Diablo® III

Expansion Pack

Wonder if Diablo 3 will blow up after the expansion pack. It is a bunch of new software and usually expansion packs are better than the original game. D3 has a long way to go but I think the expansion pack with new characters may work out well.
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03/24/2013 03:57 PMPosted by OneShot
Wonder if Diablo 3 will blow up after the expansion pack. It is a bunch of new software and usually expansion packs are better than the original game. D3 has a long way to go but I think the expansion pack with new characters may work out well.


I would be greatly surprised if they changed the fundamental foundation of this game to be different in the expansion pack. A few new characters will NOT change it.

It would have to be a total overhaul. I am all for it, but it is unlikely to happen.

I'm still not buying it unless they really humble Diablo 2 era fans.
Edited by scorch#1821 on 3/24/2013 4:30 PM PDT
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03/24/2013 03:57 PMPosted by OneShot
Wonder if Diablo 3 will blow up after the expansion pack. It is a bunch of new software and usually expansion packs are better than the original game. D3 has a long way to go but I think the expansion pack with new characters may work out well.


Prediction: No.

If it follows the same style of play, little RPG, lots of action, itemization flaws, etc etc

It may be cool for like a month, but then it will be the same as before.
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If there's an auction house I'm not buying it
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The expansion will be a success trust me. The devs. made D3 not really knowing what was expected of the consumer. Now that there is feedback and reccomendations everywhere, as a business Blizzard will meet the demands that the consumer wants.
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It's funny that people expect new characters with the xpac.
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Waitng.

Its far off whats the point of speculation ? Please tell.
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They should make new boss encounters similar to ubers except harder and more interesting. I hate to say it but make them more strategic like WoW where a group and certain classes with their class unique skills are required. Make the new special levels with a special quest line to unlock, etc. I'm not sure about new legendaries. That would be another balancing act and half right there.
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lets all just go back and play d2, and forget d3 ever existed LOL
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03/24/2013 05:37 PMPosted by ClifF
lets all just go back and play d2, and forget d3 ever existed LOL


nado druids, hdins, smiters, bliz sorcs, cs zons, necros ww barbs heh, the list goes on and on for your pick of pvp.
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nado druids, hdins, smiters, bliz sorcs, cs zons, necros ww barbs heh, the list goes on and on for your pick of pvp.

#11
9 minutes ago
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dont get me wrong, i am a huge fan of d3
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I think the reasons for D3's failures are pretty evident when you look at the progression of the game since launch. Look at how frequently they did shout-outs to the general masses, asking what people wanted, and implemented it. Blizzard's core development team lacked vision from the start, and was so confused about how to proceed they asked their audience like this was some kind of improv comedy routine.

Game designers should be able to tell users what they want, and they should have a long-term development roadmap for where the game should roughly be a year from now, or two years from now. Taking some feedback from the community is one thing, and yes they should look at game stats post-launch as they come in from the actual player base, but to throw us the torch as openly as they did, and dramatically change key gameplay parameters from one patch to the next (the famous "we doubled it" catchphrase) just speaks to the ill-preparedness and lack of talent present in their core design team.

So for the expansion, this may be the first non-MMO Blizzard game that I don't buy sight-unseen. In all other cases the material cost of a Blizzard game has always seemed trivial, as I've played games like Starcraft for so many countless hours that buying the next one was as clear a choice to me as breathing. Even though action RPGs aren't my biggest genre, the fact that this was a Blizzard game was enough, but D3 is a very different Blizzard than D2 or SC2. Based on the original game's quality, I will wait on the reviews and for the dust to settle before picking up any D3 expansion, and this is the only time in over 10 years where I can say that about any Blizzard game.
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03/24/2013 04:29 PMPosted by scorch
Wonder if Diablo 3 will blow up after the expansion pack. It is a bunch of new software and usually expansion packs are better than the original game. D3 has a long way to go but I think the expansion pack with new characters may work out well.


I would be greatly surprised if they changed the fundamental foundation of this game to be different in the expansion pack. A few new characters will NOT change it.

It would have to be a total overhaul. I am all for it, but it is unlikely to happen.

I'm still not buying it unless they really humble Diablo 2 era fans.


Yup agree
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03/24/2013 04:43 PMPosted by IllIllllIllI
It's funny that people expect new characters with the xpac.


Why?
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03/24/2013 06:15 PMPosted by Quadratic
So for the expansion, this may be the first non-MMO Blizzard game that I don't buy sight-unseen.

Kind of took the words right out of my mouth. While none of us really know if they'll do an actual overhaul of the core gaming systems (I myself hope they would make a bold move like this but also know realistically that this amounts to basically an entirely new game; too much of a pill to swallow for an expansion that is basically budgeted to build on top of the current foundation).

Right now (based on this dev teams "performance" over the past 10 months), I just don't see myself as a customer for the expansion. Personally, I've been playing less and less with each subsequent patch with most of my recent play time on hardcore (even that has slowed down because I've been playing mostly SC2 - that team is a striking difference not only in terms of interaction with the community, but also in their design philosophy - it shows in the client for example as well as the game play). Each patch since 1.0.4, I've kicked the tires a bit, but it eventually ends up reminding me of how unrewarding this game can feel at times. An expansion that doesn't address the core underlying issues which affect how rewarding the loot actually feels, basically amounts to just doing the same thing over again (if talking about new character classes). Sure, there is the continuation of the story line (new content) but that will be all over YouTube in a day.

The following is what I posted here back in October in someones thread which explains in further detail, why I still don't see myself purchasing the expansions (unless of course, drastic changes are actually made). Note, I do realize that they've been making changes since then to try and improve the game; much of that has generally been bandaid fixes though.

Warning, the following is long and not meant for those who have short attention spans. tl;dr version is wall of text crits you for 100% opinion....

I wouldn't generalize all of the negative feedback as "everyone hating this game". Sure, some of the negativity ends up going way over the top, but if you pick out key phrases, you'll see words like unrewarding, uninspiring, boring, poor itemization, linear playthrough, always online, etc. In other words, there are common themes to why a portion of the player base feels alienated. Some folks prefer to rage about it while others want to provide more constructive feedback in hopes of seeing the underlying issues addressed.

I do realize that games. no matter the genre, will always have different meanings to different people. Some play games for the pure entertainment and fun value, some play for the challenges, others play for competition and ego, others play to be the absolute best and/or to always have the best items. And yes, none of these are mutually exclusive as there will always be players who are after several of these. Back in May-July, I was still having a lot of fun since after completing Inferno, I started leveling alts along with playing hardcore. Now that I have several level 60's though (two which I paragon leveled a bit while using some of the "better" drops to slowly re-gear my "yet to be Inferno played" barbarian), it's turned into a mostly unrewarding time sink.

To put it more simply, one of the main challenges that game developers have to do is to understand all of this in order to be able to satisfy a broad demographic. At the same time, they have to balance the challenges with the rewards. The majority of loot inspired games basically relate back to B.F. Skinner's Skinner Box experiment. In games like this though, the quality of the reward is relative since that is dependent on ones baseline gear. What may be a high quality to one may not be for someone who already has decent items. Yes, there are some who actually don't care about the loot and have fun just slaying demons so the following doesn't necessarily apply to those folks.

For D3, Normal to Hell difficulty isn't where the itemization issue becomes problematic. At lower levels, the rolls on items do tend to make sense including those on class specific items. This is why it is relatively fun leveling through Normal to Hell (albeit having to go through the story line questing does become old after awhile). What that tells me is that Blizzard could use that same functionality to roll stats which makes more sense on higher level items, but chooses not to do so (I understand that since grinding for loot is one of the aspects when you are working your way through and/or once you've cleared all of Inferno).

However, relegating rolls completely to the mercy of RNG for Inferno level items leaves us with the whole "unrewarding" aspect when it comes to the loot which does drop. It's not about the quantity that drops, but about finding the occasional quality reward which offers a positive reinforcement which keeps players wanting to play. If you are on the unlucky side of RNG, ultimately the desire to continue playing goes down because you'll feel like you are doing these repetitive runs for "nothing" (sure, you now at least get experience, gold/magic find bonuses from Paragon levels but that doesn't really count towards giving players their dopamine fix).

Since the items which do tend to drop is normally not even worthwhile to use on an alternate character (meaning the chances are also relatively low that someone else out there would want it) and/or is unsellable on the AH, it ends up as vendor trash/salvage. Thus the reality is that many players feel like they have to farm for gold because they are unable to come across drops which would be useful either for an alt or useful to someone else if they put it up on the AH. I'm also not advocating for the highest quality rares and legendaries to be raining everywhere like a loot pinata as that is equally and more so boring/unrewarding (might as well put in a cheat mode console like TL2). The key is finding a proper balance.

The AH itself can be its own worst enemy because some players felt driven away by it (sticker shock if they did not do more refined searches) and therefore no longer try to use it as a tool. Which is unfortunate because I've tried to put up some of the "better" stuff for not much over vendor price only to have no takers. I see profiles out there where some could have used those items which I ended up vendoring. With both rares and legendaries now dropping at a higher rate, all this means for more players is filling up their inventory even quicker while still finding the majority of it is as vendor trash/salvage material; in otherwords, generally unrewarding.

Anyway, this is why I've become even more cynical whenever the development blog goes on about increased rewards. The philosophy of the Diablo III decision makers have tended towards one that does not fully understand what makes games like this fun and rewarding to continually grind the same content over and over again. They want things like the PvE game play to be overall balanced and the build diversity of each character class to also be balanced. They buff and then overcompensate with nerfs elsewhere. They offer challenges and increased difficulties but the rewards themselves tend to end up being extremely lackluster. Inferno previously had some pretty obvious defined gear checks including enrage timers on elite packs. That shows the kind of design philosophy the decision makers have in place as to what constitutes a challenge- by introducing MMORPG mechanics into an ARPG where the objectives are simple; slay demons, collect loot, use/trade loot to progress. For every step forwards, it is offset by a few steps backwards. Players often times say they feel powerful at the beginning of the game but feel weak once they hit the later difficulties which is counter to the notion that there should be a general feeling of progression as your game time increases.

During the start of the PTR, the Hellfire Ring bug (unbeknownst at the time) made many players excited because it was the exact kind of reward they've been looking for to keep themselves busy. While I understand the bug made it way too overpowered, the decision makers instead of capitalizing on this, decided to over nerf the ring as opposed to finding a sweet spot where players would still feel compelled to continually grind for the ring. This further cemented in my mind that this development team does not fully grok the rewards aspect of the grindfest and are still taking an MMORPG mindset when it comes to balancing the PvE aspects of an ARPG.

Generally speaking, Diablo III is great when it comes to its graphics and fluid combat mechanics. It falls short on the larger execution though when it comes to the game world (not very randomized), linear quest based story line which gets in the way, unbalanced rewards in relation to the challenge, difficulty, and time sink involved, lack of useful in-game gold sinks which goes towards progression, etc. And if you read peoples postings, there are numerous other reasons including comparing D2 (more specifically, the LoD expansion) and D3. Sure, some things which may have been cut out from D3 may end up returning in an expansion but as it stands, Blizzard is burning through the goodwill legacy of the Diablo franchise with some of its customer base. Back in July, there were numerous threads asking if you'd purchase an expansion. My own response at the time was that either way, I could not say at the time since it would really depend on how Blizzard addressed many of the games shortcomings. As it stands now, I've been playing less and less since 1.0.4 and even though 1.0.5 offered a host of positive changes, bottomline, it still feels unrewarding. With the current design philosophy of those in charge of the franchise, I just can't see myself as a prospective customer for any Diablo III expansion at this juncture.

And this is why many are trying to provide feedback (some do it better than others) because there are still those of us who truely want to see them make some fundamental changes to the quality of rolls on Inferno level items and to scale the rewards with the difficulty and challenges to where the whole fun aspect of the game will return on its own.
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I'd expect it to be about as good as the original. Yea, of course they're going to add some new stuff or else it wouldn't be an expansion, but it probably won't be much of a game changer. However, I do think the expansion will be more well received than the original.

Most of the negative backlash for D3 was from three major things: always online, RMAH and a radical departure from the D2 model. Enough time has passed that mostly everyone has pretty much accepted these things or moved on, so when the expansion comes out, these won't be seen as negatives. They'll just be accepted as part of D3 and the expansion will be judged solely on what it brings to the table.
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I'm curious if Imperius becomes corrupted by his injuries from Diablo, eventually he turns his legion against humans. Considering that it was Tyrael's vote that saved us, it would be neat if the xpac expanded on those actions/votes and if the heros would face against the other ArchAngels.
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03/24/2013 04:43 PMPosted by IllIllllIllI
It's funny that people expect new characters with the xpac.


It's the one thing we all know will be in the xpack 100%
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