Diablo® III

Ultimate Skorn vs DW Challenge Gentlemen?

I have very much enjoyed these forums and reading through guides and posts by guys such as Uberjager, Wayneold, Phatphoeater, Nived, Death and Dakkon, I have learned a lot about the mechanics and gameplay of this game. Still so much to learn though and hence this post.

Recently I read and really enjoyed Wayneold's thread where he was challenged to produce a set capable of completing the mp10 Ubers with a limited budget. And so I thought that, if it was agreeable to some of our esteemed colleagues here, that we could set up another challenge.

Now my thoughts are in their infancy and certainly need refinement, which I would appreciate help on, but I was thinking:

Challenge
Kill the MP10 Ubers in a short a time as possible +/- the leadup 5nv stack on a set budget.

Gear
I put of a sum of gold. Not sure how much, Wayneold couldn't do it on 300M budget so something significantly more than this. Gear is to be bought with this sum of money. Not sure whether to limit all the gear to this sum of money, or to decrease the sum and allow the use of one external piece of gear, or to limit it to the gear and provide an equivalent Skorn/EF + the gear. Open to suggestions.

Teams
Two teams, one for Skorn and one for DW. I was hoping to enclude one person who is well known for gearing on this forum and two fighters :). I am hoping this will be embraced by our pre-eminent barbarians here but I know everyone's time is limited and some may not be even at all interested and so certainly I wouln't want to pressure anyone... however I was thinking.

Skorn
Dakkon, Death + 1 Other

DW
Wayneold, Phatphoeater and Nived

or otherwise ask Nived if he would be interested in joining the Skorn team and ask for another member for the DW team.

Certainly there would be discussions between team members that would be private, however I would ask that much of the discussion about the build, gearing and skills choices be discussed on the forum. I think we could all learn a lot from seeing the logic that goes behind their decisions.

The Winner
The shortest time, from the time the first portal is opened till the last Uber is dead, from 2 of the 3 team members. Winning team can donate their gear to whomever they see most fit/needy. Losing team return their sum of gold.

What do you guys think? :)
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Well....I must say, I am interested. I have about 500 mill in game gold left, and absolutely 0 gear except for the 2 sexy Spectrum's in my profile. Also, keep in mind that my 300 million gold gear challenge was done a few months ago when items had higher value than they do now....inflation has his the Diablo economy hard....although I did NOT buy any gems for that challenge and would have to this time around.

I would be willing to make a very brief comeback to attempt a challenge such as this one, and then donate the gear set I assemble back into the community.....plus it would give me a chance to redeem myself for my 300 mill gold failure.

Keep me updated.....
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Why not back down to MP8 or even lower? The budget needed for MP10 is so large that even higher-end players (like Wayneold in the past) would be reluctant to just throw the needed gold at it on a whim. Reducing the entry cost would give you a lot more interested people and more competition.

If everyone works under the same constraints, anything can be turned into a tough competition. MP10 itself is a joke on an unlimited budget, but limit it enough and even MP7 could be borderline impossible.
Edited by silverfire#1855 on 3/26/2013 6:09 PM PDT
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@ Wayneold

Thanks mate, that would be fantastic. To have you on board would be great. I wouldn't ask you to donate any gold though, your time and skills would be more than I could ask. I would ask though for your thoughts on defining the specifics of the challenge. My initial thoughts are as above but some definite guidelines I think would be necessary. Also, any help in enlisting the above mentioned barbarians or others you think suitable would be appreciated. It would be nice to see people of your and their calibre involved.

@ Silverfire

Yes, I agree that it would have to be a realistic budget. I think however that, with the calibre of talent I am hoping to get involved, anything less than MP10 would be too easy. As Wayne mentioned, his challenge was pre 1.07 nerfs and the changing costs in the GAH. Also though, we would want to make it an adequate sum so that they have some flexibility. The measure of this challenge is how well it is done, not whether it is possible on a very limited challenge.

I have pretty well finished gearing my barb I think and have some money left which I'm willing to put up. I was thinking of giving each team 1B gold to play with. What do u think? The winning team gets to donate theirs and the losing team gives me their 1B back.

Something else also, I'd like to keep this all very good natured. In the end, there is no best way, just a best technique for each individual and I'd like everyone to respect that. (This is more for anyone wishing to post comments rather than the proponents involved). So lots of good natured ribbing and raspberry blowing is great, but no one is better than any other. I was hoping this would be more a learning excercise for all the rest of us.
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Nevermind the cost of the entire gear to be used. How about both DW and Skorn users having the closest tdps so it boils down to skill and build instead of gear?
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03/26/2013 07:40 PMPosted by MasterPUA
Nevermind the cost of the entire gear to be used. How about both DW and Skorn users having the closest tdps so it boils down to skill and build instead of gear?


Wouldn't work....tDPS only reflects Sprint and WW damage....if you weren't using those skills, it would be a useless statistic....plus I think Morpheus would be interested to see the gearing strategy overall instead of handcuffing us to a limit.
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@ Wayneold

Thanks mate, that would be fantastic. To have you on board would be great. I wouldn't ask you to donate any gold though, your time and skills would be more than I could ask. I would ask though for your thoughts on defining the specifics of the challenge. My initial thoughts are as above but some definite guidelines I think would be necessary. Also, any help in enlisting the above mentioned barbarians or others you think suitable would be appreciated. It would be nice to see people of your and their calibre involved.


As far as specifics....if there is a team, I would say a fun way to do it would be to have 3-4 participants for either side, average all their solo times, and then do a 4 person group run of the Ubers....I wouldn't count the time it takes for 5 stack, too much RNG involved with packs....takes just a couple extra health packs to screw up the average. Requiring someone to keep 5 stacks and keep their build consistent sounds like a solid bet though.

As far as helping to enlist people, I would suggest you post a link to this in their gearing threads, or other threads they check on a regular basis.
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03/26/2013 07:43 PMPosted by Wayneold
Nevermind the cost of the entire gear to be used. How about both DW and Skorn users having the closest tdps so it boils down to skill and build instead of gear?


Wouldn't work....tDPS only reflects Sprint and WW damage....if you weren't using those skills, it would be a useless statistic....plus I think Morpheus would be interested to see the gearing strategy overall instead of handcuffing us to a limit.


I sooo want to know which style and build is better instead of gearing strategy. Maybe tdps for DW and dps for Skorn? :-)
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03/26/2013 07:49 PMPosted by MasterPUA
I sooo want to know which style and build is better instead of gearing strategy. Maybe tdps for DW and dps for Skorn? :-)


No way to really measure the ratio of tDPS to stat sheet DPS....as far as which style is better....

Fast farming videos, and theorycrafting:
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/8088618856

When comparing elite kill times the builds are nearly identical. DAKKON has since recorded even faster kill times in this topic:

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7415515590?page=4

While using WW and Revenge.

As far as Ubers....HoTA has always recorded the best times, and I don't see that changing....I think if a 2H ww/Rend build was played nearly perfect it would come close to a HoTA time...but I can't see it being drastically different.
Edited by Wayneold#1685 on 3/26/2013 7:57 PM PDT
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Interested to see Wayneold playing again!
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@ MasterPUA

Rather than this being a "We're better than you" excercise, I think it would be more of a benefit to everyone if we could learn how these gentlemen go through their thought processes in terms of gearing choices and strategies. Even though I love my Skorn, I don't really care who wins, just hoping to pick up some tips along the way :)

In terms of which is the better technique, I don't think there is an answer for that. Just which is the better technique for you personally.

@ Wayneold

Good suggestions mate. I agree, a team of 3 or 4 a side would be good if we can recruit enough people. I'm only new to the forums and so don't really know anyone here unfortunately. It seems to me that Phatphoeater and Nived are the most active members helping with gearing and so I was hoping to have one on each team as resident gearing experts and then another 2 or 3 members as the fighters. Adding or averaging the best times from 2/3 or 3/4 of the group, placing less pressure on everyone, using the same gearset, were my thoughts. In terms of a 4 group uber though, part of the excercise is to use the purchased gear and so I don't think this would work.

I was wondering, if you had time, if you could pop into their threads and just ask if they could pop over here and take a look? I think it would be much more convincing coming from you than someone they're never met before. Otherwise I'll be happy to see what I can do.
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@ Wayneold

Yes, I saw Dakkon's thread, awesome. That gives me an idea too. The fighters need to use at least 2 different skills/passives than the others and so testing the flexibility of the builds. What do you think?
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I would suggest you don't handcuff yourself to making sure you have 2H and 1H experts....do it playground style. Get 8 people willing to participate, assign 2 team captains, select teams and go from there. By confining 1 team to 1H weapons and 1 team to 2H weapons I think you will see nearly identical builds from everyone in the group....maybe better to shake it up, eh? Almost like a Barbarian Olympics....
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I'm flattered to be mentioned among the others here, but I'm no longer a gearing expert. AH prices have gone haywire and I've spent much more time playing rather than gearing others.

I've never been a participant in the discussions regarding speed kills. My approach has always been budget oriented, not necessarily fastest kill oriented. I could never compete with the super geared folks you've mentioned here.
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@ PhatPhoEater

Thank you for reading the post mate. I think you would be invaluable to this excercise as I see it. The challenge from your end would be to, with the help of your team mates, acquire gear from the GAH with the gold provided by myself and an analysis of why you made the choices that you did. So rather than commenting on the price of bananas this Summer, it would be more a matter of why you chose this particular item to achieve that particular breakpoint with the advantage that the increased average damage gives to your whirly bird etc. None of this would involve your own gear and you wouldn't necessarily have to do any of the runs either. More I'd be interested on the commentary on gearing choices, which I think would be very educational for all of us here.

Pretty please? :)
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It's pretty awesome to be mentioned amongst the likes of uberjager, wayneold, pho, death and dakkon. Unfortunately, much like pho, I've never had the privilege to play with gear that is up to par with what some of these top barbs use. Don't get me wrong, my gear is of some value, but nothing near what some of these higher tier barbs are equipped with. However, i am willing to participate in whatever it is you need me for. There is only one detail i am a bit confused with concerning this whole challenge.. are both sets of players going to be using the same spec (Hota or WW), or are we just comparing dw vs skorn?
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Here is my idea....take it or leave it....

Two teams of 3-4 barbarians (dependent on participation) we will assign team captains as voted upon by the participating members, then pick the teams playground style. Teams will have 1.5 billion gold to work with, and the captain will deal the funds accordingly, the distribution of the funds does not have to be equal among the members.

The goal is to solo MP10 Ubers with the gear purchased for each individual. Each team will have to have at least 1 member be dual wield and at least 1 member use a 2H weapon. After the individual kill times are recorded a team battle against MP10 Ubers will be done as well. All kill times will be averaged to determine a winning team. Any incomplete solo battles will be assessed a 10 minute kill time and the player who was unable to kill the boss battle solo must die and become a carry for the duration of the team battle in the last round. If the remaining team members can't carry the last battle they will be assessed a 10 minute kill time for that boss battle.

I would be willing to kick in my remaining 500 mill to make this work. I have no idea if the other funds could be obtained.

Can I also make a suggestion to try to recruit acrimony? I don't get along with the guy in the very least....but it could really make for a fun time if we are on opposing teams....or even more fun if we have to work together.....our poor teammate in that case, lol
Edited by Wayneold#1685 on 3/26/2013 10:22 PM PDT
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Oh, and all gear and gems must be purchased with funds provided, AH screenshots required. After the challenge is done we could raffle off the gear sets, or whatever the person who supplies the funds would like to do really....
Edited by Wayneold#1685 on 3/26/2013 10:19 PM PDT
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@ Nived

Thanks so much for dropping by mate. I've seen you're thread and all the help that you've given everyone and think that you'd be the perfect person for this challenge. Rather than being a purely competitive thing, I'm hoping that it will be more of an educational excercise for everyone and certainly for me.

All of this is rather embryonic and details need to be sorted out and your input also would be much appreciated. The basic concept I have however is:

1. I provide 1B gold to two teams, Team Skorn and Team Dual Wield.
2. You and (I hope) Pho would be in charge of gearing our fighting exponents, keeping discussions on open forum as much as possible for us all to follow your thought processes and gearing/breakpoint aims, fighting/skills choices etc
3 The average times of the 2 or 3 proponents taken to kill the mp10 Ubers decides the winner
4. Winning team can donate the gear bought
5. Losing team pays back my 1B gold.

What do you think
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@ Wayneold

That could work too mate. I'll have a think about it. It will depend on who we can gather also. I think, to give the challenge some cred, we need gentlemen of your calibre involved.
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