Diablo® III

After testing both Calamity and Manticore

Yes, I understand that this type of thread has been posted and reposted multiple times. But I am here to gain feedback on those who have used both Calamity and Manticore; not deciding which one I should buy.

After using both weapons on all MP's and PVP, I have come to the conclusion that Manticore is superior to Calamity. Manticore reigns supreme in terms of straight DPS; it is simple and effective. Although slower in attack speed, the damage output is double that of Calamity.

Calamity is neat in terms of faster attack speed, hatred regen, and Marked for Death perk. But that to me is just a bunch of smoke and mirrors. My kill speed is slower although I do gain discipline faster with Nightstalker; my survivability is lower because monsters are not dying as quick as when I use Manticore.Yes, I can permagloom with Calamity but why would I need to when Manticore would just simply eliminate the monsters before they can kill me?

In PVP, the edge still goes to Manticore with the exception of a few matchups, but this can develop into a thread of its own. Manticore once again shines in terms of pure DPS, killing enemies before they get the chance to kill me or running away before I get the chance to kill them.

The point of this thread was to share my experiences with both weapons and also gain the communities feedback and experiences regarding both weapons. Feel free to add any insight or if there was anything I missed in my opening discussion. I am looking forward to hearing your responses!
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manticore isn't double the dps, sorry. sure it is more paper dps, but not nearly double and the actual output of both is pretty similar if geared properly
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10-20% max for manti > cala

you hit more with calamity period
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Well actually, it is! Using the same skills, the numbers I see are roughly double the damage while using Manticore.

For example, Hungering arrow using:
Calamity ~200k
Manticore ~400k

Cluster Arrow - LFB
Calamity ~550k
Manticore ~1.2mil

but this is from my experience.
:)
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that doesn't mean it's dps is double; you attack significantly slower with manticore. not to mention you have more hatred to spend using calamity which adds dps
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Yes, I have more hatred if I use Calamity, but I have to shoot more frequently to match 2 LFB which would only be equal to 1 LFB if I had a Manticore.

The slower attack speed is not that large of a difference for me, maybe this would only pertain to my gear but I am shooting less shots and killing things faster with Manti!
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@OP

It all falls down to playstyle in the end. Some people like shooting fast and some prefers higer dps but slower.

you've got nice gear man for 11k elite kills. You must have gotten lucky drops early in the game to be able to afford all those :)
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@OP

It all falls down to playstyle in the end. Some people like shooting fast and some prefers higer dps but slower.

you've got nice gear man for 11k elite kills. You must have gotten lucky drops early in the game to be able to afford all those :)


Lol
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04/01/2013 04:56 PMPosted by greatdivider
manticore isn't double the dps, sorry. sure it is more paper dps, but not nearly double and the actual output of both is pretty similar if geared properly


Well actually, it is! Using the same skills, the numbers I see are roughly double the damage while using Manticore.

For example, Hungering arrow using:
Calamity ~200k
Manticore ~400k

Cluster Arrow - LFB
Calamity ~550k
Manticore ~1.2mil

but this is from my experience.
:)


Manticore is superior to calamity dps wise but it doesnt do double the dps, it does however, have approximately double the weapon dmg of a calamity. This makes for far more efficient hatred spending.
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Yes, I understand that this type of thread has been posted and reposted multiple times. But I am here to gain feedback on those who have used both Calamity and Manticore; not deciding which one I should buy.

After using both weapons on all MP's and PVP, I have come to the conclusion that Manticore is superior to Calamity. Manticore reigns supreme in terms of straight DPS; it is simple and effective. Although slower in attack speed, the damage output is double that of Calamity.

Calamity is neat in terms of faster attack speed, hatred regen, and Marked for Death perk. But that to me is just a bunch of smoke and mirrors. My kill speed is slower although I do gain discipline faster with Nightstalker; my survivability is lower because monsters are not dying as quick as when I use Manticore.Yes, I can permagloom with Calamity but why would I need to when Manticore would just simply eliminate the monsters before they can kill me?

In PVP, the edge still goes to Manticore with the exception of a few matchups, but this can develop into a thread of its own. Manticore once again shines in terms of pure DPS, killing enemies before they get the chance to kill me or running away before I get the chance to kill them.

The point of this thread was to share my experiences with both weapons and also gain the communities feedback and experiences regarding both weapons. Feel free to add any insight or if there was anything I missed in my opening discussion. I am looking forward to hearing your responses!


This is my response to a thread exactly like this.

"IMO, I feel that the paper damage difference isn't the most accurate way to measure both weapons edps potential. I'll admit that I'm a bit biased towards the Calamity, but with my playstyle, there are things I can do with a Calamity that I simply can't do nearly as effective with a Manticore.

For example, with a Calamity, I can efficiently slot steady aim and have it effective nearly 90% of the time by stutter stepping. Because of the attack speed, I can gain a lot of ground by stepping and in turn keep my distance without having to burn discipline. I tried step test with a manticore with all cheap attack speed gear, and even with the most attack speed possible, I was still not able to keep over half the mobs at a distance as they gained ground on me always and forced me to use disc. This means I'd have to swap out a passive for night stalker or use prep in my skill bar, causing me to lose out on dps.

With this said, being able to keep up the bonus from steady aim and have a slot for cull the weak (both stack extremely well together), far outweighs the paper damage (50-70k ish) that manticore would give me for my playstyle, thus I'm actually dealing more EDPS with a calamity setup.
"

Like someone stated in this thread already, its highly dependent on your setup/playstyle. Calamity will always give me more EDPS than a manticore ever would due to my playstyle. Obviously this won't be the case for most people, but to say a manticore will always do more edps no matter the setup is incorrect.
Edited by DiEoxidE#1987 on 4/1/2013 6:23 PM PDT
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how the hell do you have all that top end gear with 11k kills? LOL duped gear i might add, god i cant wait till blizz kills all the duping tommorow.

That said i own BOTH calamity and manti at the top end and i can tell you it depends on your build and play style for one to be superior to the other. IF your going to just face tank spike trap build then manticore wins if your going to play a stutter stepping cull the weak/steady aim build calamity wins.

Pretty simple really lol

one benefits movement the other benefits being stationary.
Edited by METATRON#1945 on 4/1/2013 6:25 PM PDT
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@DiEoxidE

Thanks for the feedback, you make some good points! I have been using Calamity more frequently to truly give it a chance. Not sure if it is my build but I cannot seem to kill things fast enough before things would surround me thus forcing me to just face tank. With Manti, there are often times I face tank too, but also many times when i can just blow things up before they can get close enough! Perhaps Cull of the Weak is the Xfactor..
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@DiEoxidE

Thanks for the feedback, you make some good points! I have been using Calamity more frequently to truly give it a chance. Not sure if it is my build but I cannot seem to kill things fast enough before things would surround me thus forcing me to just face tank. With Manti, there are often times I face tank too, but also many times when i can just blow things up before they can get close enough! Perhaps Cull of the Weak is the Xfactor..


http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/8197582868

Checkout the first vid in this thread. We're able to stutter step efficiently with the attack speed of a calamity, allowing us to stay distant and focus less on disc usage. I am able to drop night stalker for cull the weak for more damage, and can get rid of prep for another damage booster or skill (maybe mark of death, or bat for more hatred spending, or turrets, etc). When you factor all these things, your EDPS jumps up considerably. I will say that its a !@#$ ton harder to play like this and thus most people shy away from it, but for me I find it fun and exhilarating.

If you used your current gear setup in your profile for both weapons that you tested, then I can also see why the manticore is the clear winner for you by far. Your average damage on your jewerly is really low, and having high average damage is crucial for using a Calamity and probably one of the most important factors if you want to do more edps with one.

Hope that helps a bit :)
Edited by DiEoxidE#1987 on 4/1/2013 6:38 PM PDT
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@DiEoxidE

Nice! Thanks for the feedback again. One thing I must say is the animation on Calamity does look way cooler than Manti lol
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Question: If you have a 1300 DPS, 2 socket manticore and a 1300 DPS one socket calamity with 90+% CD. Wouldn't the calamity have the edge assuming you put one emerald and one ruby in the manti and one ruby in the calamity due to calamity's faster AS (giving the calamity the edge with the ruby?)
In other words, same rated DPS on the bows, same Crit Damage and same increased damage from the ruby but with the calamity being faster?

This is a question as I don't know. I don't have the gold for either of those lol

I guess at the very high end, you can get a higher DPS rated manti than calamity?
Edited by Thanos#1268 on 4/2/2013 6:37 AM PDT
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@thanos

easiest way to get an answer:
d3up.com
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Manticore gives you such a small amount of resource regeneration, youre probably using a mixture of 1/2 skills and 2/3 equipments to help you regenerate hatred and disc faster.. instead of just using a 1h which is well cooler =p

calamity
>helps regen both resources (nightstalker helps the disc.)
>fast atks look !@#$ing cool
>Can kite/stutter step incredibly fast (harder to master but that only means calamity users have THAT MUCH MORE skill in playing a DH than you do.)
>Gloom benefits more from this (you'll probably say 'no it doesn't, manti gives me more health.')
Yes manti does give you A TON OF MORE HEALTH in over a longer period of time.. but the question is how big is your health pool that all of that health regenerated is actually being used and being stored in your health globe.. for calamity we regen at least half of our health for every atk (thats our full health in 2-3 atks.. we already atk 2.2 atks per sec or higher.. so every second we regenerate more than our full health globe..

Manti
>Higher DPS
>Your kites are so slow (yea you can run away for longer since u dont kite as much) but most ppl use a skill that slows or stuns monsters,, you can atk 1.8 a sec usually, so lets take bola shot thunder ball.. its useless to you for calamity users (2.25+ atks speed) we can practically perma stun enemies
>less skill required to stutter step.. what a noob
>>GLOOM SUCKS: Okay you regenerate your entire health in 1 hit, but most of the hp regenerated isnt even used (your health globe isnt large enough), also there are a ton of %^-*ing mobs atking you.. You can't possible survive with such a slow amount of income health, that is also inefficient
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>>GLOOM SUCKS: Okay you regenerate your entire health in 1 hit, but most of the hp regenerated isnt even used (your health globe isnt large enough), also there are a ton of %^-*ing mobs atking you.. You can't possible survive with such a slow amount of income health, that is also inefficient


Um... Gloom is probably the best mitigation and survival skill in this game. You're right, your health globe isn't large enough to store all of the health stolen from Shadow Power. Combined with a ton of damage mitigation and possibility to chain them endlessly, I'm not sure at all how this becomes inefficient.

If you're finding a lack of return from this skill, I would recommend you try it with higher powered skills like Echo Traps or Cluster Arrow LFB, then tell me you think that it isn't worth while.

Your native mitigation might also be too low, it's hard to tell since it looks like you're in a strafe setup.
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Your gear is not optimized for using a Calamity imo, not enough average damage. Anyways, you also need to know that skills like Spike traps will almost always with a Manticore because attack speed is not factored in. You might hit harder with a Manti, but you attack slower. And for the people getting on the OP about buying his/her gear, why does that matter? Why should we be fragmenting the community on such a non issue.
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@ Namzug

holy mackerel, I didn't realize, but I count a grand total of 77 AR on your gear with an obvious bias toward Armor. There is also a VERY HEFTY 19% FIRE DAMAGE Andy's Helm. Yikes!

DH does not live by Gloom alone...
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