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Only class I have trouble with sometimes are DHs. Ive been using spirit barrage/mantilou and trying to land some zombie sacrifices as my counter to their flashing, while wearing the grin reaper to try to eat some arrows. Anyone know of any better strategies? Cheers.
Advice for WD:
1) Don't get impaled.
2) Don't get fanned.
3) Don't let your pets get stickied and die near you.
4) Do use haunt liberally, even to the scenery.
5) Do use pets, all of them.
6) Do use a shield.
7) If (1-6) fail, SELLLL VOODOOMAN, BUY BABA, WIN PVP!
I have the same issue... I used Kai's absolutely all-knowing-god-like WD, and tried everything there is to try against Lornazondiac's DH, and I still got raped with 0-10.... (shield, pets, haunt, barrage, bats, SoJ, veil, big bad voodoo.. you name them..)
So I say the only way to do this is to get a BABA, and kite the !@#$ out of DHs... XD
But the thing is, Kai's god like Voodooman actually beats BABA... @@
The only class Voodoomen have problem fighting is DH, it's just like how DH have issues fighting BABA
Edited by GGyouLOSE#1689 on 4/22/2013 1:10 AM PDT
Haunt, Spirit Barrage - Well of Souls and if they are lower on EHP I use Vengeful Spirit. I typically just stay in the cemetery so they never can attack me before at least I can see them. If they have a Boar make sure to kill it. Hide against the walls and get them to drain their Discipline by applying constant pressure.
Lorna's DH isn't typical. I'd wager he has over 100B in gear (most in his stash) that he specifically selects for the encounter. He beats me more often than I can beat him but mostly due to gear, he has better PVP gear than Revrac in my opinion!
The problem with WD vs a top end DH is that our primary attacks couldn't hit DH. Take me vs Lorna for example, WD's 2 best primary pvp skills are spirit barrage - well of soul and fire bat - plague bats. But none of the 2 can actually hit Lorna. The problem with spirit barrage is that it has an air traveling time. So Lorna waits for my barrage to fly over, and uses smoke screen right before my barrage lands. So what happens is that my barrage ends up landing on an empty ground and does no damage.. We tested, if he were to stand still, my barrage would kill him in 3-4 hits. But if he were to time smoke screen to dodge my barrage, I would hardly ever hit him. (Same issue with plague bats)
So the only thing I could use to land a hit on him is haunt - lingering spirit. So following this train of thoughts, I tried to build up DPS for a super powerful haunt.. But even at 420k DPS, my haunt doesn't do !@#$ at him.. @@
Kai could push his DPS to 570k, not sure if it will work, but I highly doubt..
PS For WD vs Barb it's a different story.. Hex + Plague bats usually = gg
Sometimes barb saves ignore pain for the last 5% of health, that's no problem, just use horrify before he's about to use ignore pain, or use Zombie wall - pile on to overwhelm it..
The match-up is actually extremely one-sided in favor of the WD. You must be doing something entirely wrong and/or you are completely outgeared.
From your description I'm guessing it's both. First of all 420k+ DPS is neither realistic with good EHP nor needed vs DHs and also won't give you "super powerful Haunt" since it will be heavily attack speed based. Secondly you don't sit there and wait for your barrages to fly over. You just preemptively spam it while stutter-stepping around walls.That way there will be a constant stream of barrages even when you are on the move and the DH is always in danger to get hit by a huge barrage crit in the 0.5s+ downtime of Smoke screen. Plague bats is there to keep DHs at bay and it's perfect for that. You won't kill with it often but just having it in your repertoire will force the DH to play more careful and less aggressive. And then there always is Haunt which is pretty much unavoidable with it's range and auto-aim and on crit will always cost a few Smoke screens, Preparation or pots.
All these skills are easier to aim than DHs skills and have much higher % damage modifiers.
On top of that you have a meatshield of dogs that makes sniping extremely hard, two defensive skills that combined have almost 100% uptime (Spirit walk, Horrify) and high regen with Healing Journey and Blood ritual.
So, how do you lose against a DH with all that?
Wait till you play Lornazoniac with a WD..
Well I guess there is the dmg reduction bug on PTR so my ehp build wasn't working there. Maybe if we geared like a barb we can actually make Lorna ran out of discipline lol
But you have to understand that horrify + healing journey is nothing like ignore pain + sprint.
Also Lorna uses the new Nata set, but guys like Cyon uses Nata leg.. That's gonna be a different story.
And no, high dps works because spirit barrage now shoots faster, to out speed their smoke screen. But to me it seems that they still hit the ground 4/5 times.
WD beats DH only at a beginner/budget level; I'm talking about best gears vs best gears
Edited by GGyouLOSE#1689 on 4/23/2013 12:33 PM PDT
Just have to go against the right WD. I have gone against this Chinese guy who is probably the toughest WD I have gone against. I looked at his profile and his was nothing really. Only had Flawless Square Topaz but he hit like a truck. So I inspected his gear and town. Took screen caps of everything and loaded it into D3UP.
This is his damage range for a Crit Spirit Barrage including his 26% SB bonus and 35% bonus to Elites.
1,151,246 - 2,329,105
Do you have a link to the profile of that Kai you are talking about? High DPS comes at a price and 420k DPS isn't possible without sacrificing a ton of EHP.
Legacy Nats, New Nats, BT it doesn't matter. WD is just way too overpowered for DHs at all levels. With the new changes to Blood ritual and Firebats it's even more one-sided.
I already sent a request to this Lorna guy on PTR but unfortunately most players don't even check PTR anymore because there is 0 dueling activity on there.
If there are any DH out there that want to prove me wrong, I would be happy to duel you. Euronymous#2637 on PTR.
Another WD that managed to beat me was Asmodai (spelling?). He out-geared me by a little but the key problem I had was his massive EHP. I would always run out of discipline too early mitigating his Haunts. Full Blackthorne's armor and high armor/all resists make players really hard to kill but unfortunately it seriously gimps a DH's discipline using that gear (DH lose important set bonuses from using Litany and/or Blackthorne's).
The problem is effective damage vs effective health: while the DH does win by the numbers using smokescreen the issue is landing the damage. A DH must land impales on the WD while they move around with many pets and obstructions in the way; whereas a WD can just aim haunt in the general direction with little effort. If impale was auto-WD-seeking and could go around obstacles, this wouldn't be a contest lol. In a contest of standing stationary in the open with no pets, the DH should win (or at least draw if the WD uses bats and haunt). But of course, dueling is not that simple and the WD tends to have a better time against DH.
This is not to say the match-up is impossible but there needs to be luck on the DH's side in happening to connect with several impales between many pets and avoid critical haunts against top WD like Blud, Euro, Iam (EU) or Kai, Chucknorris, Asmodai (US).
Also let me post my opinion on the current match ups:
(+2) Barb: slight advantage to DH (+1), even with Monk (+0), slight disadvantage with WD (-1), slight advantage to Wizard (+1)
(+2) DH: slight disadvantage to Barb (-1), advantage to Monk (+2), slight disadvantage to WD (-1), advantage to Wizard (+2)
(+1) Monk: even with Barb (+0), disadvantage to DH (-2), slight advantage to WD (+1), advantage to Wizard (+2)
(+3) WD: slight advantage to Barb (+1), slight advantage to DH (+1), slight disadvantage to Monk (-1), advantage to Wizard (+2)
(-7) Wizard: slight disadvantage to Barb (-1), disadvantage to DH (-2), disadvantage to Monk (-2), disadvantage to WD (-2)
This is my opinion of course but it is based on what I see top players doing to each other in general (there are of course outlier players who can beat their tough match-ups). Thus as a DH, I fear Barbs and WDs the most (Barbs more for stalemate purposes).
Edited by Iria#1342 on 4/24/2013 1:44 PM PDT
Personally I'm of the view that if zombie dogs didn't exist it wouldn't be a contest (DH win), they're basically Wizards with a few extra tricks without them and go down really quickly without the dogs to soak damage up. Maybe someone will come along and show me otherwise, but I think the dogs are one of their biggest assets against DH.
You're all very long winded when a simple explanation is here...
DH's SS is better than Spirit Walk.
See, SS can be used 3-4 times at any time which gives the DH the chance to counter the WD HARD.
WD's SW can only be used once because of the 15sec cd. So, DH misses when WD in SW mode, but just out escapes him with multiple SS's whenever and 1 shots you with impale.
Only SW & SV together can compete and even then it's not certain...
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