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Did a little testing with Nirvana myself last night and I gotta say its a pretty beautiful thing.
Great work by Fitz, Countfury, and all those in between.
Anyway, the best crit I could come up with is here, http://i39.tinypic.com/fcs4zl.png
Now, that was when I was testing the Explosive Light rune which is apparently only 914% wp dmg.
When trying to use the WoL rune, 1202% wp dmg, I wasn't killing elites nearly as efficiently or putting up the same crit numbers. Of course this could be just my negligence and not being able to notice the higher crits but it just didn't seem to have the same effect.
- Pillar of the Ancients works like a charm and I think is the most viable. Also is acceptable for group play.
- Explosive light, massive AOE, absolutely destroys trash mobs, keeps you safe because of a huge amount of KB, but also slows gameplay because of so much KB. Completely unusable for group play
- WoL, the damage seems to be the least even though the multiplier is the highest. The KB is annoying and causes Elite packs to take extra, unneccessary seconds. Unusable in group play
So I was wondering if you (Fitz), or anyone else, noticed anything similar to this.
**Did all my testing with the build in my profile and the gear except with an EF offhand
Pillar is excellent for group play with the right setup can produce just downright silly dps.
Explosive Light seems like more damage because it does the full 914% in one hit, whereas Pillar does it in 2 hits, and WoL does it in three + the straight line damage.
WoL has the highest damage of all runes.
If you see a 5mil crit with EL that would be a 3.25mil crit with Pillar that would hit twice, equaling 6.5 mil damage.
Edited by Fitz#1329 on 6/17/2013 12:40 PM PDT
I've tried out this build (on MP10, as always) and I do have to say;
it's awesome! I really dig it! However, I mostly play with friends so anything else besides Pillar is, indeed, unusable.
I went with a DW setup, stuck with the sword I already had and got an EF with 0.24 attacks and 2.5 LS. I already had LS on my sword. I also got a really nice Inna's Radiance with Life Per Spirit Spent and AR.
Now, first off, LPSS is actually super awesome for this build. I haven't seen it mentioned a lot in this thread, but it actually felt like a no-brainer for me. I could tank really well with over 5 LS and 60 LPSS. (it also helps I have over 600k EHP)
Sadly, my DPS was only 155k w/ a 6/30/4 SoJ and while the dmg output was quite nice, it didn't feel overwhelmingly OP. This is probably because my DPS was pretty low, a.o. due to the sword not being a spear. I did put a Ruby in the sword, of course. Getting a spear without LS and a bunch of high avg dmg and crit would be the way to go, since you could probably get away with 2.5 LS and the LPSS.
I do firmly believe that, when you have over 200k DPS, this build absolutely slays. However, right now, I feel my Backlash / Combination Strike / EP build (with WKL and Inna's Radiance with FoT) feels better. With that build, even with 148k DPS, I just seem to kill faster and due to the nature of a Backlash build, I'm constantly dodging and dealing dmg, which makes tanking an absolute breeze, as is tagging monsters, which is great in group play.
Also, the downside to the Nirvana build, for me, was the KB of FoF and the apparant small KB of the Pillars. I had to compensate with CS. While CS is awesome, it's also a spirit spender and I'd rather use the time to lay down even more pillars, haha. I also didn't have BoY, not because I don't like it, but just because I was a @@!!%*@%% and didn't feel like swapping out StI (OwE would be hard, since I'm a Fire monk).
Both the Blacklash build and the Nirvana build are terrible for single targets. For both builds I need to drag the remaining elite along to a new group. Now, personally, I don't find this a problem, but not all of my friends have the same instincts and when they keep pounding on the elite, it just won't follow me. However, this is something I should just discuss with my friends. ;)
Anyways, I still have the EF, the SoJ and the other Radiance in my stash and am definitely not done with this build yet! I'll wait 'til I can improve on it further, it has a LOT of potential!
Edited by Arafúra#2108 on 6/10/2013 6:00 AM PDT
I would always recommend using a CS build if you are the only monk in a group. I usually recommend 2 monks in a group so one can spam pillars though too!
LpSS is relatively unnecessary I feel as you get higher dps. The LS you get from the WoL damage makes you, quite frankly, invincible during Nirvana as long as you don't get one-shotted.
If you are able to utilize BoY I can assure you this setup will in most cases out-dps the Cookie builds.
DS can help in groups when that happens. DS out, tag a few monsters, DS in and drop away.
If you really want to see it shine, as I said before, use BoY and put a ruby in your MH.
Anyway, hope you enjoy! Thanks for the feedback ad post.
Got inspired by Druin's FoM Two-Hander build. Been practicing with this and its pretty awesome for mobs per hour:
Adding this build into the mix because it is incredibly useful on trash mob runs in FoM. DS around, tagging mobs with EP and herding them together, pop NIrvana, drop some bells and watch the explosions as you DS to the next mob.
Nice thread Fitz, I came across similar information from other sources and after some research, I found this thread and it seems to be the origin or at least the most official place of this technique. I will be showing this in my stream today, hope you don't mind. Keep up the good work ;) and Monk is Awesome!
Edited by INVIS#2291 on 6/17/2013 3:47 AM PDT
For a while, bugs have been logged for WoL/Wall of Light not outputting the expected amount of dmg. Some have said it is not registering one of it's 3 hits due to high attack speed (e.g. 2handers likely won't have this issue whereas DW's likely will).
Here's just one of the many examples of logged bugs (this one being a lil more helpful since the person provided some minimal testing results):
I've done some minimal testing as well and found the same thing...just ended up sticking with WoL/EL instead. awesome for solo-ing...and as you guys mentioned, shiet for group-play. haha i was hated by friends for using it. I think with the right combo for other skills (my build: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/monk#UXSYge!bVX!bYccYZ) it's still good for group Ubers. With my build, when i'm building NV stacks with the group, i just don't use the bells. i rely on cyclones/BoH/BF for dmg (albeit lower than when blasting with WoL/EL). Once we hit ubers, I blast away...only two ubers most of the time (minus adds on Sk/Magdha and Ghom/Raka) anyways and you can't knock 'em back. The build is perfect for smashing ubers. :)
anyways hope this helps.
EDIT: I'd also like to thank Fitz et al for this build. Made me able to solo mp lvls higher than i would have with any other build and with my budget gear at the time. Even I still love it.
Edited by MrBOoMBaSTiC#2997 on 6/17/2013 12:50 PM PDT
I have not encountered bugs like the one you linked with an attack speed of 2.77. Also, that post is from patch 1.0.4.
The reason people think the damage is low on Wave rune is typically because they do not know the damage is broken into 3 hits + the straight line damage.
So they see this:
Blue Bells doing 3 mil crits
Pillars doing 2.5 mil crits
Waves doing 1.67 mil crits
They incorrectly believe that Wave is not doing as much damage when in reality what is happening is this:
Blue Bell does 3 mil crit in one hit
Pillar does 2.5 mil crit twice = 5 mil
Wave does 1.67 mil crit, with possibility of critting two times more in the same hit for 5 mil damage.
Hope that helps people with the confusion.
Please note I am not saying there are no bugs with WoL. I am saying I have not encountered any noticeable ones though in the multiple thousands of Bells I have dropped, including testing and recording.
Yep good points...again i did minimal testing and I guess just never/noticed Wall of Light doing 3 consecutive crits. Kinda just went with how fast i was clearing stuff rather than numbers, and found EL to be better for me. Just the way EL works is (IMO) better for soloing. when you got masses of mobs on you, you just jump in the middle and blast away...when you're outta nirvana, the ones you didn't annihilate all start crawling back to you just to get blasted again ;P
Again, thanks for the build :)
I just picked up a sword for 50mil to test it out.
I'm always a dual LS guy but why not for my 2nd monk right? haha
I gotta get used to this playstyle though. Died couple times to elites that I could have easily faceroll. haha
How do you deal with Reflects and nasty packs? Just wait for the pulse to go away? Any other way to do it more efficiently?
what? No double LS now? =P
you can drop the bell on reflect down
you can also try to pull other mobs in so your bell hit them as well
I suggest you upping your AR just a tad
have fun! =)
*ohh and I'm so Jelly lol
50 mil down for a test weapon XD
Edited by QHTran#1403 on 6/17/2013 1:27 PM PDT
Haha for my 2nd monk, I'm trying to do everything that I hated to do on my main monk.
Single LS / EF / Non Litany Ring.
haha thanks for the tip. I'll try to test out the sword more tonight after work.
Died couple times but had so much fun with this weapon.
And yeah, I'm gonna pick up more All Res for sure. Most of my gears were like leftover in my stash. Taking it slowly this time. Having a blast lvling him up! woot woot
RD packs I wep swap to Dual LS. By the way, nice weapon for 50 mil.
The build does take time to get down. IT definitely is not a plug and play type of build. The biggest problem "habit" I had to break was killing every single monster before moving on. Now I always leave the stragglers to chase me so I can tag them before dropping the pain on the next group.
Anyway, let me know how you make out with it!
P.S. Get a ruby on your MH!
P.S.S. Oh and by the way: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wj2OqbmHN7A&feature=youtu.be
Edited by Fitz#1329 on 6/17/2013 2:23 PM PDT
Thanks for the post!
Okay, I'll just carry my regular weapon in the stash for the RD ones. Others seemed fine.
And as for using the build, I've running various nirvana builds for a long time. I was just curious if you had any magical way of dealing with RD packs! haha
But yeah, dropping bells at 2.9aps rate is crazy fun. Your mainhand looked good for the build, so I snagged one for testing. It's fun for sure. DSing feels much smoother with higher aps too since it scales with aps. I'll test it out with WH over my Inna's belt to maximize the aps. Will have to do some testing to find out if extra aps on the belt slot is worth it over Inna''s bonus + cc/dmg% on the belt. Will see.
I have some GG Inna's chest in my stash, but I want to stick with Tal chest on this 2nd monk. Looks like Red Velvet cake on the male monk. LOL
Nice one on the video! :)
Well, Invis and Modz streaming the build today. Guess the age of Cookie/EP has ended.
Haha most of the viable build options that monks have are all great.
All have Pros/Cons, but nirvana is definitely one of the most fun/effective builds. Love it. :)
What's your upgrade list in terms of gearing? Just curious!
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