Diablo® III

Why can't we "build" our characters?! 2.0

The last thread closed with 490 posts and over 3k views so I hope Blizz sees this must be important.

Thanks to Nevermore.

Purpose of this thread is to continue the discussion of customizing builds through skill and stat points.

Here are some of the points the last thread had:

  • D2 system had flaws, but the only merit in D3 system is not making a mistake
  • Many people flocked to cookie cutter builds in D2, but they can still do the same now
  • People did try their own builds and had fun with that.
  • Freedom to make a mistake adds value to the gameplay experience, at least replay value.
  • Character development also increases game longevity
  • A more creative approach to the attributes would allow more diverse builds and avoid the pit-fall of min/maxing (similar to TL2).
  • The only difference between characters in the same class in D3 is gear.
  • Altering the DPS focus mechanics of the game could help avoid main stat dumping.
  • Respec seems to be one more option as a viable gold sink

    A quote by dohhh2008 that explains something about what this game is lacking for me at least:

    Do you know how's the feel that you don't have any option except only gears while you leveling?


    Obviously D2 wasn't perfect but it has been quite some time since it's release. D3 has had a long development period. Don't you think there could have been a creative way to meet all fans half-way?

    Original thread:
    http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/8196654243
    Reply Quote
    can't build your char in d3?

    sry to disagree but i had plenty of fun building via gearing my characters to progressively do mp10.

    03/26/2013 01:17 AMPosted by scorch
    Freedom to make a mistake adds value to the gameplay experience, at least replay value.


    they had tokens in d2.
    Reply Quote
    can't build your char in d3?

    sry to disagree but i had plenty of fun building via gearing my characters to progressively do mp10.

    Freedom to make a mistake adds value to the gameplay experience, at least replay value.


    they had tokens in d2.


    I don't get what your trying to say. You can still have 2 different builds of the same class. A token can still be useful to both or during experimenting.

    Clarification: I'm not advocating super-permanent mistakes. There needs to be a compromise for those who didn't enjoy re-rolling for whatever reason and I think the tokens were one good method.
    Edited by scorch#1821 on 3/26/2013 1:30 AM PDT
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    Posts: 3,155
    Character templating, is not character building.
    There is no sense of progression in D3.
    Take the top player of D3, say Alkaizer for example, make another barb to 60, transfer all that gear to his new barb. Oh look. Exact same power subtract, 300 or 400 or so main stat and 200 from vit from para levels -100, next to 0 deviation and would mean 1-60 is absolutely worthless, and the same set stats from para levels 0-100.
    Edited by KradisZ#1651 on 3/26/2013 1:35 AM PDT
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    Posts: 25,352
    can't build your char in d3?

    sry to disagree but i had plenty of fun building via gearing my characters to progressively do mp10.

    Freedom to make a mistake adds value to the gameplay experience, at least replay value.


    they had tokens in d2.


    Token of Absolutions were available in Patch 1.13.
    Reply Quote
    Character templating, is not character building.
    There is no sense of progression in D3.
    Take the top player of D3, say Alkaizer for example, make another barb to 60, transfer all that gear to his new barb. Oh look. Exact same power subtract, 300 or 400 or so main stat and 200 from vit from para levels -100, next to 0 deviation and would mean 1-60 is absolutely worthless, and the same set stats from para levels 0-100.


    so fatally flawed? you mean i can't do this on diablo 2?.

    funny.


    Not that you can't do it on Diablo 2 but that you can do MORE as a player. The experience of getting there requires more playing and clicking, and for many of us, more fun. The dps check from items isn't as big a deal in D2. Look at the DPS mechanics and main stat seeking on items in this game.
    Edited by scorch#1821 on 3/26/2013 1:48 AM PDT
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    Posts: 156
    i think devs knowing this. devs already said they has the plan that restructure paragon level system. but this is story of very distant future.
    Reply Quote
    Something I posted at the tail end of the last thread: (my two cents on the matter)

    I think a flexible skill system like we have in D3 would work much better if there were an opportunity cost to acquiring skills and runes - not to stop people from using multiple builds, but to make people choose the order in which they are learned, the idea being that you could make a well rounded character, but it would take a fair bit of effort to do so. Gear that was designed to be less general purpose than what we have now would of course go hand in hand with such a system, so that putting a build together would require you to work on both your character and your gear.

    I suspect something like that could be just as good or better than permanent skill choices; the downside to permanent skill choices as in D2 is that you had to plan a character's path from Day 1, which is a very static way of doing things.

    You could build a system to do this pretty easily by giving ranks to skills and runes, and having all beyond the first drop as tradable loot from mobs like items do, with higher ranked runes being more rare. Then have the Mystic teach them to you - for a price, of course. One that goes up based on both the rank of the skill or rune you're learning, and the number of skills and runes you've already enabled. So it gets harder and harder to collect them all.

    If you have 9 ranks for skills and runes, you give the player 30 points each to spend on them at any given time, 15 for passives, so that if you wanted to put a character together just like what we have now you'd use rank 5 for everything, but you'd be able to emphasize one ability at the expense of another if you'd like, assuming you have the higher ranked skills / runes to do so.

    This would allow all sorts of tweaking, and in addition it would open the door to using fewer than six skills if you wanted, with very high ranked skills and runes, or more than six skills, using weaker ranks because they'd be more spread out. It would also open the door to using more than one rune on a skill, so long as using lower ranks for them is acceptable to you. Not sure how well that last idea would work as some runes are clearly incompatible with others, arcane and comet meteors for example.

    You'd even have the basis for a runeword system, like D2 but with ranks. In putting together a runeword, you could use the same system of having more ranks available than points to spend per socket, so you'd have to pick what qualities of the runeword you want to emphasize or de-emphasize, or if you wanted a balanced runeword, like the all rank 5 example above.

    Those ideas might sound like a huge departure from what we have now but it really isn't a very different system, it wouldn't require a complete overhaul of how the game works. And for people who like what we have now, you could easily have an option that just sets everything to medium, and you'd hardly be aware that anything has changed.
    Reply Quote
    Why can't Rosie O'Donnell run the marathon?! 2.0
    Reply Quote
    Character customization is fun. People want more ways to feel different from their neighbor


    ~Travis Day
    Edited by Chillaxin#1429 on 3/26/2013 2:10 AM PDT
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