before continuing I would like you to present other examples apart from D3, it seems very anti-D3 centric from everything I've read so far, and only PoE mentioned here and there. As much as I'm concerned most of the ideas presented ultimately will backfire in a sense. I'm reading it as if I'm a player, the thing with the skills already is like PoE's skill gem, you either find them or you don't, meaning player's dont have a choice in what they are going to build, it's simply RNG that will get them that ability. The player isn't unique, the system makes them unique, not player choice. PoE quest rewards grant you certain skill gems so it is still player choice driven, not a set skill gem that is granted upon completion.
And believe me that will piss people off to no end, just like how certain skill gems are dropped only on PoE, which goes through trade to obtain most of the time.
There are a LOT of ARPGs out on the market, just not all of them look like PoE Diablo3, Torchlight2. They are indeed ACTION games and RPG games. They should not be ignored, if you are expecting to bring players a new experience. Games like Vindictus are MMOARPG but in reality it's party sizes of 1-8 players for runs, that's exactly like D2, and this game differs immensely between classes and works well. Games like Dragon Nest are also MMOARPG, they call it MMO simply because in Town you see millions of people or hundreds around you, without that lobby you may as well call it just an ARPG which is the core of game play. 1-4 players or so generally.
C9 was different from Vindictus, but some people made the comparison anyways, C9 is more lik street fighter with input combination and enemy juggling. It is very much so an ARPG and has skill trees and skill books and weapon customization and equipment customization and character customization. Most players who couldn't stand that complexity simply quit, others came for the graphics and the intense PvP that came with it. They even hold PvP tournaments.
If you need videos here's a playlist of certain elements, just between C9 Vindictus and Path of Exile, they are all in their respective lists.
You can also contact me there if you'd like, I check that more frequently than here. My old channel I left it as is, because that was for 3D work.
They are all ARPGs. To innovate you must be able to differ from all of these by improving upon them in one way or another, and if you remove features then you better have something up your sleeve to accomodate, or you're short-selling your game concept with features.
ArcheAge reminds me of...
The book system, I have heard of such things before, to claim it doesn't exist means there hasn't been enough checking out of the latest games, C9 adopts a book system much like you mentioned, but it works on a skill tree system, that isn't presented as a skill tree but in terms of functionality is a skill tree, it's presented in grids.
I can source a lot of material just off the top of my head like a game encyclopedia which is why I'm piss angry at myself why that post earlier I tried to write didn't submit.
PoE's skill tree isn't vast or limitless or limited restriction, it grants more freedom than other ARPGs out there, most players are stuck on "oh its a skill tree". No in essence it's "where do my stats go" and is a progress indicator that your character is growing in power. Their skill GEMS are exactly like Diablo 3 if anyone fails to realize. Only thing is, is that it's restricted to slots you have on gear, but is completely upgradeable in quality to grant additional effects to the gem and it levels based on combat experience.You don't need to say things like "it is amazing" to sell us a concept, we are here to help and just as much provide feedback already, it makes your concept verbose and somehow a little less confident if you have to say them
. As an artist, before I graduated the demo reel was basically, show us the best first, and keep the crap for last, the good things will speak on its own, the bad won't.
The problem that lies there is if you say it too much we'll start looking at other things as a provoking challenge to show you such other systems exist, and then it won't seem so amazing anymore :/
People thought D3's system is one of a kind, it really isn't, it's like Guild Wars 1 functionality, and has a Call of Duty unlocking scheme with your skills being a weapon loadout and your perks being passive skills. The correlation between D3 and Call of duty in terms of build and skill functionality is extremely apparent, only difference is one is RPG and the other is FPS. RPG is generally PvE centric, FPS is generally PvP centric. Which like D3 is peopel grinding days on end for ... nothing really, and CoD PvP people shooitng each other over and over, they don't exactly redo campaign repeatedly.
err I don't really understand this part
Even if twenty players are fire-casters, I’m sure no one will be like my fire-caster character (Blaze). I’m 1000% sure of that.
So.. character name is the only differentiation :( ?
Before I leave this topic I want to discuss something that is happening in POE. There is a saying in the movie The Incredibles that if everyone is a hero, then nobody is a hero.
everyone in Diablo 3 is an overpowered nephalem, and it is highly enforced repeatedly that way, much to everything else that makes no sense.
- (Weapon) Sword of Ichimaru – a sword that can elongate and spear all enemies in front of you
- (Skill) Cunning of Ichimaru – Set on fire anything struck by the Sword of Ichimaru
- (Spell) Vengence of Ichimaru – The Sword of Ichimaru will seek the target anywhere he is once the spell is cast
By collecting all of these three cards and placing them in your Book, you can use them against your enemies.
You can have as many card as you can collect in your book. But that does not mean you can use all of them against anyone. You have to bind your Book cards against your keyboard and all keyboard have limitations. Let us say that we allow 10 keyboard bindings for now. That means you can only use 10 cards at any time against enemies.
So all weapons skills and spells are denoted by Cards? There is only one item of importance in the game then is just these cards, a balance that will be highly hard to adjust and fix for everyone to have equal chance to gain one of 3 categories, weapons skill or spell. and if someone wanted to play with magic, they have no incentive to create on their own since the system generates these by luck of the draw? Nerfing and buffing as you go won't make players happy, D3 is a good example of what happened in the past.
A triple card system of if you do have a weapon skill and spell, you might want to look up Survival Project, a game of early 2000s or 1998s of an ARPG that came from KR and was only alive in the NA regions for a short time, I played the KR version, this is about the most skill-based game I played back then, the only problem was !@#$ty networking and lag.
The focus and priority for now is not the graphics nor the art that is involved in Injum. It is not even the funding. It is getting the game structure and mechanics right.
We are reversing the process on how the industry is working right now. They first make the game and then involve the community later. We are going to disrupt this by involving the community from the start. And once the momentum is too strong to be ignored, the magical billionaire will come out and fund the game engine, the art, and the graphics.
If we are going to fail with Injum we will fail at the concept level. We will not waste anybody’s programming skill nor graphics designing skill. At the end it is an exercise of creative thinking. And it won’t be a complete loss, because there is pleasure in imagining things and being able to share those to others who value the same things.
hmm.. don't be so sure, PoE funded itself between 19 like-minded individuals with the same goal in mind and they could care less about the funding as long as they got their game to be what they wanted. That's what I'm looking for, good game, not cash even if I am a student struggling to make ends meet.
The main question is though, how much of a community are you going to get involved before it's too much? Projects that smart with a small team generally produce good results. Gabe Newell successful co-founder and CEO of valve makes excellent points:
"4 programmer guys come up to me say they have a great idea and need an office space" Gabe: "Okay go take up an office and put a sign on the door or something so no one disturbs you" Weeks/months later : new innovation hits market.
Portal - Made by a few people, extremely succesful
CS Source : modified by one passionate guy. - Extremely successful
DotA - Made by a handful of people literally like 5 guys, two split off to make their RiotGames, the other 2 or 3 went to Valve.
Having a lot of people involved, means - Getting them up to speed, getting their opinion involved so they aren't an ignored asset, and teaching them the system so they can implement their idea. Doesn't sound feasible if you have a whole community affecting everything about the game in almost 99% of their aspects unless you're creating MineCraft HD, RPG-mode.
WarZ is an example that some are out there to just moneygrab, is a crowd-generated idea. Wasn't impressed.
In an interview Steve Jobs said that when he and Wozniak started, they did not really know what they were doing. But they moved on and battled the giant IBM. Many people who are pursing a big dream don’t really know what they are up to, otherwise they would have just quit. It is the jaded group of people that will serve as resistance at the early stage.
I have no experience in game programming nor do I know anything about graphics and arts. But I know what kind of game I want to play and I deeply want to play that game and share that to the world.
Actually I studied this, they did know what they were doing, buy competitor's product, rip it open, dissect it in every manner, and make a 1up of it, and sell it and make money. If Steve Jobs never had John Lasseter in making Toy Story you wouldn't have ipods and iphones today. That was a risk and a gamble for an all things go into this iPod product... i think i might've eschewed something different from memory.
Either way, if you're a programmer and you studied most of the architecture, there's a reason why most of them say "God I'm selling my soul out" when they walk into an apple store looking for an apple product. Most. If you meet a programmer that knows linux fedora and the other OS's inside out, you should be wary that they probably know more than any other programmer out there. My teacher's tell me to delete Windows because it's a virus, which isn't half as bad as what they say about Macs. "You can't do anything on them why bother".
Injum should become conceptually superior to any game or upcoming RPG game.
When Injum has reached the state that it is too delicious and too good to stay just a concept, somebody is going to make it real. We must lay our faith on that.
Give me a concise description of what will be the attraction? in 5 sentences or less, I'll believe you have an idea in mind, but you should be able to make me a pitch within 30 seconds of reading. It's still very out in the open, with the descriptions you've provided it sounds like it's at a brainstorming stage still.
The whole tower concept just sounds like Torchlight1 so far, 1 very very long dungeon except the game is created via x amount of players involved and no actual requirement. Sounds very messy to be honest. I won't be putting my faith on such a gamble that someone's going to pick it up and make it real. In my world I Make it real through my own dedication and efforts, not wait for someone to pick it up.
Bill Gates drops out of college because he had a good idea and know what he wanted. Micro hardware architecture with programmed Software that helped illustrate these things to a more interactive level by utilizing windows as a form of displaying and utilizing hardware specifications. Thus was born Windows and MicroSoft.