Diablo® III

Clarify something for me (re: BOA Item rolls)

To Quote myself:
I use shoulders as an EHP slot. They account for the single largest portion of my EHP (17%, or 171k EHP). I cannot see Dex shoulders rolling all of the things I need in this slot, and while I have been rolling Vit shoulders, they just aren't hitting all the spots I need thus far.

Feels like everyone has been picking on my shoulders lately. Am I the only monk using shoulders for pure ehp or something?? LOL
Is it possible for Dex shoulders to roll the amount of EHP I have now? I figure I just keep rolling Vit shoulders and hope I eventually get something better than what I have now, but I don't see it being easy to do, and think that it would be easier to craft an upgrade in another slot first. Am I wrong?
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Dex shoulders can roll:
-200-230 dex guaranteed
1) 100 vit
2) 100 dex + 100 vit
3) 80 AR
4) Armor (or [Your Chosen Resist])
5) Life% (or [Your Chosen Resist])

Totals: 300-330 dex, 200 vit, 80 AR, Armor, Lilfe % (or [Your Chosen Resist])

Vit shoulders can roll:
-200-230 vit guaranteed
1) 100 dex
2) 100 dex + 100 vit
3) 80 AR
4) Armor (or [Your Chosen Resist])
5) Life% (or [Your Chosen Resist])

Totals: 300-330 vit, 200 dex, 80 AR, Armor, Lilfe % (or [Your Chosen Resist])

If you want vit more than dex, then by all means continue to craft Vit ones. You're not losing/gaining any amount of stats one way or the other, just changing what you're guaranteed to get.
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See my shoulders:

http://d3up.com/b/52940
On profile as well, 179.7k ehp (not even using the poison resist), 323 dex. Took roughly 150-200 shoulders I think?
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I have found that bracers followed by shoulders were the easiest to craft for upgrades. I think that your shoulders are being made fun of due to the lack of dodge and armour that dex can provide, and the fact that I have made dex shoulders that the same vit the ones on your profile. I think that you can easily make vit shoulders better than the ones you have, and think you should continue.

I see the main issue is the OWE factored in but I am sure you can get the best upgrade from crafting shoulders than you would from buying from the AH. And don't let people pick on you, get Druin to smack them around!!
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Thank you all. So basically, as long as I don't roll armour (and get my resist there), I can indeed roll better either way. Food for thought, and food for Haedrig's hammer too now :P I'll probably continue to roll Vit, just because I WANT it for sure in this slot. Dex I am not overly worried about, though it would be nice >_>

Druin will smack people for me? I'll have to talk to him about that >_>
Edited by Sinafae#1771 on 3/19/2013 8:35 AM PDT
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Sin if your going to use it as an eHP slot roll Vit.

Optimal roll for you:

Main State 200-230
Dex/Vit
AR
%Life
Armor
Life Regen/Health Gloves/Pick UP radius

Best roll it would look like this:

100 Dex
330 Vit
80 AR
12% Life
265 Armor

I know you can roll 100 Dex but I would rather have PU radius or Life Regen in this slot since you can get Dex anywhere else.

By the way I rolled a decent Vit shoulder

74 Dex
204 Vit
12% Life
73 AR
12K Health Globes
GF Blah...

Helped me run with AR Innas since I never picked them up with Vit. Cost effective to say the least!

Cheers and GL,
CC-
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Thanks Carl! Nice shoulders, too bad on the GF.
Would the armour really be worth the loss of my chosen resist? Every time I go under 600 res all I have problems staying alive...

Can someone please tell Haedrig that I need those exact rolls, all at the same time? :D
I wonder if I slip him a jingly couple mill if he'd see things my way.
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I think the maximum rolls for each slot mean you can now craft VIT gloves and DEX shoulders and get a better combo than you could by rolling the reverse or doubling down on one of them. If you're not playing any alts, however, you'll blow a lot of rolls on VIT gloves you're not really interested in.
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Rolling Dex > Rolling Vit. You can always gem for vit later if you're down on HP and want to run a higher MP. Think of it this way, in every MP and fight, the dex is helping you. Only when you would have died would the vit help you.

Unless you're going pvp gear, then it's a different story as it should all be vit rolls :)
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Rolling Dex > Rolling Vit. You can always gem for vit later if you're down on HP and want to run a higher MP. Think of it this way, in every MP and fight, the dex is helping you. Only when you would have died would the vit help you.

Unless you're going pvp gear, then it's a different story as it should all be vit rolls :)


On the alternate, I can always gem for the dex like I am doing... And roll vit, because I am playing MP8-10.
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Rolling Dex > Rolling Vit. You can always gem for vit later if you're down on HP and want to run a higher MP. Think of it this way, in every MP and fight, the dex is helping you. Only when you would have died would the vit help you.

Unless you're going pvp gear, then it's a different story as it should all be vit rolls :)


On the alternate, I can always gem for the dex like I am doing... And roll vit, because I am playing MP8-10.


I guess, but you're choosing the route that has less potential dps but more hp potential instead of the less potential hp but more dps. To each their own i guess.
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Rolling Dex > Rolling Vit. You can always gem for vit later if you're down on HP and want to run a higher MP. Think of it this way, in every MP and fight, the dex is helping you. Only when you would have died would the vit help you.

Unless you're going pvp gear, then it's a different story as it should all be vit rolls :)


On the alternate, I can always gem for the dex like I am doing... And roll vit, because I am playing MP8-10.


the advantage of gemming vit is that after u gain 25 paragon lvls u can then drop a vit gem, since ur ehp will have filled out
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Generally, I feel like I should be able to look at someone's Monk and know whether they need more of Dex or Vit by looking at their gems. If they're all green, they're saying that they want more Dex instead of Vit, because if they wanted more Vit as opposed to Dex, they'd have put some purple gems in.

Sinafae, in your case I'd probably be going with Dex shoulders if you were looking to craft better ones (unless you do something like switch over to purple gems in you chest when playing at higher MPs). If you wanted more Vit at the cost of Dex, you have the ability to do that already.
(And you've chosen not to)

I'm fairly ambivalent right now as to whether I get Dex or Vit. No surprise then, that I'm using both green and purple gems. If I was crafting gloves, I'd definitely be crafting Vit. Gloves seem to craft like !@#$ and so I'm much more likely to get something useful. I'd be crafting Dex chests for the same reason. I'm honestly not sure which way I'd go on bracers. (Probably Dex because I'm looking to upgrade the gem in my weapon right now, so I need the green gems, but that's mainly a limited resources thing)
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My spreadsheet and what I'm seeing in battle tell me which way to slot my gems. That spreadsheet is pretty smart, yo.
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03/19/2013 10:05 AMPosted by Vrkhyz
My spreadsheet and what I'm seeing in battle tell me which way to slot my gems. That spreadsheet is pretty smart, yo.


I don't need a spreadsheet or experience in battle to tell me if more EHP or DPS is better. I have heroscore for that.
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I'm fairly ambivalent right now as to whether I get Dex or Vit. No surprise then, that I'm using both green and purple gems. If I was crafting gloves, I'd definitely be crafting Vit. Gloves seem to craft like !@#$ and so I'm much more likely to get something useful. I'd be crafting Dex chests for the same reason. I'm honestly not sure which way I'd go on bracers. (Probably Dex because I'm looking to upgrade the gem in my weapon right now, so I need the green gems, but that's mainly a limited resources thing)

See, but Chests and Gloves are beasts of a different nature because they have higher rolls of one or the other (Shoulders have higher rolls of Str - so for Barbs, the best choice is definitely Vit shoulders).

Chests you absolutely want to roll Dex ones.
Dex chest:
-200-230 dex guaranteed
1. 200 vit
2. 100 dex + 100 vit
3/4/5: 80 AR, Armor/Life %, 3 sockets

Total: 300-300 dex, 300 vit, etc.

Vit chest:
-200-230 vit guaranteed
1. 100 dex
2. 100 dex + 100 vit
3/4/5: 80 AR, Armor/Life %, 3 sockets

Total: 200 dex, 300-330 vit, etc.

You can see that in this scenario, you're costing yourself 100 stats (I prefer to think of them as useful stats rather than simply dex/vit, because you can always switch gems, even if that isn't exactly cost efficient).

In the situation of Shoulders, you're not costing yourself 100 stats either way. They have the potential to roll equally high.

Gloves are an even more unique situation. Here we see that Dex can roll up to 200 while Vit can only roll up to 100, which means that if you craft Vit gloves you'd potentially get 100 more stats.

But the problem with this is what are you giving up for that 100 stats?

Ideal gloves would probably look like:
-Guaranteed roll
1. CC
2. AS
3. CD
4. AR
5. dex + vit roll

Which means in order for you to end up with 100 more stats one way or the other, you'd have to drop one of those other rolls. Is 100 [dex+vit] worth 10% CC to you? 50% CD? 80 AR? etc

In this case, I think I would opt to choose dex gloves because I would rather have the rolls I listed than an extra 100 dex or vit.

---
Now, one thing to consider is not just where your gear is now but also where you'd like it to be. Because crafted gear cannot be sold, anything you upgrade is either getting vendored, salvaged, or put on an alt. This is markedly different than upgrading other gear, with which you can earn back at least some sort of value. Crafting is also different because, well, RNG.

I think it's important to recognize these differences, because if down the road you end up making up that health elsewhere and decide you don't need *quite* as much vit on your shoulders ... you have no easy way of exchanging your shoulders for more DPS oriented ones. You've no way to recoup any of the resources you've poured into them.

Let's say, for example, that down the road you end up upgrading your Inna's Chest to one that has 220+ vit and your Inna's Pants to one that has a high vit roll instead of arc resist. After gaining 220 vit, roughly 10k health, you feel that you don't quite need as much health - while more health is great, you're comfortable with just 55k and are willing to lose 3k for more DPS.

The problem now is that you already are using all dex gems. Where can you afford to lose some health? Maybe you look at your shoulders and think, "well gee, I've got 80 dex and 250 vit on my shoulders ... I sure wish those were reversed."

At that point, your vit shoulders have ceased to provide any value going forward.

Basically, I think you are fine crafting either one - you're not hurting your stats doing it one way or the other (like you would if you crafted vit chests). But I would urge you to consider what your gear will look like down the road - maybe what's best for your gear *right now* won't be best later on (and if you do decide that you'd rather have dex ones later on but need the vit right now, you can always swap gems).
Edited by Piffle#1874 on 3/19/2013 10:37 AM PDT
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It really comes down to gear. If you lack eHP you can always overload one or two slots to compensate. Later on perhaps you may want to craft the other one you chose not to craft now, either Vit or Dex. I chose to craft Vit shoulders because I did not pick up Inna's Chest or Pants with Vit but instead picked them up with AR. Given that I wanted to push a bit more Vit I chose the shoulders.

Not everybody will be in this situation. Some maybe plateauing at 130K DPS and have load of eHP so of course any ounce of Dex they can squeeze out of their next upgrades/crafts. It is situation no doubt.

Talking if you have almost all BiS pieces and are looking for optimal roll its best to craft Dex for all pieces except gloves since gloves can roll more Dex than other slots.
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I knew Piffle would be along soon with the what's what.
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Piffle, I know that the general assumption seems to be that you ultimately judge success of your character by how much DPS you can get, and that ultimately most people seem to want only as much defenses as they absolutely need. Because apparently the whole game has become about how many legendaries per hour you can earn and DPS is what makes that happen. From that perspective, and the assumption that you will keep on crafting until you have achieved perfect DPS maxing stats everywhere, it definitely makes sense to craft Dex gloves.

Another thing to keep in mind is whether or not you're really going to keep playing the game to that point, though. I think that tends to get forgotten as well. I'm generally looking for something I can use, and crafting Vit gloves, for example, greatly increases the chances of crafting something useful for me. If I was still crafting, I'd be looking for something I could use now. I don't think most people are even ever going to hit the so called "gg gear" level.

(Also, I don't know if it's clear why I think crafting Vit gloves crafts better gloves on average. It's not really because you can get 300/300 gloves, although that's now a new possibility. It's because for any randomly generated glove there are now two good 200 stat rolls possible. You can't roll 300d/100v/AR trifecta gloves, but you can roll 200d/200v/AR trifectas and 100d/300v/AR trifectas. And you can roll 300d/300v trifectas instead of 300d/200v trifectas. At anything less than 5-perfect-affix level your potential total stat pool is 300/300 instead of 300/200 and you have an even greater increase in good permutations and better rolls on average thanks to there being two different 200 stat rolls to pull from.

If you place any value on Vit at all, you create much better gloves on average and give your self a much better chance for upgrades.)
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I think you should roll Dex Sin. You need more dps. ^_^
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