Diablo® III

Nirvana Build Discussion Thread and Guide

Alright, it's time we expand on this kingdom of Nirvana.
Fitz, change the title back to what you named it. This build was mine that began it, and now it's yours, and you shall rule it with an iron fist. I am a spirit that watches over you, I will be here always, til the end of time, now go forth and conquer.

Find lost monks and bring them to the kingdom, for never again shall they thirst for spirit. All they need is Faith. For every 10 seconds of pain and poverty, there will be 5 of bliss.

You are a Scorpio, which represents survival of the fittest. We have suffered and endured silence, secrecy and opposition, and we've survived. This is a new system of the Monk, Nirvana has passed the trial of time, now it's time the circle expand and increase.

If they don't listen, then use Force.
The force is your WORD. Go, and carry out my will.
Nirvana the rock band? Me soooo confused, I'm going back to my self found monks.
hahah this is awesome
welcome back LR/CF

06/18/2013 08:57 PMPosted by Angelthirst
For every 10 seconds of pain and poverty, there will be 5 of bliss.

this is why I play .. gives me the thrill XD
Does anyone run nirvana in S/b?

Just curious as I have a shield with like 15x+dex, 15x+vit, 10CC, 5 WoLCC. Can't remember the other stats but it's rather cool. Maybe i'll try it out.
Here is the crux of the issue IMO:

1. There is a general knowledge that higher average damage produces a harder hitting bell.
2. Prior to this build, damage per spirit spent was the norm for assessing the value of a weapon using Bells.
3. This general knowledge has lead people to believe that fast weapons are not good for dropping bells.

Here is why in many cases a faster weapon can out perform a slower weapon with this build:

1. Rubies increase their average damage adjustment based on weapon speed.
2. Blind increases its damage based on attack speed.
3. Nirvana gives you unlimited spirit for a period of time, so no longer does damage per spirit spent matter as the end all be all. Dropping more bells during that phase can deal more damage than slower weapons, with the added benefit of also giving you faster spirit regen during the cooldown phase.

Compare the two:

* I will not show all the math here. Also, I am using Invis' build with an emerald as in his profile because I don't feel like figuring out how much actual dps a ruby would provide him. I gather he uses an emerald though when playing this build from his last post.

Invis MH damage: 128,835 on 300,424 pdps
My MH damage: 113,573 on 241,075 pdps (110,065 dps on 204,493 pdps with 6/27/5 SoJ)

Invis +20% pdps (+68%)
Invis + MH Avg Dmg +12% (+15%)

Invis has Overawe only buffed Bell dps of: 4,411,668 dps (5,735,168 versus Es with SoJ)
I have Overawe only buffed Bell dps of: 4,198,267 dps (4,869,024 versus Es with SoJ)

Invis Overawe Bell dps +4% (+15.2% Es)

Invis has Blind + Overawe Bell dps of: 7,808,427
I have Blind + Overawe Bell dps of: 7,687,733 dps

Invis Blind + Overawe Bell dps +1.6%

So despite having far more costly gear than I have, including a "slow high average main hand weapon," and significantly higher pdps there is very little difference in our actual dps, the majority of which comes from his perfectly rolled SoJ. My SoJ teh suxxorz!

This may come across as arrogant, but:

I will never give out advice for people to go with spear and mace unless they know what they are doing.


I think I illustrated my point rather well.

EDIT: I forgot to add in the 7% WoL CC on Invis' SOJ on original calculations. With that factored in, you do indeed outdps me on elites, but I am close! I guess I have to somehow get one of those, lol.


@Fitz

I vote you than Invis, you:
1. Great combine skill and gears, not only base Hight dps
2. Learn and make experiment about skill, share with other monk in this forum

@ Invis

Very nice hight hight dps (more cost than Fitz'geras lol), BUT... With your hight cost' gears, how time your records ubers solo in MP 10?
06/18/2013 11:55 PMPosted by Cayzer
Does anyone run nirvana in S/b?


I bought a relatively cheap shield with CC and WoL CC and it works out well.
Here is the crux of the issue IMO:

1. There is a general knowledge that higher average damage produces a harder hitting bell.
2. Prior to this build, damage per spirit spent was the norm for assessing the value of a weapon using Bells.
3. This general knowledge has lead people to believe that fast weapons are not good for dropping bells.

Here is why in many cases a faster weapon can out perform a slower weapon with this build:

1. Rubies increase their average damage adjustment based on weapon speed.
2. Blind increases its damage based on attack speed.
3. Nirvana gives you unlimited spirit for a period of time, so no longer does damage per spirit spent matter as the end all be all. Dropping more bells during that phase can deal more damage than slower weapons, with the added benefit of also giving you faster spirit regen during the cooldown phase.

Compare the two:

* I will not show all the math here. Also, I am using Invis' build with an emerald as in his profile because I don't feel like figuring out how much actual dps a ruby would provide him. I gather he uses an emerald though when playing this build from his last post.

Invis MH damage: 128,835 on 300,424 pdps
My MH damage: 113,573 on 241,075 pdps (110,065 dps on 204,493 pdps with 6/27/5 SoJ)

Invis +20% pdps (+68%)
Invis + MH Avg Dmg +12% (+15%)

Invis has Overawe only buffed Bell dps of: 4,411,668 dps (5,735,168 versus Es with SoJ)
I have Overawe only buffed Bell dps of: 4,198,267 dps (4,869,024 versus Es with SoJ)

Invis Overawe Bell dps +4% (+15.2% Es)

Invis has Blind + Overawe Bell dps of: 7,808,427
I have Blind + Overawe Bell dps of: 7,687,733 dps

Invis Blind + Overawe Bell dps +1.6%

So despite having far more costly gear than I have, including a "slow high average main hand weapon," and significantly higher pdps there is very little difference in our actual dps, the majority of which comes from his perfectly rolled SoJ. My SoJ teh suxxorz!

This may come across as arrogant, but:



I think I illustrated my point rather well.

EDIT: I forgot to add in the 7% WoL CC on Invis' SOJ on original calculations. With that factored in, you do indeed outdps me on elites, but I am close! I guess I have to somehow get one of those, lol.


@Fitz

I vote you than Invis, you:
1. Great combine skill and gears, not only base Hight dps
2. Learn and make experiment about skill, share with other monk in this forum

@ Invis

Very nice hight hight dps (more cost than Fitz'geras lol), BUT... With your hight cost' gears, how time your records ubers solo in MP 10?


I am new to this technique so I am here to learn. There are more than one build to play for monk (which is awesome!) and I have been known for other builds and I have my expertise in the exploding world. My gear set it's just what I could find or purchased which doesn't give me any trouble to play the game what ever i want. And it' not something which I say it's best for this or that, it's more like a personal interest or goal when I build my set. And I do not like to just play with one build too if you have seen me live you would know.

It is great we have informative community and poster like Fitz, I do not think being a streamer make me anything special.

There are always pro and cons of different build depending on what you are fighting, this build comes pretty top in my list of effective DPS but in some cases i will still prefer another build to increase efficiency. But the way I would like to think about it is D3 is a great game that doesn't limit our-self into one build only, it's not like you have to re-train your character in order to play different spec. So the best spec will be the one gives you the most efficiency and also fun at the same time. It always ok to switch to a more fun build but losses efficiency. So because of this technique, it make some fun build possible and that is just great.

If you are wondering my Uber kill time on mp10 solo, i uses different build on different bosses and this was done a month ago with first try only,
Skeleton King & Magdha 1m40s
Ghom & Rakanoth 42s
Siege & Kulle 2m20s

Whether i used the most effective build on these ubers? I don't know, at least I think so, but I also know there are new things for me to learn and explore everyday, apart from this build, there are still yet information to be discover and learn, and that's why I am here.
@Invis

You should try Bells + EP in areas like Fields of Misery. It is pretty fun and really really effective.

Add in Dashing Strike to gather up mobs, drop a few EPs then drop the Bell on them and watch things explode!
@Invis

You should try Bells + EP in areas like Fields of Misery. It is pretty fun and really really effective.

Add in Dashing Strike to gather up mobs, drop a few EPs then drop the Bell on them and watch things explode!


Yup, I have been playing with that already, i actually do VOA, since farming legendary is not my thing, I only farm for DE now, and I uses dashing strike there with Transcendence, with no Life steal for max damage. pretty fun :)


@Fitz

I vote you than Invis, you:
1. Great combine skill and gears, not only base Hight dps
2. Learn and make experiment about skill, share with other monk in this forum

@ Invis

Very nice hight hight dps (more cost than Fitz'geras lol), BUT... With your hight cost' gears, how time your records ubers solo in MP 10?


I am new to this technique so I am here to learn. There are more than one build to play for monk (which is awesome!) and I have been known for other builds and I have my expertise in the exploding world. My gear set it's just what I could find or purchased which doesn't give me any trouble to play the game what ever i want. And it' not something which I say it's best for this or that, it's more like a personal interest or goal when I build my set. And I do not like to just play with one build too if you have seen me live you would know.

It is great we have informative community and poster like Fitz, I do not think being a streamer make me anything special.

There are always pro and cons of different build depending on what you are fighting, this build comes pretty top in my list of effective DPS but in some cases i will still prefer another build to increase efficiency. But the way I would like to think about it is D3 is a great game that doesn't limit our-self into one build only, it's not like you have to re-train your character in order to play different spec. So the best spec will be the one gives you the most efficiency and also fun at the same time. It always ok to switch to a more fun build but losses efficiency. So because of this technique, it make some fun build possible and that is just great.

If you are wondering my Uber kill time on mp10 solo, i uses different build on different bosses and this was done a month ago with first try only,
Skeleton King & Magdha 1m40s
Ghom & Rakanoth 42s
Siege & Kulle 2m20s

Whether i used the most effective build on these ubers? I don't know, at least I think so, but I also know there are new things for me to learn and explore everyday, apart from this build, there are still yet information to be discover and learn, and that's why I am here.


@INVIS

the First, Thanks reply my Message :-)

i agree with you if in this forum, we can learns each other... D3 so awesome :-P

ok, can you try bet this time with your gears and skill like Fitz:

Killtimes:
Rakanoth and Ghom = 17.567sec
Siegebreaker and Kulle = 35.367 sec
Magdha and skeleking = 50.167 sec

Total killtime = 103.101 sec = 1 min and 43.101 sec

I really appreciate if you want try skill like Fitz with your gears to uber solo in mp 10. Thks before

Regards


I am new to this technique so I am here to learn. There are more than one build to play for monk (which is awesome!) and I have been known for other builds and I have my expertise in the exploding world. My gear set it's just what I could find or purchased which doesn't give me any trouble to play the game what ever i want. And it' not something which I say it's best for this or that, it's more like a personal interest or goal when I build my set. And I do not like to just play with one build too if you have seen me live you would know.

It is great we have informative community and poster like Fitz, I do not think being a streamer make me anything special.

There are always pro and cons of different build depending on what you are fighting, this build comes pretty top in my list of effective DPS but in some cases i will still prefer another build to increase efficiency. But the way I would like to think about it is D3 is a great game that doesn't limit our-self into one build only, it's not like you have to re-train your character in order to play different spec. So the best spec will be the one gives you the most efficiency and also fun at the same time. It always ok to switch to a more fun build but losses efficiency. So because of this technique, it make some fun build possible and that is just great.

If you are wondering my Uber kill time on mp10 solo, i uses different build on different bosses and this was done a month ago with first try only,
Skeleton King & Magdha 1m40s
Ghom & Rakanoth 42s
Siege & Kulle 2m20s

Whether i used the most effective build on these ubers? I don't know, at least I think so, but I also know there are new things for me to learn and explore everyday, apart from this build, there are still yet information to be discover and learn, and that's why I am here.


@INVIS

the First, Thanks reply my Message :-)

i agree with you if in this forum, we can learns each other... D3 so awesome :-P

ok, can you try bet this time with your gears and skill like Fitz:

Killtimes:
Rakanoth and Ghom = 17.567sec
Siegebreaker and Kulle = 35.367 sec
Magdha and skeleking = 50.167 sec

Total killtime = 103.101 sec = 1 min and 43.101 sec

I really appreciate if you want try skill like Fitz with your gears to uber solo in mp 10. Thks before

Regards


Sure, I will try one day, just need to farm the key first, can't remember the last time I farm for keys :)
- Diablo III (Monk)
View profile
@INVIS
Hey there! Always wonderful to read your posts when you drop by our side of the pond!

When you say you are doing VotA, I assume you mean on MP10? I have never known you to be a TR monk so I can't imagine you doing MP7 runs.

Do you have any data on how many elites/hr or averaged DE's/hr you are getting there? I have been 100% unable to make MP10 even CLOSE to MP6-7 on my monk. :(

Also, I am not sure exactly what N1K0 is asking, but you can't really Nirvana on MP10 Ubers because it takes at least 2 targets to activate and once one of the bosses blows up you can no longer combo. This would make the kill speed significantly lower than a more normal cookie-bells build such as:
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/monk#eUaSYk!Xgb!bZYcca

Anyways, cheers INVIS!
-Druin, the happy monk
Fitz, I picked up a CD EF last night to try it out.

It does boost the bell dmg by a lot.

Tested in game and double checked on dps calculator.

Now, I'm going to try to find a nice sword with as/cd/ls/socket. :D

Fun stuff. Thanks.
@INVIS
Hey there! Always wonderful to read your posts when you drop by our side of the pond!

When you say you are doing VotA, I assume you mean on MP10? I have never known you to be a TR monk so I can't imagine you doing MP7 runs.

Do you have any data on how many elites/hr or averaged DE's/hr you are getting there? I have been 100% unable to make MP10 even CLOSE to MP6-7 on my monk. :(

Also, I am not sure exactly what N1K0 is asking, but you can't really Nirvana on MP10 Ubers because it takes at least 2 targets to activate and once one of the bosses blows up you can no longer combo. This would make the kill speed significantly lower than a more normal cookie-bells build such as:
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/monk#eUaSYk!Xgb!bZYcca

Anyways, cheers INVIS!
-Druin, the happy monk


@Druin

I'm learn from your and Fitz guide, that very very powerfull to kill elits... I though with INVIS's Gears and combine skill from you and Fitz...... It will be Super Powerfull Damage :-)

Btw, thanks for you and Fitz, i can learn about monk's Skill from both of you :-)

Druin, I try used SOJ (cold).. Why cold from soj looks not efect with elits? Please let me inow. Thks
- Diablo III (Monk)
View profile
06/19/2013 10:18 AMPosted by N1K0
Druin, I try used SOJ (cold).. Why cold from soj looks not efect with elits? Please let me inow. Thks

The SoJ is adding Cold Damage to your attacks which are then converted to whatever element the attack itself is.

Example:
If you attack with your "basic" attack it will do mostly "physical" damage because your sword and echoing fury are both physical damage weapons. It will also do 5% of its damage in "cold" damage.

However, if you attack with Fist of Thunder, it will do mostly physical + 5% cold THEN it will convert ALL of that damage to lighting damage because Fist of Thunder reads "deals 110% weapon damage as lighting damage" and this effect happens AFTER the SoJ cold damage is applied.

The result is that the type of element on your SoJ doesn't mean much when you are using FoT as your main attack.

Hope that helps!
06/19/2013 10:23 AMPosted by Druin
Druin, I try used SOJ (cold).. Why cold from soj looks not efect with elits? Please let me inow. Thks

The SoJ is adding Cold Damage to your attacks which are then converted to whatever element the attack itself is.

Example:
If you attack with your "basic" attack it will do mostly "physical" damage because your sword and echoing fury are both physical damage weapons. It will also do 5% of its damage in "cold" damage.

However, if you attack with Fist of Thunder, it will do mostly physical + 5% cold THEN it will convert ALL of that damage to lighting damage because Fist of Thunder reads "deals 110% weapon damage as lighting damage" and this effect happens AFTER the SoJ cold damage is applied.

The result is that the type of element on your SoJ doesn't mean much when you are using FoT as your main attack.

Hope that helps!


I really need cold from soj because i used echo, that so grazy when hit elits but they run coz fear from echo lol

Thanks Druin
06/19/2013 10:36 AMPosted by N1K0

The SoJ is adding Cold Damage to your attacks which are then converted to whatever element the attack itself is.

Example:
If you attack with your "basic" attack it will do mostly "physical" damage because your sword and echoing fury are both physical damage weapons. It will also do 5% of its damage in "cold" damage.

However, if you attack with Fist of Thunder, it will do mostly physical + 5% cold THEN it will convert ALL of that damage to lighting damage because Fist of Thunder reads "deals 110% weapon damage as lighting damage" and this effect happens AFTER the SoJ cold damage is applied.

The result is that the type of element on your SoJ doesn't mean much when you are using FoT as your main attack.

Hope that helps!


I really need cold from soj because i used echo, that so grazy when hit elits but they run coz fear from echo lol

Thanks Druin


Haha hey man I have the same type of Immortal glove for my pvp set. :D
@INVIS
Hey there! Always wonderful to read your posts when you drop by our side of the pond!

When you say you are doing VotA, I assume you mean on MP10? I have never known you to be a TR monk so I can't imagine you doing MP7 runs.

Do you have any data on how many elites/hr or averaged DE's/hr you are getting there? I have been 100% unable to make MP10 even CLOSE to MP6-7 on my monk. :(

Also, I am not sure exactly what N1K0 is asking, but you can't really Nirvana on MP10 Ubers because it takes at least 2 targets to activate and once one of the bosses blows up you can no longer combo. This would make the kill speed significantly lower than a more normal cookie-bells build such as:
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/monk#eUaSYk!Xgb!bZYcca

Anyways, cheers INVIS!
-Druin, the happy monk


Hey Druin

I am always around, just wish I have more time to dig deeper into Diablo, been quite busy in real life so the amount of time I can spend here is less and less. But it's still always nice to see the happiest monk saying hi to me, it makes me happy too! :)

I have not done DE/h for any MP below 9 to be honest, not because I don't think it's faster, it just because I enjoy playing at higher MP for the fun, and that is sometimes why I play this game. However I have done DE/h on MP9 and MP10, on MP10, i uses the SP build with exploding palm, on MP9, i uses dashing strike and take out the combination strike. the DE/h data i have collected so far is 39.7 on MP10 and 43.4 on MP9. There are much more works I could do, and I have the excel table already ready to drop down data, now I just need to find more time to do so. At least I have the data to show that MP10 will not give me more DE/h and I am sticking with MP9 for now.
- Diablo III (Monk)
View profile
06/19/2013 11:27 AMPosted by INVIS
I have not done DE/h for any MP below 9 to be honest, not because I don't think it's faster, it just because I enjoy playing at higher MP for the fun, and that is sometimes why I play this game. However I have done DE/h on MP9 and MP10, on MP10, i uses the SP build with exploding palm, on MP9, i uses dashing strike and take out the combination strike. the DE/h data i have collected so far is 39.7 on MP10 and 43.4 on MP9. There are much more works I could do, and I have the excel table already ready to drop down data, now I just need to find more time to do so. At least I have the data to show that MP10 will not give me more DE/h and I am sticking with MP9 for now.

43.4 is pretty darn good!

I am currently working on breaking the 50/hr mark in MP7 but my average is much closer to 45-46 on MP6 so not that far off.

Are you still streaming? I would absolutely love to see what MP9 VotA looks like with your spec! :D
06/19/2013 11:46 AMPosted by Druin
I have not done DE/h for any MP below 9 to be honest, not because I don't think it's faster, it just because I enjoy playing at higher MP for the fun, and that is sometimes why I play this game. However I have done DE/h on MP9 and MP10, on MP10, i uses the SP build with exploding palm, on MP9, i uses dashing strike and take out the combination strike. the DE/h data i have collected so far is 39.7 on MP10 and 43.4 on MP9. There are much more works I could do, and I have the excel table already ready to drop down data, now I just need to find more time to do so. At least I have the data to show that MP10 will not give me more DE/h and I am sticking with MP9 for now.

43.4 is pretty darn good!

I am currently working on breaking the 50/hr mark in MP7 but my average is much closer to 45-46 on MP6 so not that far off.

Are you still streaming? I would absolutely love to see what MP9 VotA looks like with your spec! :D


I will stream whenever I can, will be quite a bit less than before I am afraid.
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