Diablo® III

because there are 5 classes...

Its 4 players because the console version was taken into consideration during development.

Anything Lylirra says is just BS. I swear Blizzard believe we're all dumb as !@#$.
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03/29/2013 01:55 AMPosted by TheSaint
I would like this CM to look at Diablo 2 statistics today, and see how many games with a 4 player limit there is.

Unfortunately, it's not going to change their thinking on the matter. That has been made clear.
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The game would be alot more fun with 8 players. No doubt about it, it worked in D2 perfectly.
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Diablo was a mystery when we could not figure out why the failed so bad, but now that the PS3 is coming out, it seems to make sense. Blizzard really missed the mark on this one.
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The second reason is that the Evade ability just feels super (and forgive my eloquence here) console-y. We want the game to feel natural when using a controller, and being able to dodge and roll around really plays up that fantasy. It's one of those elements that just "fits" on the console version super well, but doesn't necessarily make sense for PC.


Yeah, because according to you guys, us being able to manually dodge stuff just isn't fun.
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03/28/2013 06:51 PMPosted by Lylirra
In that video (around 7:14) a monster drops a "buff globe" that increases exp greatly for about 10 seconds. I have seen no official world on this mechanic, will this come to PC's also?


It's what we call a "power up" globe. Basically, there's a small chance that whenever a health globe drops it'll turn into a power up globe instead. These globes can provide the player with one of several small, temporary buffs (+MF/GF, +movement speed, +attack speed, etc) when picked up and last for very short period of time. They're similar to Shrine buffs, but are designed to give players a quick boost during the middle of combat, rather than something you take from fight to fight.

Right now, there aren't any plans to bring power up globes to the PC, but that of course may change as we continue testing and poring through your feedback. :)


This is a very bad feature for Witch Doctors because instead of a health globe, it turns into a power up globe, so it is NOT additional. I don't want this mechanic to be released for PC. Witch doctors rely tremendously on health globes for their gameplay. Health globes = more int, more resistance, more damage for WDs.
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I'm surprised at blue responses to some of these questions (Wonder why?)... This is the first Blizzard product or game I've ever purchased and the way Blizzard handle themselves makes me think of the PR Fluff constantly fed to the players extremely soulless (harsh I know).

Mentioning player ideas or demands (optional higher player cap) and downplaying them and pretending your showing no arrogance by claiming its some sort of design philosophy (usually the words used, not here though) is a hard thing to believe when the criticism is better then Blizzards responses (often making more sense too), most often dancing around the main points of a topic to a point we all become frustrated at what "looks" like developer incompetence (ask the devs anyone?). hence why you now face fans that don't accept your reasons have any value. I don't even think you should expect it. I am not saying that to an individual, I am saying that to Blizzard as a whole. This is why some "believe" things like a 4 player cap being the best number is rubbish as far as your reasoning goes Lylirra.

To be clear I don't personally think any one person at blizzard is an awful person including Jay but at this point assuming people don't understand you Lylirra "If people think I'm lying then they don't actually understand my stance very well.", for lack of a better word...

It's because your robots!
Edited by Synesthesia#1303 on 3/29/2013 4:11 AM PDT
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"The core of the console game is based on the PC game -- you get all the same content, systems, classes, skills, and runes on the console as you do on PC"

regardless of reasoning wouldn't that be considered a lie? whether it's consoley or not this is not true statement since console has offline mode and no auction house (pc) and they get a dodge button while pc does not... Not the same for each other. so "same content" is false


Yup! You're correct that the console version will not have an auction house. Beyond that, since the console is based on the PC game, you get everything on the console as you do on PC (meaning you get all the same zones, events, monsters, bosses, classes, skills, runes, and systems like Infernal Machine, Brawling, and Monster Power on the console as you do on PC). Right now, we're currently planning to ship with everything up to 1.0.7, potentially 1.0.8 depending on development time.

There are also some features on the console version that are not present on the PC version, but I covered that in the post you quoted:

03/28/2013 05:34 PMPosted by Lylirra
That said, the console version is its own game, and we've made a variety of tweaks to the PlayStation version of Diablo III so it makes sense on that platform, including a complete re-design of the UI and character controls, as well as combat pacing and boss fights.


This is because the game was originally designed for PC and needed some adjustments in order to translate well to consoles, specifically the PlayStation platform.

So to clarify (since there seems to be quite a bit Blizz is allowing to go unexplained which is possibly what's causing a lot of confusion and anger) the console version doesn't even have the AH. That is understandable (I hope it's phased out of the PC version come any expansion or I'm not playing any more) but does that lack of auction house mean you changed there drop rates to be realistic so the PC version is basically the one with the infringing auction house and bad drop rates but the console one manages to get good drop rates and no AH?

On that note can you give an honest answer about whether drop rates have already started to change based on what you wanted (less items but better ones) because I've done around 8 runs recently and I don't even see green items anymore, I very rarely even see orange and that is weird and feels very bad when I am not seeing the upgraded item quality. I don't know if I'm just unlucky in this game but the drop rates constantly seem against me.
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03/28/2013 05:34 PMPosted by Lylirra
Also, console 4 player co-op = decision to limit to 4 players on PC


I know the "PC vs. Console" debate is its own sort of Eternal Conflict, and that it's super popular right now to blame every design decision you disagree with on the development of a PlayStation 3 version. In the end, if that's really what you want to believe in your (sin) heart of hearts, so be it. We may not totally understand why you believe that, but we can respect your opinion -- because, hey, you're a human being and you deserve it. <3

As I've said before, though, the PC experience defined the console experience, not vice-versa. The core of the console game is based on the PC game -- you get all the same content, systems, classes, skills, and runes on the console as you do on PC. Our goal when developing Diablo III for console was to deliver that same visceral gameplay you get with a mouse and keyboard, just on a different platform. We wanted the experience itself to be authentic, in as many ways as possible. (Quick FYI: the console version didn't actually go into full development until the game was released last May.)

That said, the console version is its own game, and we've made a variety of tweaks to the PlayStation version of Diablo III so it makes sense on that platform, including a complete re-design of the UI and character controls, as well as combat pacing and boss fights. I point this out because it means we have the latitude to make adjustments to the PC game for console as appropriate, and that our decision to go with four-player co-op on the PC (as opposed to 5-player or 8-player co-op) was based on our goals for what would make a great PC game. Not because it's what console co-op would need.

It's a disservice to game design -- as well as your feedback and healthy discussion in general -- to boil everything down to "well, you just did it because of console." Especially since you’re essentially ignoring everything we’re trying to talk to you about in the process. There were a number of different reasons that led us to decide on four players for multiplayer games in Diablo III, and none of them related to the development of console. You may agree with some of those reasons and disagree with others, or disagree with all of them -- and that's okay! Critiques are good, so long as they're relevant. Unfortunately, reducing all your arguments to glorified strawmen isn't very relevant. (Nor does it give us a lot of useful feedback on which to base further improvements.)


There is way too many features in this game that pretty much shout 'designed for console'. As far as I can see it you can propaganda us all you want with your 'reasons' but it's pretty blatantly obvious that this game was geared for console. To be honest I don't blame you for doing it, someone is rubbing there hands together at the impending influx of cash. I mean It's always been known consoles are the more popular gaming system, so why not exploit that and earn twice the cash...... I'm not going to lie D3 is fun to play but it could have been so much better if it was purely designed for pc.
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03/28/2013 11:53 PMPosted by Lylirra
(And, though it's a catchy phrase, the PC version was not a beta for the console version. Due to when the console version went into full development, however, it will be able to benefit from many of the changes we've made to the PC version since it launched last May.)


I have to agree that this makes no sense. With all the additions to the console version (like a dodge roll to get around the fire that's inexplicably stronger than Diablo) there's no way Blizzard would have forced 4-player parties for that reason. Clearly anything goes with the console version.

The PC version was not the beta for the console version. It was the beta for the PC version.
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03/28/2013 01:59 PMPosted by Oxus

That is your belief founded in nothing other than your mind.

I'd argue they simply favored having huge graphics over having more players. A decision that is a mistake in my opinion. Unfortunately that road has been traveled so far down that I can't see anyway to change it.


That is your belief founded in nothing other than YOUR mind.

It's called critical thinking. They've known since day one of D3 development that a console port was a major goal. There is a maximum of 4 player split screen available for consoles. I find it very hard to believe that the 4 player console limit played no part in the decision.

You can call it what you want it makes no difference. It's a belief you have based on your own thinking. No where has blizzard even said that consoles will play alongside of those using a PC in the same game and thus it is not required to have a 4 player game on the PC version to accomodate the console version. In fact the videos I have seen where a barb is rolling around would tend to support the idea that PC's and consoles will not share the same games and thus a 4 player game for the console needs is irrelevant to the PC.
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to be honnest... I read a lot of bull!@#$ but your reply (Lylarra) isn't really anything like we want to hear.

Do you seriously believe that MOBs will get easier? Its hard to say ANYTHING would change and the Main reason why we want more people is that its a Multiplayer Game. Stop mocking with reflexions of how the sanctuary is Sad and small. I doubt if there are more people, there will be more synergies to break the game that is already broken.

We want more players in a game because we want to discuss... we want to feel people surrounding us and feel powerful. Monster density is a step forward (was announced I believe). But More people and WORLDWIDE PVP is really all we asked for. We thought we'd get that and its the only thing that made people leave your game.

Seriously rethink about this. Talk to your team and forgive me to be diligently unhappy about your replies. Our will has Serious thoughts that have been brought up by your older game that is diablo 3. I am feeling gradually happier about this game as you, still, bring improvements. Nothing seems all significant though. Nothing does because THIS is the reason why no body was impressed.

We even thought we would have More people in a game. More pleople = More fun. Did you really not get the idea of a community? Trading in diablo 2 was amazing... There are no more incentives to this because you removed the listed games == No more community and sense of exchange. The only exchanges we do are pvm... and bad-brawling. I love brawling dont give me wrong, but... it all feels like lacklusters when it comes to comparison and what we REALLY expected.

graphics are hardly necessary in order to achieve what we thought you would.
We all love you. Make us be your fans even in our graves.
I mean... 8 players woulda been fine. 16 players in a game with the possibility to make a bloodbath like we thought this would be (some animations are fine, but overall... not even ears when defeating someone?... we see a sad banner drop from the skies xD).

Alright I think you get my point... this is a multiplayer game. Pvp is ok, but if you want to expand to what we know that used to be great.

- More players in a game (stop making assumptions and clashing ideas with WOW.. wow has a community in game...
- Worldwide pvp... Make arenas for rewards or titles... YEA titles. THat'd be nice. Anyways...
- Listed games. Hell... FREE HERE! > people join and you actually clear your stash. Makes you happy... makes them Hella happy.. helps this game feel awesome in many ways. I tried saying free this and that on the chat and nobody even replies... and I'm giving out stuff like skorns (1300 dps ones and much better gear than I see the new players with).

Helping is a pain in the %^-... and the chats were full when this game was popular.
Yes... chats were full... and how is a 200 person chat anywhere near a list of games that people can see and join at will?

listed games:
> Creates fear in the heart of people that know a player's account from his name.
> Creates incentives to join these games: "Come have fun. Only found gear players!", "dueling"! "free here"! (at the moment if you want to duel you ask around and it fills fast or just doesnt interest anyone), "Dance with the devil". People come in the game and you tell them an enigma. If they answer correctly... You give them all your gear and start from scratch (me bored).
> Bring fear in the heart of the gold spammers. They'll create game. Smack them and let us see you succeeded in closing their games. Make the title red as of: we kicked the owner. Unless its really out of control as we already know... its probably the only thing that goes against this idea...
> Creates a community <

Sincerely... we all did expect more > from this perspective <. We felt like a downgrade.
You can also create bigger areas... we'll go for them when we want to smash each other... The oasis in act 2, the desert in act 2... We know where you didnt limit us. We'll head to these places to enjoy real action.

Accessing other acts from one game too was kinda cool... but I get why its not possible and its mostly because you level designs are real lack lusters. Straight to the point. No offense we just all know that. Making mistakes is normal, but... we paid for your renown awesomeness. You're losing that renown and you know who you should listen to (please dont make me say it... hint: your dedicated fans... they know better and you shoulda even Hired one).

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
read, understand. Stop saying bull*!@#.
Yes we love the company... just not your decisions.

Say you'll do all of this and publicize it. => Sell a lot of copies from players that with
Come Back...

I'm done lol... I thought I wouldn't spend time trying to help anymore, but hey. I was a fan. I hardly play anymore. Sad thing is I told myself: "this is my last game". Its probably true.
although this is also my last post. I was actually clearing my web trackers.

- Nick B / Draël
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i believe blizzard should allow 8 players like in diablo 2. i loved the carnage, the ferocity, the action. of 8 player diablo 2.

I understand their reasoning that it may become too clogged, however that is subjective. A lot of us may actually love that clogged feeling. That feeling of spells, elements, wolves, swords, and all sorts of stuff hitting the fan in a swirling heap of chaos.

I love it.

Just include the player limiting function so when creating games you can restrict it to 4 if you dont like more than that amount.

This whole concept that the game would be too clogged is really a choice in their design if you ask me.

Based on other games and history it is clear that an 8 player game is possible. It looks to me like they chose pretty graphics with large effects over having 8 players. Things like meteor or explosive blast cover the screen with pretty graphics. Then if you throw slow time bubbles overtop of that and multiply that times even 2 players you can hardly see anything sometimes. I agree that if in the current version of the design you simply added 4 more players most of us would be lost 80% of the time if not more. In it's current version I wouldn't want more than 4 players. I just wish they'd gone for less effects on screen and more players.
Edited by AxeLord#1992 on 3/29/2013 5:36 AM PDT
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I find it hilarious that people still think the D3 was designed for consoles first, even though several blues have stated otherwise. So many band-wagoners on these forums. Here's a thought, try thinking for yourselves for once.

inb4 fanboi
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I think in this case I can say for everyone, we, the players know better how we want to play the game and when it's entertaining. The problem here shouldn't be listen to the community or don't but how to make our suggestions viable, excuses doesn't work.. more over if something is working in diablo 2, it can for sure work very well for d3 too. Not only in case of more players in co-op but waypoints to all acts, building your char and many other things we are demanding since the beggining, we won't stop becouse of blizzard excuses, we know why it's not in the game but continiously we are trying to tell you that you were wrong.

I'm not speaking directly to You, Lylirra so don't feel insulted (You are not guilty here) but to the whole Blizz dev team.

Please acknowledge this already so we could start debating how to fix diablo3, not will you listen to us or will do it your way.

Please.. less excuses more co-op
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You have mentioned a couple things which are slated for the console version but not necessarily the PC version:


The second reason is that the Evade ability just feels super (and forgive my eloquence here) console-y. We want the game to feel natural when using a controller, and being able to dodge and roll around really plays up that fantasy. It's one of those elements that just "fits" on the console version super well, but doesn't necessarily make sense for PC.



It's what we call a "power up" globe. Basically, there's a small chance that whenever a health globe drops it'll turn into a power up globe instead. These globes can provide the player with one of several small, temporary buffs (+MF/GF, +movement speed, +attack speed, etc) when picked up and last for very short period of time. They're similar to Shrine buffs, but are designed to give players a quick boost during the middle of combat, rather than something you take from fight to fight.

Right now, there aren't any plans to bring power up globes to the PC, but that of course may change as we continue testing and poring through your feedback. :)


I don't understand why you wouldn't add power up globes to both? This isn't similar to the evade feature where the controls are different for PC/Console so it might make more sense for one than the other. I think this is part of the reason people get upset. You're adding all the new, cool features to Console but not to PC. Some of these are features that people have been asking for since launch (Offline mode, no-AH mode, the ability to dodge attacks) while others are just new cool things (power up globes).

With regard to evade - hasn't the inability to actually dodge (player controlled version, not RNG dodge from dex) attacks been a large complaint about D3 basically since it came out? That you're unable to actually apply any sort of skill to surviving encounters because you're effectively capped at "do you have enough EH to survive the hit? do you have enough sustain to get back that health before the next?" Obviously you can move out of the radius of a molten explosion or move off of stacked plagues, but the ability to purposefully evade a wind up attack would be really cool and add a level of playability that doesn't currently exist. I mean, I know you can try and move out of the radius of a wind up attack, but that doesn't always work (I always remember a thread that was made eons ago, documenting how poorly this actually works; you can get hit by an attack even though you're well out of its radius).

Lastly, I just wanted to say ... why would only Console gamers enjoy fulfilling the fantasy of being able to dodge and roll out of the way of attacks? Why wouldn't PC gamers enjoy the same thing?
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