Diablo® III

How many legendaries should be junk when you find em?

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03/19/2013 05:42 AMPosted by AxeLord


I am talking about ways of having fun while waiting for the fix. Otherwise you are only crying and my not even be there when they do fix itemization. Heck it might be years before you would return to D3. Only when you hear your friends say that itemization was fixed a long time ago and we hare having a blast.

A little laughter is good for the sole. Also I still have fun playing D3 from time to time. Right now though I have issues with another game. I want to get some of my characters in The Secret World better gear and more abilities. That is why I decided to take a bit of a vacation on this game. I do that with all games that I play. I am not a one game only game player.

I've found:
2 - EF's - both brimstoned
2 Lacuni's - both brimstoned

There is simply too much variation in the loot. People figure out what is the best one, and within a few days everything else becomes trash. This will never change until loot is made much more simliar with fixed properties. At that point what will become the most valued for example will be lacuni's with 6% crit perfect 80 all resist. And Lacuni's with only 3% CC will not have near the value.


The true fix to itemization is to give us more than the one right way we have of gearing up our characters. Different right answers as far as gearing up our characters will be the true solution to itemization. Also it is a smart move for Blizz to do so. Because more items that have a higher value. Mean that Blizz will get more profit from the RMAH. Due to players wanting those items.

And these different right answers will not cause us a loss in performance. Sure there will still be a true BiS. But if the difference is only 5% at best. Then other players will not mind a 5% loss in performance if they are having fun with the build they are playing.
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The way this game is designed, 99% of everything you pick up is going to be garbage. Regardless of how they change items. Simply because the auction house exists.

I just want items to at least have a CHANCE of being good. Which is not the case for over half the rare / legendary items that drop in inferno. Wizard spike (level 63 legendary dagger) can never be good for example.

Every item needs a chance to be bad and a chance to be good. Dead man's quiver is always good, sometimes great. Rare quivers no longer worth picking up because of that. Same applies to Inna's radiance, and many other legendaries.

If you make legendaries with guaranteed great stats, you just devalued all the rares of that equipment type. And 2 weeks after the patch, those guaranteed great items will be worth nothing once again.

Right now even less than 1% of what you find is worthwhile, because of the fact that some legendaries are guaranteed great stats.

Lacuni prowlers is a great example of a legendary done right. Highest possible damage (but not guaranteed) + movement speed on bracers...at the cost of survivability or other luxury stats. And what do you know, rare bracers are still worth picking up. Witching hour - highest possible damage, guaranteed. Not losing out on defensive / luxury stats on a great roll. Low and behold, rare belts not worth picking up.
Edited by DeadDragon#1455 on 3/19/2013 6:52 PM PDT
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Id' say 90% of them if not more are a brimstone when you find them.

I'm curious as to what everyone thinks on how many of them should be valued as a brimstone?
You really could find 10 pairs of say Lacuni's in a row or even 10 Echo fury's in a row and they could all be worthless. Nothing more than a brimstone. I've already found 2 of each and both were brimstones.

Soo.. Should 20% be a brimstone? 40%? 60%?

Is the 90% the way it really should be ?


Close to 95% probably. All junk, I don't even get excited anymore when I see/hear one has dropped. I mean literally does nothing for me. If anything it creates an uneasy feeling inside of me...that my subconscious preparing me for a terrible roll.
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Doesn't matter how crappy the item is, someone at some time will buy it. Just price it cheap.
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Item upgrades is the only solution to the problem of "eventually everyone has BiS and then all legends are worthless".

Allow items to be upgraded, affixes to be added, rolls to be improved. It will wean us off the AH teat. It will make us emotionally attached to our gear.

Allow that 2-sock 950DPS Manticore to be whipped into battle-readiness. Allow all those crappy Legends to be overclocked so high your head will spin.
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Was doing some MP3 runs for exp and got a legendary that didnt even salvage into a brimestone. WTF is that?
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03/19/2013 09:38 PMPosted by Fscreams
Doesn't matter how crappy the item is, someone at some time will buy it. Just price it cheap.


have fun wasting time 30 mins listing items to get 200k gold a day.
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Was doing some MP3 runs for exp and got a legendary that didnt even salvage into a brimestone. WTF is that?


You got shaded...

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/item/dark-mages-shade
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Id' say 90% of them if not more are a brimstone when you find them.........................

Soo.. Should 20% be a brimstone? 40%? 60%?

Is the 90% the way it really should be ?


Only 90%? You are doing way better than me if only 90 percent are brimstone.
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Posts: 1,076
90% of the legs being brimstone is !@#$ing good luck.

It's more like 99% for me. Like seriously, so many ivory tower/hellrack/sultan/sledge/etc. drop for me.
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I been getting trolled a lot with helm drops. I be like OMG a Mempo...Nope another crappy Andariel
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Every item needs a chance to be bad and a chance to be good. Dead man's quiver is always good, sometimes great. Rare quivers no longer worth picking up because of that. Same applies to Inna's radiance, and many other legendaries.

I disagree with this completely.

Some legendaries should always be good and have a chance to be great. And rares of the same item slot should have a chance to roll great and equal the legendary of the slot and also have the chance to be lousy. This does not mean I think all legendaries should always be good, because we need brimstones too. If I ran through the item slots I think it should look like this.

All of these would be level 60 legendaries:

Helm - 1 always great, 2 always good chance for great, 2 never great
Shoulders - 1 always great, 3 always good and chance to be great
Amulet - 1 always great, 3 always good chance for great, 1 always good, and 1 never good
Ring - 1, always great, 2 always good chance for great, 1 never good
Chest - 1 always great, 4 always good chance for great, 1 chance to be good or great, 1 never good
Gloves - 2 always great, 1 always good chance for great, 2 never good
Bracers - 2 always great, 2 always good chance for great, 2 almost good, 2 never good
Belt - 1 always great, 1 always good chance for great, 2 never good
Pants - 1 always great, 1 always good chance for great, 1 almost good, 1 never good
Boots - 1 always great, 2 always good chance for great, 1 always good, 1 almost good, 1 never good

always great - these roll fixed stats with slight variations you won't find a bad one
always good chance for great - these roll fixed stats with maybe 1 random property that could roll great It will always be a good item and it could roll a trifecta
always good - these roll fixed stats but the numbers may be reduced or only have 1 of them with higher numbers. These would never be a trifecta type item but are still useful most of the time.
almost good - these roll maybe 1-2 fixed stat. No trifectas. but there are quite a few brimstones here.
never good - these are brimstones (we do still need those)

I just whipped this up in 2 minutes and I'd have to review all the currrent items we have to see what would really be in each category but it's more of a ball park summary of how I think legendaries should roll. Obviously we would need more legenaries in each item slot. It's more the principal of what I am after rather than the specifics.
Edited by AxeLord#1992 on 3/21/2013 7:00 AM PDT
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I've said something similar to this in some other threads but my suggestions for itemization would include:

Giving us other legendary to compete with BIS items but with trade off stats. SInce the DPS game is all about Hi Weap DPS w/ CC&CD&AIS&+/- damage. Unless they want to change this formula completely then I suggest items such as:

Give us a helm with CD and AIS but no CC.

Give us a comparible legendary to Lacuni Bracers but with stats like AIS and CD instead of AIS and CC. Make it so they always come with CD/AIS but never have CC.

The same with giving us more items, outside of the standard, with more CC, such as on pants, belt, chest but more than the 1% that you find now. Balance it by not including primary stats or no sockets on pants & chest.

Give us 3 BIS belt alternatives like Witching Hour, one with CC(>1%,maybe ~4%-8%) and CD, one with AIS and CC, and keep the WH as is.

Give us weapons with High DPS but no sockets or CD. Like a 2000 dps 2h for example. A weapon like this could be very desirable for particular builds and inspire build diversity.

Give us items like gloves that can come with 50%-100% CD but no AIS or CC.

Give us rings with 6%-10% CC but without CD or AIS. This could be done with each of the trifecta stats by doubling it while not allowing for the other 2 to be included with it.

Give us non-jewelry items with +/- damage with a trade off with other stats, like no CC on bracers, or no sockets on legs and chest.

The same example can be used for defensive stats as well, give us items with 120 AR but no life % or higher life% and no AR.

And more items like these giving us more option to gear up but still end up with the same/best stats obtainable. If balanced correctly, there would be numerous ways for obtaining the highest possible stats with several different sets of gear. As it stands right now, there is dam near a BIS for every item resulting in everyone having/wanting the exact same legendarys.
Edited by Deadzors#1394 on 3/21/2013 7:29 AM PDT
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Doomherald
Just my opinion, I think legendaries should not have the random affixes. Having low end and high end legendaries is a good thing, not everything should be godly powerful. Also weapon damage for legendaries has too large a gap. Take Echoing Fury for example, it can roll between 687 and 1323 dps. This is a crazy huge damage difference that doesn't make sense to me.


I totally agree and even proposed a question on this topic in the last ask the Devs. It hasn't gotten a response yet, but my fingers are crossed. Here was my input:

There should not be such a huge deviation in dmg on legendaries that one can roll 600dps and another can roll 1200dps. This makes no sense at all. I could understand 1100-1200dps, but anything beyond that is a joke. Further, any legendary that has a dps lower than what is capable on a rare is a disappointment altogether. This issue must be addressed due to the fact that weapon dps is the single most important attribute on all your gear.

So how do we address this issue? Here is a quick idea: start by having all non-primary stat attributes on a legendary fixed. By this I mean stats like Resists all and crit chance. These would be stats that are guaranteed on any single item with a set value of xx-xx or x-x%. The primary stat is guaranteed to be xx-xx, but could be str, dex or int. Vile wards is a good example: Resists All is guaranteed at 75-80%, vitality guaranteed at 50-100, % life guaranteed at 10-12%, life regen guaranteed at 250-300 per sec...then 200-300 random primary stat.
*The obvious exception here is class specific weapons (bows, mighty wpns, etc), which would be guaranteed a class primary stat.
* legendary weapons should have a set min-max damage value that keeps them all useable. Then only the perfect percentage rolls would be overly inflated on the AH.
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Currently brimstone is a necessary part of the game when it comes to crafting amulets. I don't know anyone who crafts legendary items, so basically it has no other value. Still, it is a needed item, and you need lots of it to roll a good amulet. Of course you also need lots of gems and gold too. Point is, there have to be a large amount of bad legendaries so that people will make brimstone. Do I think 99% is the right amount, probably not, but its hard to say what is the right amount.

Blizz is currently discussing increasing value of legs and reducing the number of drops. While this will be a great move in the right direction for legendary items (as long as the DPS issue is addressed), it will certainly effect the crafting community. Hopefully this is well considered before implementation. Honestly, the fact that brimstone is required to make a rare amulet baffles me in the first place.
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Currently brimstone is a necessary part of the game when it comes to crafting amulets. I don't know anyone who crafts legendary items, so basically it has no other value. Still, it is a needed item, and you need lots of it to roll a good amulet. Of course you also need lots of gems and gold too. Point is, there have to be a large amount of bad legendaries so that people will make brimstone. Do I think 99% is the right amount, probably not, but its hard to say what is the right amount.

Blizz is currently discussing increasing value of legs and reducing the number of drops. While this will be a great move in the right direction for legendary items (as long as the DPS issue is addressed), it will certainly effect the crafting community. Hopefully this is well considered before implementation. Honestly, the fact that brimstone is required to make a rare amulet baffles me in the first place.

If they would make a legendary worth crafting and not one that is +4 random properties

Then I think someone would craft it. I think it should be the same as the BOA craftables except, 1) not BOA 2) more expensive 3) slightly...maybe 30% less random than crafting BOA ammies for example
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03/21/2013 07:39 AMPosted by xxxLawDogxxx
Blizz is currently discussing increasing value of legs and reducing the number of drops. While this will be a great move in the right direction for legendary items (as long as the DPS issue is addressed), it will certainly effect the crafting community. Hopefully this is well considered before implementation. Honestly, the fact that brimstone is required to make a rare amulet baffles me in the first place.


I don't believe they plan on adjusting the legendary drop rates/quality such as they stated with the rares. I think they will adjust some quality or even revise certain legendary items but I think the drop rate will be unaffected.

Also, they did however already address the issue with forging rares if they reduce the drop rate by increasing the mats you will receive when you forge an item. So if they do decrease any drop rates, rares or legendary, it seems they will adjust the amount of mats from forging accordingly to balance.
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I guess I'm just unlucky. My DH is a Paragon 41, and I have found my share of Legendary's. Not 1 has had any reason for me to keep it for use. I therefore, slavage them, or give them away. I reallize that I have some preety decent stuff but, I would like to get just 1 Legenday, or Rare drop that makes me get up and do a fist pump. I have no qualms about the drop rate.
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What am I like, 80 something now, lets see here...

numerous Manticore (6-7ish), not one with the second socket.

Yet to this day to get any Mempo, not to mention one with crit.

Many a Skorn, none with LS or any with viable DPS either (like1200 dps or lower).

I think I've got one pair of Ice climbers but not even as good as the pair I swap between my mage and barb (which I bought).

Got a few (3-4ish) Lacuni but not a one with crit.

And so many other legendary items that immediately upon seeing on the ground, I know exactly what they are and that their complete junk before I even pick up, not to mention ID. I sorta feel this is the problem, they should make it so all good legendary are good every time or make it so that every legendary has a chance to be good or near BIS.

It sucks that 85% (being generous) are junk as soon as they hit the ground. And then the other 15% are still junk 90% of the time after ID'ing.
Edited by Deadzors#1394 on 3/21/2013 8:24 AM PDT
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Also, they did however already address the issue with forging rares if they reduce the drop rate by increasing the mats you will receive when you forge an item. So if they do decrease any drop rates, rares or legendary, it seems they will adjust the amount of mats from forging accordingly to balance.


Currently it only requires 1 brimstone to forge/craft a amulet. Hard to see it going any lower unless they change the brimstone requirement to tears and infernal material (which it should have been in the first place for a rare craft).
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