Diablo® III

After Playing HOTS...Really? *This* Is How You Boss!

03/14/2013 03:57 PMPosted by DeMasked
I like the Belial fight because players can't just sit in one spot spamming their attacks (generally) and the fight is unique because it has 3 phases in which they all compromise of something different and up the challenge of the fight (minions, boss/minions, big boss). If anything I feel like Belial's second phase (when he is small) could use a few more minions popping in to help aid their master.


The only thing I don't like is the meteor shower part. Mostly because it depends a lot of RNG. It makes me feel than being lucky is needed. Once I had to move one step to not be hit. And sometimes I go right to escape some meteors and the right part become green all over the place. When I generally die from that, I look at left and there no meteor falling. If I went to left it would have been piece of cake.

03/14/2013 04:03 PMPosted by DeMasked
Bone cage can be dodged really easily though and it can be obvious when Diablo uses his animation which signals you to start running around.


I play self loot and finding a good pair of boots with 12% increased speed is not that easy. When you try to escape the bone cage with no increase speed it is harder. But 12% increase speed is all you need to make them not very dangerous. After that you just have to be a bit careful. Same goes for Belial's fist. Without increase speed a fist that will fall right on your head don't let you the time to escape. Taking two hits like that in a row make you in bad shape. It works for Diablo fire ball too. Lots of things can alter the difficulty of a fight against a boss and make them more interesting. That why the blue said the difficult part is to take into account that nobody has the same stats.

03/14/2013 08:38 PMPosted by CentaurusXVI
In D2 Diablohis fire of circle was damageing but still able to survive but his shot of fireball i ran away like a little girls and hid in the corner. make bosses fight like that.


This is what happens to me. Playing self loot and in lower difficulty does not offer a lot a way to get high regeneration. When you regenerate full life in 45 seconds, instead of 5 seconds, taking 40% of your life in some hits will probably not kill you. But you are careful to not being hit if you can do otherwise. On my DH who has the more difficulty to kill Rakanoth, I survive his teleport attack even if I am not full life. But if I am not full life I need a potion. And after that I had to survive 30 seconds with half life. He generally kill me 15 to 20 second later with normal hits or another teleportation. I need the paladin as companion (I am not using companion) for tanking the first half of the combat. Rakanoth becomes an easy prey.

A lot of players want tremendous damage to be dealt. This is because they are very strong regeneration. If you have less regeneration a strong or even a moderate strike does not kill you. But it make you in danger the time you regenerate and you feel the power of the boss a bit more. This is not true for all bosses. Cydae is not like that but mostly because of 500 health per kill which is one of the better regeneration in hell against Cydae. When I look The DPS and LL of some people, I wonder how many seconds are needed to recover full life.

I could be wrong. But regeneration is too powerful in high level and life to hard to get. If you don't have enough regeneration you are force to run in circle to wait for regeneration or potion cool down. This not very fun. But if you have to many regeneration you don't feel any damage if this not a 75% health. Which can become OS for anyone not playing melee class or without godly gears.
Edited by holce#2777 on 3/14/2013 10:46 PM PDT
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比如让boss可以像龙珠里面的比克一样生宝宝啦 像第四章里的地狱之门通道啦 召唤大军什么的 当然还可以像野蛮人的各种先祖一样 boss先祖 也就是怪兽先祖啦~ 屠夫的哥哥 大屠夫 我认为这个名字很coooooool 咳咳 认真点儿 比如 你可以暂时吸去boss的能力 获得和人物属性比例的能力
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(吸去)改(吸取)
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Dude agreed 100% i just beat HOTS on Brutal, and i gotta say, that games have Better boss fights then Diablo 3 which was funny
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In another hands you have a lot less customization in HOTS. So it is more easy to design a boss fight when you have less differences between players. I play all classes in D3. Some monsters are easy with some classes and living nightmare with others.
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We love some of our boss fights (like Belial, Butcher, and Diablo), but agree that some of them could be better. We’re certainly interested in hearing feedback about what you think could make a boss fight more fun, and would like to hear any examples you may have. The more specific, the better. The examples can come from any game, but if you’re referencing HOTS, then please try to avoid sharing any spoilers, if you can.

It’s worth noting that opinions are probably going to vary quite a bit on this. Some players may like the idea of needing to tether a charging boss to a heavy object to slow him down, (even if the strength of those tethers scaled with a hero’s power) while other players may find the mechanic a frustrating chore after a few times. Something else to consider while offering suggestions is that different games are going to have different limitations when it comes to bosses. For example in Diablo III, the encounters have to work with heroes that have different skills and power levels. I bring this up because not every game has to consider this, and designers can tune a boss knowing exactly what a player's damage output, skill selection, and health pool is going to be.


I really, really like the bosses in D3. They are tactical now, vs. the one-shotters of D2 which just exist to enforce multiplayer and are only difficult because they hit like a truck.

What I would like is if D3 bosses improved not just stats but also general difficulty through normal-inferno. By that I mean that it would be nice if their actual AI patterns included new or modified attacks on successive difficulty levels, rather than just being higher-statted versions of the same thing.

I don't want bosses to be the equivalent of the you're-almost-guaranteed-to-die-once elite/rare packs (especially because you restart a failed boss encounter, rather than retaining damage done) but I do feel that's it odd that once you know a boss's pattern, they immediately become far easier than any rare/elite pack on the same act/difficulty.

Overall, though, I like that D3's boss encounters are for more interesting than D1 or D2's. While I don't wants oops-you're-dead moments, I do like a boss that punishes me for not playing smartly.
Edited by Japhasca#1443 on 3/15/2013 2:37 AM PDT
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03/15/2013 02:35 AMPosted by Japhasca
Overall, though, I like that D3's boss encounters are for more interesting than D1 or D2's. While I don't wants oops-you're-dead moments, I do like a boss that punishes me for not playing smartly.


I agree with that. I think having less regeneration could help having punishing boss without being OS all the time. You have a chance to recover from a powerful hit but you have to be a lot more careful. With a lot of regeneration (potion spamming in D2, or insane LL in D3) the only way a boss can be challenging is insane damage.
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I disagree that console games are dumbed down. Legend of Zelda - Twilight Princess had EPIC boss battles. Each one was totally unique and it took time to figure out how to beat the boss. You had to win with skill, not buying something. The boss fights were an order of magnitude better than anything in diablo and it came out 6 years ealier.

I love this game, but not for the game mechanics. It's fun to collect stuff and build my character, and the slot machine mechanics were exciting. Multiplayer, chat, and this website was a nice touch too. However, if they had actually made a game with great gameplay, it would have been the best game ever, but as other people have pointed out, its pretty much point the mouse at the enemy, if you die, go to auction house and buy more gear ... try again until you don't die. Sure there is some skill involved in the game, but not much, don't kid yourself.


Totally agree. 1.07 seemed to kill a large of what made d3 intriguing to me. I don't get excited finding many items that I used to, and I go a week sometimes without finding a thing that will sell for over 50k. I used to play the game with more interest and excitement at the chance I could find something cool for myself or to put on the market. If the last patch was mostly aimed at making d3 more about playing the game more than having to play the AH, then make the game funner to play.

Repeating the same content again and again is going to lose its appeal unless the unique angle of the game (ah/rmah) is kept alluring and intact. I've gotten close to a point recently where after clearing a3 over and over and not finding a single thing to sell I'm just like, "Wtf am I doing, this is so pointless." Any reduction in the excitement of the economy really affects my desire to play. Crafting is fun but it doesn't make the grind any less mind-numbingly boring at times. Give us some new content, endless dungeon with varied environments, improved mechanics, improved boss fights... anything. The ubers were fun for a second but even that is beyond routine at this point mp10.

Theres my ramble
Edited by dippie#1532 on 3/15/2013 3:29 AM PDT
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We love some of our boss fights (like Belial, Butcher, and Diablo), but agree that some of them could be better. We’re certainly interested in hearing feedback about what you think could make a boss fight more fun, and would like to hear any examples you may have. The more specific, the better. The examples can come from any game, but if you’re referencing HOTS, then please try to avoid sharing any spoilers, if you can.

It’s worth noting that opinions are probably going to vary quite a bit on this. Some players may like the idea of needing to tether a charging boss to a heavy object to slow him down, (even if the strength of those tethers scaled with a hero’s power) while other players may find the mechanic a frustrating chore after a few times. Something else to consider while offering suggestions is that different games are going to have different limitations when it comes to bosses. For example in Diablo III, the encounters have to work with heroes that have different skills and power levels. I bring this up because not every game has to consider this, and designers can tune a boss knowing exactly what a player's damage output, skill selection, and health pool is going to be.

IMO, the boss fights are in pretty good shape. The problem lies in their drop chance. I remember doing boss runs in d2 and it was common to get a unique every few boss runs. There is a lot of time committed to these and they should be worth it. The current situation makes it pointless to do boss runs. Just have the player require 5 stacks to combat the current checkpoint system.

On another note, it would be interesting to have the bosses incorporate random monster affixes and spawn random elite packs. This would make boss runs always feel new and exciting!
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Diablo

To me the fight can be too long. But I don't think I would change it. I would like to see him breathe fire more often. It seems like he never uses it and it looks pretty cool to me.

Belial
Belial I like in that he adds diversity because he doesn't move around.

Azmodan
Here is this map and he never moves away from the pool. He needs to move around more. I don't want to chase him like an occultist in act 3 but he could at least move from one side of the map to the other 2 times.

Ghom
I don't know. He stinks it up pretty well. Maybe his stink cloud should poison players even when you are not in the cloud. Liek 10,000 damage over 5 seconds.
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Once you get used to moves, special attacks etc, all the boss battles become predictable - and we can basically breeze through without a worry. Only that we don't, because the rewards are not worth it. Only way to quickly improve them would be to increase the reward (1 legendary for every 10 boss battles - most of the times that still would be a crap drop) and to add 1 or 2 random generated elites to the boss battles, acting as his bodyguards.
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I would like more metamechanics during boss fights - or secondary objectives. Once you eclipse the gear requirements to defeat a boss it's simply about standing there and beating on them *yawn*

For example, on Azmodan, make the portals he spawns necessary and more difficult to take down in order to defeat him.

It would also be great if the environment could be integrated in every boss fight like with the Butcher.
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Okay so the way I would start to think of new ideas for boss fights is to look at other successful boss fights in other games.

First off the boss's need to be more engaging. Keeping in mind that D3 is an action rpg.
Right now many of us probably feel all bosses except for maybe Belial are all about smacking them in the head quick and hard.
Im just gonna list some ideas:

-Leroic could have those pillars, that you destroy before fighting him, in his throne room. Those pillars would be constantly pumping out skellies. The attack where he starts flinging his sword everywhere should have a longer reach and knock back and daze. The pillars should have a lot more life and when one is destroyed we can not damage the others till after 10 secs or so. Leroics life could also be divided into 4 parts. After a pillar is destroyed then we are able to damage 25% of his life.

-Belial
What if the platform we were on would slowly chip away. and once it all goes we drop or have to move to another platform. This changes the environment in which we're fighting him and makes it more engaging. And another thing is, this is my opinion, Diablo's fight where we fight versions of ourselves should probably have been in Belials fight as he is master of illusions.

-Azmodan
This guy is obese at the moment. Im not afraid of him because he just sits there! His abilities need to be more interesting, heck i dont mind if theyre funny. Like he could run on top of a player and sit on him! I always picture this happening. Imho he is by far the worst boss in D3 and I dont have any real thought out ideas for him other than more mobility.

-Diablo
Not very interesting but I feel like it fits. Diablo is supposed to strike terror in us players and so he gets up in our face which is good and appropriate. But again he should be a beast you dont want to be close to. He could maybe grab a player and throw him across the room. The spikes that encage you should instead impale you and leave the player immoblized for a time.
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Just finished a mission called 'Supreme'. In the game, on Hard mode, I've had 5 epic boss fights (no spoilers) against awesome, varied and mechanical bosses that really made me appreciate just how good this sort of stuff could be.

And it made me think of Diablo...in a bad way. One of the things that I disliked about the game was just how samey and unoriginal the bosses were mechanically.

Blizzard - why didn't you get *these* guys to work on D3?


Starcraft II was made with intentions of being a hugely popular competitive E-Sport, and is the flagship game from Blizzard Entertainment.

Diablo on the other hand was meant to be fun, non-competitive, and not taken as serious as Starcraft II. You can tell the difference in the effort and thought that goes into the two games by the difficulty and mechanics. Although RTS and ARPG are completly different game types, the amount of time, energy, and effort is obviously different between them.
Edited by darkeN#1766 on 3/15/2013 8:31 AM PDT
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lol, the problem is these ARE the guys they have working on D3. and the same team that has been pumping out exactly 3 games rehashed over and over and over and over for the last 20 years damn near. and what's happened? they don't know how to do anything different or spectacular or NEW. It's just the same rehashed crap. over and over and over. wait til they go WotLK all over D3 and make it so stupid that all of the original players don't want anything to do with it.
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The Spider
- This spider area is one of my favorites but the boss not so much. But i think it was headed in the right direction. I may be a bit extreme since afterall he is just a miniboss but here goes. The whole in the middle should have hundreds of tiny spiders come out every now and then. When the boss goes to hiding there should be a lot more spiders coming out of those holes like 4x more. Also when the boss goes into hiding i feel like he should somehow attack us and immoblize us with his web. There should also be a charge ability where he tramples someone and stings him causing a lot of poison damage over time.

The Butcher
-My fav! change his dialogue! oh and PoE ripped you off haha.

Maghda
-First off shame on you blizz for this butterfly! But what can we do except fix it by making more terrifying. Grab some nasty inspiration from insects in real life... The battlefield is much to clean there should cacoons everywhere! She should turn into some sort of moth creature or something that can swallow us whole! She should reflect damage on every now and then. The berserkers she summons should be like the shatterbone you fight previously not some pathetic worms. We need to realize that she was actually powerful and tormenting in order to believe that she actually killed cain.

Zoltun Kulle
- In the right direction but make gollums more sturdy and maybe more of them and give them new abilities like rock throw or something.

Ghom
-First of all how did he get in there. He doesnt fit thru the doorway! The poison cloud engages us very well so i think hes fine.

Cydea
- not much to say since she seems like a copy from the previous spider boss in act1.
maybe she should be able to make us run and cower in fear.
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i loved the fight against gothik the harvester in wow, at naxxramas.

the group is splitted in two sides with many monsters...but wouldnt work at a soloboss, just in 4 man groups
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<- My D3 Account (well, not my main, I have a CE account with an authenticator but not at work).

I'll be playing HotS later tonight or tomorrow! I'm so excited!


It's really good. Also sad, because in a lot of places it's a better ARPG than Diablo 3 :|. Play it on hard, wait for the mission called Supreme.

This is how you do a boss fight.


NOT arpg...

Starcraft is a RTS
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Community Manager
Posts: 1,997
There is a lot of good feedback here. I want to thank all of you for sharing your thoughts, encourage you to keep it going, and let you know that I am still keeping an eye on this. :)
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It's all about scale! Belial was a great fight because the scale literally felt epic as hell. I felt like an ant compared to him, which made finally killing him that much more satisfying. I think the Diablo fight was fun, but lacked the overall epic feel of Belial. I liken the feeling to some fights in God of War. Make bosses bigger and badder.
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