don't believe me? There's plenty of posts about it with plenty of hard data on it already.
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03/28/2013 06:09 PMPosted by Lylirra
It's one of those elements that just "fits" on the console, but doesn't necessarily make sense for PC.


So you are saying Guildwars 2 got it wrong with the dodging built in?
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