Diablo® III

+2mil sustained crit MoR build 3.8mil w/blind

03/22/2013 12:15 PMPosted by Druin
I understand now, however I must say EL is OP with this build, I crit 8 times in every direction for 2mil solid and with the Wall of light rune I crit for 400k-600k per strike much much worse, blinding light is nice if you wanna stun stuff but the insane dps in all directions critting on everything around you for 2mil well... lets just say you dont need to stun a corpse. I have epic gameplay with MoR against all odds and WOL EL combo that I have tested between overawe, dodge which I take back what I said earlier its not really for this build, I have decided after tooling around that MoR AAO w/ WOL EL Skorn Blackthorns setup with high crit is OP.

First, I am really glad that you are enjoying the game. That is the best thing you can possibly be doing and I support it 100%.

If you enjoy the MoR:AaO + WoL:EL setup, more power to you!

However, I simply can't let mathematical inaccuracy go unattended.
WoL:WoL does 1202% weapon damage divided up 3x.
WoL:EL does 914% weapon damage 1x.

Let's assume you crit for 2m on average with WoL:EL.
This means your weapon damage is: 2,000,000 / 914 = 2188

So how much damage would WoL:WoL do per crit on average?
1202/3 = 400.67 * 2188 = 876,732

Your stated numbers of 400-600k are mathematically inaccurate.

The most reasonable explanation would be confirmation bias. You want EL to be better AND you are more likely to notice crits in the 2m+range because they look awesome. This causes you to notice all the 2m+ crits on EL while ignoring the variance below that number while simultaneously over-noticing the lower-bound crits for your WoL:WoL because it supports your desired conclusion.

This is an EXTREMELY common practice and something I find myself falling prey to every single day.

As for the other functions of EL, I personally find the radius of WoL to be big enough for my tastes. That doesn't mean it is right for you and I 100% understand that.


I am extremely aware that the math doesnt add up, I just amde a video so you can understand better how EL hits, I just made several clips and compared WoL WoL to WoL EL and the difference is 1.5mil in crit damage, I know it doesnt make sense but watch this video if you don't believe me:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xeW_jmX8f2k
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- Diablo III (Monk)
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I am extremely aware that the math doesnt add up, I just amde a video so you can understand better how EL hits, I just made several clips and compared WoL WoL to WoL EL and the difference is 1.5mil in crit damage, I know it doesnt make sense but watch this video if you don't believe me:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xeW_jmX8f2k

Can you explain what you are trying to show with that video?

I understand that WoL:EL does a lot of damage, it does not to more damage than WoL:WoL though.
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I am extremely aware that the math doesnt add up, I just amde a video so you can understand better how EL hits, I just made several clips and compared WoL WoL to WoL EL and the difference is 1.5mil in crit damage, I know it doesnt make sense but watch this video if you don't believe me:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xeW_jmX8f2k

Can you explain what you are trying to show with that video?

I understand that WoL:EL does a lot of damage, it does not to more damage than WoL:WoL though.

the other video shows WoL crits with same exact gear and it hits for 1.5mil less than EL that is what I am showing you, that and the AOE dps crits 2mil on everything around you when WoL is a concentrated blast that does SIGNIFICANTLY less damage.
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i don't know why this is i am just letting you all know so you can take advantage of it too, watch both those videos and you will see. maybe its just something i stumbled upon by accident and I wanna share.
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03/22/2013 12:21 PMPosted by PaulNg
Ok Mrpags, we get it now. You're excited about a variant of the WoL build, and that's where your high crit damage numbers are coming from. Your topic is kinda misleading, your topic should give credit to WoL instead of MoR because that is the main source of your crit damage numbers. WoL is solid in many different builds simply because Blizzard buffed it. I'm glad you found a build that you like.


I call it a MoR build beacause that is the only skill that this build truly works with, I know the damage comes from WOL:EL but its the build and combination of all these things that makes this build even work.

this build can only work with MoR:AAO, FoT:TC, WoL:EL, DR:Foresight, serenity:ascension (damage sustained buff?), breath of heaven blazing wrath; 2h Skorn or = concentrated Vitality and stacked resistances, 35+ crit chance, and 450+ chd.

enjoy! it works super swell!
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Interesting to see a MOR build, I'll have to try this out later.
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Despite how admittedly unaware this guy is about how the skills work this is amusing in that it reminds me of the 1.0.7 patch and how the day after a wizard was commenting on how it seemed he could get by with half the APoC gear he used have, and encouraging others to experiment with it.

In the end after 5-7 pages there were a lot of math crafters trying to prove that his experiences don't make mathematical sense and a few other more casual people testing it and remarking they felt it too. The mathematicians of course stuck to their guns.

Some time later it came to light that 1.0.7 introduced the APoC bug and everything made perfect sense, the guy was right after all but the long timers wouldn't hear of it because it didn't make sense based the tool tip numbers.

The odds of this being a similar situation are probably 1:1,000,000 but I thought it was funny because other than the end outcome, the thread reads very similar.
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- Diablo III (Monk)
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Despite how admittedly unaware this guy is about how the skills work this is amusing in that it reminds me of the 1.0.7 patch and how the day after a wizard was commenting on how it seemed he could get by with half the APoC gear he used have, and encouraging others to experiment with it.

In the end after 5-7 pages there were a lot of math crafters trying to prove that his experiences don't make mathematical sense and a few other more casual people testing it and remarking they felt it too. The mathematicians of course stuck to their guns.

Some time later it came to light that 1.0.7 introduced the APoC bug and everything made perfect sense, the guy was right after all but the long timers wouldn't hear of it because it didn't make sense based the tool tip numbers.

The odds of this being a similar situation are probably 1:1,000,000 but I thought it was funny because other than the end outcome, the thread reads very similar.

I wish I could say that has never happened to me. But it has. More than once.

I argue for math because, usually, it is correct. I also empirically test all my claims to make sure I am not being an arrogant !@# ... which sometimes it turns out I am! :D

I will certainly be testing this as well ... but for now, I will go with what is most likely and I find that to be the case of confirmation bias!

Good point though!
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I myself understand that the math doesn't make sense, thats why I posted this, I did the math myself and decided that either explosive light's 914% "burst damage" hits / or is different than that 1200dmg inc from WoL, or there is a bug of sorts. What I can't figure out is why people look at my crits in my video see the insane dps and just says it doesnt add up. well i concur, so take advantage while you can cuz it may get nerfed.

Here is a possible factor, Wall of light is HOLY DAMAGE. Inna's belt adds 7% holy damage, could there be other things we may have overlooked other than math? maybe we interpreted the wording of the runes and how they work wrong.
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Despite how admittedly unaware this guy is about how the skills work this is amusing in that it reminds me of the 1.0.7 patch and how the day after a wizard was commenting on how it seemed he could get by with half the APoC gear he used have, and encouraging others to experiment with it.

In the end after 5-7 pages there were a lot of math crafters trying to prove that his experiences don't make mathematical sense and a few other more casual people testing it and remarking they felt it too. The mathematicians of course stuck to their guns.

Some time later it came to light that 1.0.7 introduced the APoC bug and everything made perfect sense, the guy was right after all but the long timers wouldn't hear of it because it didn't make sense based the tool tip numbers.

The odds of this being a similar situation are probably 1:1,000,000 but I thought it was funny because other than the end outcome, the thread reads very similar.

I wish I could say that has never happened to me. But it has. More than once.

I argue for math because, usually, it is correct. I also empirically test all my claims to make sure I am not being an arrogant !@# ... which sometimes it turns out I am! :D

I will certainly be testing this as well ... but for now, I will go with what is most likely and I find that to be the case of confirmation bias!

Good point though!


did you even watch the videos? how can it be biased if i am basing my numbers on facts which i clearly display in the videos?
Edited by mrpags#1151 on 3/22/2013 2:34 PM PDT
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i may not know the math behind the skills but when i do clinical testing and show my results it is a gift for all of you my success to try, if this build can not benefit you then sorry but dont say its biased until you try it yourself. i discovered this by trial and error while creating my lvl 50 hc monk which i was experimenting with MoR sustainability and different survivability builds, i discovered this by mistake and thought you would all appreciate it, i dont care if you all think that the math doesnt add up, its your loss if you make a decision without even trying, "only a fool rejects knowledge" - bible
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and here is the video proof of WoL:WoL crappy crits and small aoe damage with even smaller effective area, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MamH7_FFHM4

compared to WoL:EL
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if you guys cant see in the videos how clearly OP EL is with what I have shown you then I am afraid that I just can't help you lol
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- Diablo III (Monk)
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I do not understand why you say it "doesn't add up" when it seems to very much add up.

The numbers you see when you use WoL:WoL are for ~400% weapon damage hits. The numbers you see when you use WoL:EL are for 914% weapon damage hits.

Of course EL is going to seem like more damage because it is packaged into a single hit.

Your claim is that MoR is increasing WoL:EL's damage ABOVE the already crazy high number it has. I think this claim is false mostly due to the unlikelihood of such an interaction being in the game.

I do not think it is impossible that you are correct, but I do think you would need to show me conclusive evidence to really being me around.

Thankfully, I am well practiced in testing things like this and I can quickly throw on a min=max wep/ammy setup, hit something with WoL:WoL, WoL:EL and then WoL:WoL+MoR and WoL:EL+MoR and see if they are true to their tooltips or not!

Fear not, testing will be done!

This is why I do not think you understand or are even attempting to read the things I am writing.

IF WoL is critting for 800k ... 800k * 3 = 2.4m > 2m crits from EL.
Therefore: WoL is more damage.

Conclusion: WoL is more damage than EL.
Edited by Druin#1518 on 3/22/2013 2:44 PM PDT
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That is awesome but i think there is a misunderstanding, the only reason I use MoR is because of the massive spirit regen it gives me and it helps sustain my health so I don't die, if it wasn't for MoR I wouldnt be able to spam WoL:EL, just to be clear MoR does state that: reflect 40% damage sustained is done as holy, explain this to me please? So if I have 873 res all and i get hit for 100khp and i sustain all 100khp does it not reflect 40% of a 100k to the attacking mob?

NOTE: MoR :AAO is used in high MP to generate spirit from sustaining attacks, if you kill everything around you in 1hit ur spirit cant regen fast, so this only works on high mp.
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i know you are doing math on paper and thats fine im not saying your paper math is wrong but go do a trial yourself and you will see that EL hits way more targets and crits much higher. i read everything you said and you must not be watching the videos because if you just look with your eyes you can see plain as day that EL is critting for much more than WOL
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Here is the WOL WOL crappy crits vid with same exact gear and skills http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MamH7_FFHM4&feature=youtu.be

here is the WOL EL vid showing everything the same except EL instead of WOL
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=xeW_jmX8f2k

unless you are completely blind you can see my findings are true.
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- Diablo III (Monk)
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03/22/2013 02:53 PMPosted by mrpags
i know you are doing math on paper and thats fine im not saying your paper math is wrong but go do a trial yourself and you will see that EL hits way more targets and crits much higher. i read everything you said and you must not be watching the videos because if you just look with your eyes you can see plain as day that EL is critting for much more than WOL

I do not understand how I can't manage to explain this to you!!

WoL hits three times for a TOTAL of 1200% damage.
This means that each INDIVIDUAL number you see is 1/3rd of the total 1200%.
1/3 * 1200 = 400%.

400% is MUCH LESS than 914% and so the SINGLE crit numbers you see from WoL:WoL will always be lower than the single crit numbers you see from WoL:EL ... the thing is, for every 1 crit from WoL:EL, there are 3 from WoL:WoL.

Your videos (which I most certainly have watched) show you clocking in at ~750k crits for WoL:WoL and ~1.8 mil crits for EL.

This means WoL is doing a TOTAL damage per cast of ~750k * 3 = 2.25 mil

2.25 mil > 1.8 mil.

Please please please please tell me you get what I am saying?
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i understand perfect dude and you still dont get it, in 1 click/hit with Wol Wol i do 750kish in a concentrated area, with one click/hit with EL i get 1.8mil in a full circle to everything around me

the 914% burst damage is different than 1200 weapon damage and also consider holy damage increased too.
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