Diablo® III

After Playing HOTS...Really? *This* Is How You Boss!

Diablo 3 boss was hard, but they nerfed it after patch 1.03.

I still remember:

- I have to watch Belial's animation to guess which attack he will use, and avoid it before he smash. also have to move from poison explosive..any failure to do this = dead

- I have to watch Siegebreaker's animation and run away as soon as he start his power combo attack, it will one shot you.

- for Azmadon, one fireball can kill you, even on melee range. and I have to walk out his fallen corpse etc... basical all his ability are danger and you can only attack him when he don't use ability.

- Izual , one of hardest boss, need to learn how to avoid his instant dead charge by move around circle etc

It was pretty challenge but got nerfed sooo hard because everyone complant about it.


This is the glory old days. I remember back then a monk was super useful because of our USEFUL heals to the party.

IMO, blizzard caved in and make the game too easy.

Solution: make MP10 boss fights hard, have guarantee kill animations, regardless of what gear you have. And drop legendary when we complete them!!
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03/14/2013 07:14 AMPosted by dracolich
Izual , one of hardest boss, need to learn how to avoid his instant dead charge by move around circle


I am happy the charge have been nerfed. First time I See him (in normal), the intro ends and 1 second later, he charges me and take out 90% of my life and during the time I couldn't control my character, kill me in one shot. Second try, he does the exact same thing. I was worrying about how to kill a boss that instant kill you one second after the beginning of the fight. Third try, he charges Tyrael, I reach a circle and managed to kill him. It is more interesting to have to avoid his charge but it should be possible.

One hit kill should be avoidable and not only by luck. That why all bosses show where they are going to strike. But of course when you have a lot of survivability, you don't even have to avoid the attack. Playing self loot, I don't have always the needed gears. My DH have ended hell with 2 blues after 100 hours of play. Even like that some bosses are easy but others (Rakanoth) is hard enough. When you have godly gears be careful about what you ask. It could be a lot more difficult to play in lower level without either AH or an more advance characters.
Edited by holce#2777 on 3/14/2013 7:36 AM PDT
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We love some of our boss fights (like Belial, Butcher, and Diablo), but agree that some of them could be better. We’re certainly interested in hearing feedback about what you think could make a boss fight more fun, and would like to hear any examples you may have. The more specific, the better. The examples can come from any game, but if you’re referencing HOTS, then please try to avoid sharing any spoilers, if you can.

It’s worth noting that opinions are probably going to vary quite a bit on this. Some players may like the idea of needing to tether a charging boss to a heavy object to slow him down, (even if the strength of those tethers scaled with a hero’s power) while other players may find the mechanic a frustrating chore after a few times. Something else to consider while offering suggestions is that different games are going to have different limitations when it comes to bosses. For example in Diablo III, the encounters have to work with heroes that have different skills and power levels. I bring this up because not every game has to consider this, and designers can tune a boss knowing exactly what a player's damage output, skill selection, and health pool is going to be.

What I'd like to see is smooth transitions from gameplay to the boss fight itself. In Diablo II, gameplay didn't stop for awkward cutscenes. The bosses said their monologue as you were fighting them. It was a lot smoother gameplay. Pressing "Esc" is just an unnecessary hassle as far as I'm concerned. With the removal of cutscenes it would make it much easier to allow "quest-free" gameplay. IE, traveling between acts with ease.

For example, the mini-boss spider in Act I. There are absolutely no cutscenes that interfere. You approach the bosses chambers, and she appears. Why not make it so that as Magdha is speaking to you about the Butcher he comes barreling into the room and starts attacking you without a separate scene?
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1+ reminded me of d3 but i liked the sc2 version better
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Add bosses different acts that aren't elites or champions like you did in the trailer video with the ghom looking boss on act 1.
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I must say, of the two games, Hots seems like the game that was designed for adult players, DIablo 3 feels like the little game your kids might get a kick out of, just my opinion.


Agreed. D3 may not have been designed for kids, but I suspect it was designed BY kids.
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03/13/2013 08:39 PMPosted by Grimiku
(like Belial, Butcher, and Diablo)


These were the "good" boss fights. It seems that we agree that Azmodan really lacked in this game. As far as my first play through was concerns, these 3 fights really had a boss feel. What I thought made them strong was:

  • Different mechanics you had to watch out for at the same time (hooks/fire/charge, Fire/cages/melee, comets/claws/breath)
  • Multiple phases (Diablo and Belial)
  • Dangerous attacks you HAD to avoid (first playthrough anyway)
  • Azmodan didn't really have any exciting attacks, nor where any of his phases clearly defined. Even during my first play through, I could take a lot of his hits.

    On another note, while I felt the Butcher fight was good, I think a short coming was that we were introduced to him only as we fought him. It was a nice "surprise" but I think if his presence had at least been alluded to it would have built more suspense. Think back to D1, a dying guy sends you to find the Butcher, and THEN you find a room that is just as horrible as he described. Suspense was built. I really like the way we saw glimpses of the Siegebreaker back in the debut demo. I think a trick like that to instill the fear of an upcoming boss would have been super effective.
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    a boss that summons several minions waves before you can kill him. Just like Baal in d2 :P

    ...different from belial
    Edited by Max#1117 on 3/14/2013 8:06 AM PDT
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    03/14/2013 07:57 AMPosted by Pin
    I think a trick like that to instill the fear of an upcoming boss would have been super effective.


    It works only the first time. Except if the room are not always as the same place. So you could not know in advance where the boss come from. We would need more random map. And it should have multiple rooms that look alike.
    Edited by holce#2777 on 3/14/2013 8:05 AM PDT
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    Ghom is a simple spam of life steal... For a act 3 sub boss I'd like for the Fallen Maniacs from the keep to randomly run at you and Ghom.. If they make it to you and explode huge damage.. But what direction should always be random and keep your attention maxed out.. ;)
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    while we all have good ideas on how to improve fights. I thought I would offer my opinion on how to not make fights WORSE.

    The Diablo franchise has (for the most part) avoided the following *common* boss fights, all of which make games worse. I would love to see Diablo continue to not have really annoying and stupid boss fights:

    Escort mission: Some idiot npc with paper skin gets fragged by a boss over and over again while you attempt to save him from his own stupidity. Escort missions are the pinnacle of modern lazy game design.

    "Find the stupid invisible boss" - Works in games like zelda where you have a 10x10 room to find gannon in, does not work in giant underworlds. It doesn't make the boss harder, just makes the game more tedious.

    "Find the teleporting boss" (very similar to above) - Kulle is fine, he teleports within a set chamber and not insanely far, other games have you hit a boss then run for 5 minutes to hit him again, thus adding tedium instead of fun.

    "Invincible boss in a trap puzzle" - you can't actually damage or kill the boss, you have to just turn levers and push buttons all over the place to get him environment killed. Boring, tedious, does not make you feel powerful.

    Please please do NOT implement any of these lazy and tedious bosses.
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    I feel that we should have back super tuff ghom for softcore..or let him summon mobs that die in molten explosions or summon fallen maniacs. (softcore only)

    azmodan's minions are too noob and is inconsequential . they only act as life sources esp considering lifesteal. what should spawn in softcore is the knockback spear tossing + electrified version of the act 1 keywarden
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    The PC version was always meant for console therefore all the fights had to be dumbed down. You can't have complex mechanics on console because you can't control your character the same way as you would with a mouse and keyboard.

    Another way to look at it is when are you ever attacking and defending at the same time on console? You're not, you're either attacking OR you're defending. PC enables you to do both = fights can be made more technical.


    what this guys said
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    The issue is that once you obtain the godly gear, you no longer have to do much work other than stand in one place and attack. This makes it extremely boring. D2 also had this problem.

    There are some things, at lower gear and lower levels, that creates a bit of fun. Belial for example. When he starts doing his main attack, you are forced to run. At later levels, that can simply be ignored and you can stand in 1 place and bash his face in.

    Things I would like to see:

    Instead of defensive interaction, create offensive interaction or create a fast paced fight. "Ancients from D2 comes to mind".

    Example: Azmodan. Keep him as he is but add to it. At 25% intervals, Azmodan spawns 4 adds. These adds do moderate damage and CC your character. In most cases, Life Steal is what pushes characters over the top and allows them to stand there melting faces. By CCing the player, you push the urgency of the adds up a notch as this is time they are not restoring life. (Not just Life Steal but any passive abilities which allows the generation of resources used to keep one healed).

    Ghom was another amazing defensive interacting fight. Until you got to the point you could safely stand in his poison clouds. Then it became a tank n spank again. In the Ghom fight, I would have played it out like this:

    Ghom will lay poison clouds that do an extensive amount of damage, more than any geared character could take. There are 4 levers around the room that will temporarily allow access to the outside. Winds would blow the gas away. This means that a player would need to strategically place the clouds until such a time he would need to hit the lever to clear the room. This adds an offensive/defensive interaction to the fight.

    Diablo fight. When he teleports away, don't have him run back to the player. When he teleports away, have him start casting devestating abilities from range, forcing the player to either dodge at range or get back into melee instead of twiddling their thumbs, waiting for Diablo to walk back to them.

    Also, by adding these types of interactions, the Devs could increase the drop rates of Legendary/Set items on bosses as "bots" would have a far more difficult time farming bosses.

    "Resolution for getting out into the world". With Paragon levels, Valor stacks are kinda useless. Get rid of them. Instead, add random Lore figures into the world that have a chance of dropping an associated Legendary with that mob. You said that you want more legendaries dropping from their associated character. "Butchers Cleaver dropping from the Butcher". etc.

    "Asphyxia has a chance to spawn in Act 1 Festering Woods. He drops a 2H Axe called "Breathless".

    All of a sudden, you not only have "Legendary Items" that have a chance to drop from all bosses, but now you have "Rare Legendary" items that only drop from specific bosses within the game and some of those bosses will rarely spawn in random places in certain acts.

    Those are just my ideas.
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    What's special about the Butcher boss fight?

    The only good boss fight is Belial.
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    The PC version was always meant for console therefore all the fights had to be dumbed down. You can't have complex mechanics on console because you can't control your character the same way as you would with a mouse and keyboard.

    Another way to look at it is when are you ever attacking and defending at the same time on console? You're not, you're either attacking OR you're defending. PC enables you to do both = fights can be made more technical.


    I dissagree with this completely... remember Fable 1... hold left trigger and you have access to 4 skills... hold right and 4 more skills... and in Diablo you could incorporate the bumpers into the mix... for a total of 16 different things at once... on top of this, add in the D-pad.. you have 4 any time options like potions etc... I think you're being a bit short sighted here... I personally think that neither one is harder... also, why not just bundle D3 with a keyboard and mouse if you're that worried...
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    I am posting from work so I didn't have a lot of time to see if anyone else already covered this but when diablo 3 was starting to surface one of the selling points with the new engine was the physics and the more interaction with the environment (ie falling chandeliers, water drums) and I felt like for the boss fights this could have been incorporated a lot more into the mechanics of a boss fight to allow the player to have more control over how they take them down. How cool would it be to flip a switch on a boss to activate a deadly trap right under their feet? What about in the diablo fight he burned a pentagram under your feet and the ground started to crumble and interrupts you or stuns you? I had more ideas but I have forgotten them. There is a lot more potential in this area for future encounters.
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    OK... here is the problem I see with the bosses... they are diablo bosses as they should be... there shouldn't be any gimmicks to them... remember seeing the Butcher in D1... yeah, he says "Ah, fresh meat!" and it's on... in fact, you can kite him all the way back to the stairs and run your chicken@#$% !@# off... but that was the point... as was D2... the only thing that gave it away at times was the Quests + that popped up... that is what D3 needs... I don't want to have to do a quest every time I want to fight Belial... I don't want to have to wait through dialogue... just let us get in, and get out... when you add gimmicks it causes a forces "slow down" which is against the nature of an ARPG which is about killing fast and being the best at doing so... Personally, if you get rid of dialogue and quests that have to be done on any of the bosses, add in waypoints EXACTLY at the bosses location etc you're going to have a much more Diablo-esque formula...
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    87 Human Rogue
    9265
    OK BLIZZARD LISTEN UP! One boss fight you could tweak is...the big man himself Diablo. since being the PRIME evil you would that he would inherate (spelling) some of their traits/spells. OR for a super fun teaser you could add all the boss spells from D2 into Diablo's arsenal...like duriel's icy hit or maphisto's lighting orb (think he had something like that) or Andariel's poison nova AND make it actually poison you!! cmon blizzard bring back some of the OP hard !@# elemental damage that we loved to hate but still loved....back when lightning was your doom and poison was a $%^-* to cure or icy just ruined your kiting days. About all I can come up with, but if you have fun with it and bring in some old time D2 stuff I'm sure all the OLDIES will love it.
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    87 Human Rogue
    9265
    The issue is that once you obtain the godly gear, you no longer have to do much work other than stand in one place and attack. This makes it extremely boring. D2 also had this problem.

    There are some things, at lower gear and lower levels, that creates a bit of fun. Belial for example. When he starts doing his main attack, you are forced to run. At later levels, that can simply be ignored and you can stand in 1 place and bash his face in.

    Things I would like to see:

    Instead of defensive interaction, create offensive interaction or create a fast paced fight. "Ancients from D2 comes to mind".

    Example: Azmodan. Keep him as he is but add to it. At 25% intervals, Azmodan spawns 4 adds. These adds do moderate damage and CC your character. In most cases, Life Steal is what pushes characters over the top and allows them to stand there melting faces. By CCing the player, you push the urgency of the adds up a notch as this is time they are not restoring life. (Not just Life Steal but any passive abilities which allows the generation of resources used to keep one healed).

    Ghom was another amazing defensive interacting fight. Until you got to the point you could safely stand in his poison clouds. Then it became a tank n spank again. In the Ghom fight, I would have played it out like this:

    Ghom will lay poison clouds that do an extensive amount of damage, more than any geared character could take. There are 4 levers around the room that will temporarily allow access to the outside. Winds would blow the gas away. This means that a player would need to strategically place the clouds until such a time he would need to hit the lever to clear the room. This adds an offensive/defensive interaction to the fight.

    Diablo fight. When he teleports away, don't have him run back to the player. When he teleports away, have him start casting devestating abilities from range, forcing the player to either dodge at range or get back into melee instead of twiddling their thumbs, waiting for Diablo to walk back to them.

    Also, by adding these types of interactions, the Devs could increase the drop rates of Legendary/Set items on bosses as "bots" would have a far more difficult time farming bosses.

    "Resolution for getting out into the world". With Paragon levels, Valor stacks are kinda useless. Get rid of them. Instead, add random Lore figures into the world that have a chance of dropping an associated Legendary with that mob. You said that you want more legendaries dropping from their associated character. "Butchers Cleaver dropping from the Butcher". etc.

    "Asphyxia has a chance to spawn in Act 1 Festering Woods. He drops a 2H Axe called "Breathless".

    All of a sudden, you not only have "Legendary Items" that have a chance to drop from all bosses, but now you have "Rare Legendary" items that only drop from specific bosses within the game and some of those bosses will rarely spawn in random places in certain acts.

    Those are just my ideas.

    Hope im not messing anything up here on this post, just wanted to comment, VERY GOOD IDEAs man really opens up doors, take a look at my post above see if you like it?
    Edited by Edman#1668 on 3/14/2013 9:32 AM PDT
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