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Well, you can put me down for a slot for sure.....something like this could get me out of retirement for a short time at least. I enjoy the challenge.
If you can get others on board....I'll be here waiting.
In fact, I'm going to go see if I can get acrimony's attention....this should turn out well......wish me luck.
Edited by Wayneold#1685 on 3/26/2013 10:33 PM PDT
Some other people I would suggest:
Jacked (if he still plays)
any of these guys (stolen from Nike's goodbye thread):
Honrgyuh (Throw/PVP) (Man sorry weve been long time friends but i still had difficulties typing your name!)
This is a great idea mate.. Good for the barb community in general. Will definitely support this endeavor...
This i definitely want to see.. All in good fun of course.. Wayne and Acri on opposing teams....
I have been giving this some thought, and certainly would like to hear further suggestions from the players involved. Wayneold, thank you for your suggestions mate, they have a lot of merit. For this particular excercise though, I am hoping it will be educational for all of us and so I think we need to limit the number of variables as much as possible and thus allow a more detailed analysis of the variables that they do have. If we limit it to one gear set per team, it will be much easier to have a detailed discussion of the merits of that particular set and why certain gearing choices were made. Introducing 3 or 4 sets of armour choices I think will be confusing and make in depth analysis harder.
Two teams consisting of 4 players each. One member will be the Gearer, responsible for the purchase and having the final say on gear choices. The other three members will be the Fighters, who will do the runs. I'm sure that, whomever we able to recruit, each individual would be equally capable of playing either or both roles. For this excercise however, I'd like to separate the roles and thus hear the discussions as to why gear choices were made. One of the fighters will be the Captain, responsible for the overall direction of the group. The Captain, and other fighters, will convey their requirements to the Gearer but as I stated, final gearing choices will be made by the Gearer.
I will provide each Gearer with 1B gold. He is then responsible for the purchase of one set of gear which is to be used by each of the 3 Fighters in their challenge. Perhaps a preamble by the Gearer and Captain on what their requirements are and the goals they are trying to achieve with their gear set would be nice.
As well as allowing the gear discussion to be more focused, limiting the challenge to one gear set will hopefully have other benefits. It should allow the Fighers a sporting chance of completing the challenge well, allow them some flexibility in their play styles, and also make the gearsets desirable for the rest of us.
Whatever skills the Fighter feels most comfortable with and effective for the task. The Fighter is to have 5 VN however throughout the Uber challenge so there is to be no switching of skills. A commentary on their choice of skills by each fighter would also be nice.
I am thinking of having the Gearer and two well known players and for the fourth position in the team, a general member of the Barbarian community here. This final member is to be decided on by the Captain. Anyone having posted a video of their gameplay anywhere online I will exclude from this 4th position, as this generally indicates a higher level of skill than I would like for this position.
Dual Weild Team
Wayneold was the first to join and so I nominate him as Captain of this team. I am hoping that PhatPhoEater will agree to be the DW Gearer, please let me know Sir. Wayneold, if you can get Acrimonious to participate, that would be superb.
Nived, I am hoping you will agree to be the Gearer for this team. I have sent hello's to Death and Dakkon on their recent threads and hopefully they will reply. Whomever agrees to join first will be Captain. I'm afraid I don't know how to contact any other potential Skorn members.
I am open to suggestions and help in recruiting would be great. Anyone on your list I'm sure would be superb Wayneold. Calling out to Uberjagger, Joch, King Arthur and all our other esteemed Barbarians...... :)
Thanks to everyone in advance
Edited by Morpheus#6524 on 3/27/2013 1:57 AM PDT
Thanks for the offer, opens up new possibilities :). The 1B however is to fund just one set of gear which will be passed on from one player to the next. Not 4 different sets of gear. You're right 250M per character would not be enough.
Well I'm honored to be mentioned as a possible team leader in this for the 2H crowd. Had no idea some of you guys held me in such high regard. However I have a few concerns with this in terms of fairness to both parties. And also the budgets being tossed around in this thread.
1st for the 1.5b or 1b budget anyone should be able to put together a barb of either dual wield or 2H flavor that can clear MP10 ubers so I'm not sure what that's supposed to prove. I propose a more modest budget of 100-150m max so it will really come down to player skill and not down to what gear was purchased.
Next as for fairness how do we determine what price was paid for each item or how do we stop some players (not directly accusing anyone) of letting their chosen champion borrow some really good pieces for the challenge?
And lastly I propose that if this does happen that no matter the outcome both teams raffle off their gear set to new player to get them going.
Sounds good man, I didn't even think of only buying 1 set for each team....wow, that is a much better idea....and a lot less complicated. Now that I reread your OP I see that was your idea the whole time...how shortsighted of me.
As far as team captain goes....I don't really have the pulse of the AH anymore....plus, gearing was never actually my greatest skill....we might be best to assemble a list of participants first before chosing captains. Its not that I would decline....but I do admit, there are others out there with more knowledge in the current economies state than myself. Also, I will ask Dep to join.....can't believe I almost forgot about him....he has helped me with testing in the past and is a very skilled player. Also, I would love to have Nubtro and/or Chazhang contribute.....but I think they are both on the Euro server.....
It is a shame.
Edited by Wayneold#1685 on 3/27/2013 5:45 AM PDT
@Morpheus I didnt even think of passing gear around, that would be a good idea. I thought you meant more of each person had a budget (4 Skorn and 4 DW) and they worked individually to gear up four barbs which would work both as a team and solo to get the best clear times and also ubers kill times in the hopes that they could put together a budget barb for cheap.
1b per set of gear though would definitly be able to clear MP10 though I suspect! Eitherway efficiency or challange im interested in seeing the results.
-Sweety (recent Skorn -to- DW user)
Edited by Sweety#1682 on 3/27/2013 5:46 AM PDT
As for your concerns: AH screenshots will be required....if someone is so bold to post their items on the AH for a reduced price just for the purpose of this challenge.....I hope a botter picks it up, lol.
Also, I don't think Morpheus (in this case the funder of this exercise) is interested so much in seeing the difficulty involved per se, but rather what one of us would spend 1 billion gold on and why....and then what build we think optimizes the gear set and why. Reducing the amount of gold would definitely increase difficulty, but it would also reduce efficiency...and I think he is looking for an optimized gear set.
Also, I agree with putting the gear set back into the community.....but Morpheus has agreed to fund this little experiment, seems only right he is given the opportunity to decide what to do with the gear set at the end.
Edited by Wayneold#1685 on 3/27/2013 6:24 AM PDT
What Wayneold said :). I think with the amount of talent here, skill level in itself is not an issue. I guess the measure of the skill can be in the relative kill times. I think everyone would agree with me, they would love to see you all in action and with a single gearset per team as a levelling bar, skills would shine. I am also hoping however that this would be an excercise to benefit the whole community and seeing how you gentlemen approach the gearing and skills aspect of the game, once again on a set budget, I think would be very useful to other aspiring Barbarians.
I'm willing to personally put up the 2B required for the challenge and to have the winning gear distributed. If the losing team members are happy to refund the 1B for their team, it would be nice to also distribute this amongst the community.
I am thinking that a 1B budget would be achievable for many players here and thus your gearsets would serve as a benchmark for starting to mid-level players who could keep them as their endgame targets, knowing that they could achieve mp10 Ubers with them. Budget sets are a good start, but I don't think something that most players would aspire too or keep for very long and would require highly skilled players to use, of which the rest of us aren't.
Thank you for addressing Death's concerns so eloquently :). As per my last post (sorry, I know quite long winded :), I was going to assign one of the four team members as a Gearer. His/Her role would be solely to be responsible for the choice and purchase of gear, with the direction of the fighers of course. Team Captain I am assigning to a fighter. In separating these roles I am trying to achieve two aims:
1. Have someone who specialises in gearing
2. Because the buying and use of the gear are separate, there would need to be discussion between the fighters and gearer, which would be very interesting for the rest of us to hear.
My inital thoughts were to ask Phatphoeater and Nived to be the Buyers, but if they are not available, gentlemen such as those you have mentioned would be more than welcome.
I've heard you talked about mate, it would have been nice to see you in action but that's ok. Thanks for dropping by.
Edited by Morpheus#6524 on 3/27/2013 6:28 AM PDT
I think the division of labor is being over-thought. Most of the people you listed are fully capable of building good sets.
Not to be a downer, but many of the gearing choices are cookie cutter. Neither myself nor Nived hold any secret recipe to successful gearing. If you look at our barbs, they look very similar. I'm sure that part of this challenge is to think about new gearing choices, but since there havent been any changes to skill mechanics most choices havent changed for several patches.
@Morpheus -- it's a great challenge, I'm sure. But I'm done with Softcore -- I just liquidated everything on my Softcore Barbarian a few days ago and gave up my remaining gold to DAKKON. The real challenge lies in Hardcore -- every run is a risk. Doing speed kills on MP10 in Softcore doesn't get my heart racing any more. I pulled off a 6 minute solo back in November after seeing det0x pull off a 4 minute solo kill. All this challenge does is create an illusion that one method of killing is better than the other with what is likely going to be carbon-copy sets. You got a sub-15,000 elite kills 'gear expert' who wouldn't have a clue in a different non-duped market gearing a Skorn Barb, Wayneold who dodges challenges until the last possible second, etc. At the very least, if you guys want a challenge, go get Joch.
I have proved everything I needed to prove in Softcore.
Meta-game disagreements aside, if it's fun for you guys, have at it. It's just not for me.
Good luck everyone.
Edited by acrimony#1561 on 3/27/2013 7:02 AM PDT
I admit this is extremely compelling.
EDIT: However, what Pho is saying is fairly true. The builds will effectively be the same. I think Pho underestimates how much of a cheapskate he is! :D I think he would be able to outshop most of us...assuming there was considerable amount of time to shop. Bids would be the most economical way of gearing as BiN purchase always end up with weaker DPS for more cash unless one is extremely lucky.
I also think that the edge in gearing efficiency will currently go to skorn users as dropping a good amount of gold on 1 good skorn vs 2 good 1-handers itself would probably be more economical. I don't think it is some great mystery that as of right now skorn users have the price efficiency edge for being able to clear more difficult content at a better price point.
This battle would turn from skorn vs dw to a Hota/Rend vs WW barb. Only because buying the necessary 2 one handers that will allow a hota dw build would probably be 500 mil on their own with current market prices.
Edited by Pri#1584 on 3/27/2013 7:09 AM PDT
@ Morpheus it is an excellent idea you have here to see the inner workings of some of the more well regarded barbs around here and learn how they tick when it comes to their gear and build choices. It's also incredibly generous of you to front the gold to see this to fruition. The level of trust is unparalleled in that regard. However while it is fun to work with a 1b budget I'm not so sure that's a reality for most players or the average player anyway.
The reason I state a more modest budget is to put some of the ideas and gearing within reach of the average gamer. Maybe see how each team makes the most out of a 500m budget and then see how it fares in MP10 ubers and see if their philosophy and gear choices pay dividends.
You can count me on board but I still think putting this within reach of the average player will do more to benefit the community. With a 1B budget you can really cover up a lot of poor gear choices through just plain damage output and heavily relying on rend....AKA glass cannons. This build is useable as long as you can reach something to hit or stay clear of health link + reflect mobs but is not really a sound strategy and certainly not one that is applauded or encouraged.
Edited by Death#1408 on 3/27/2013 7:11 AM PDT
I see your concerns and they could very well be true. As I posted previously, I am most certain that evry single player mentioned could fulfill both roles equally well. However, looking at the forum posts it seems to me that the majority of posts are regarding gearing issues and Nived's thread continues to be extremely popular. This says to me that it is an issue of interest to many forum readers here.
The division of roles is purely to force a discussion between the players so that the rest of us could follow your thought patterns. I note that currently both you and Nived are running DW setups whereas gearing for DW and gearing for Skorn I would think would be slightly different. And in your case, a quick summary and reference back to your excellent article would be great.
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