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Been playing my DH a bit more and really like my Ninja + Sentry build.
Some quick questions:
1. I know Sentry does not benefit from my Critical damage and Critical chance but does it benefit from the 15% damage buff from Archery since I am using Windforce?
2. Numbing Trap can reduce monster's damage by 20% for 3s. Can the Rocket from Sentry trigger the same debuff? I figure 3 projectiles are better at debuffing than one, although most people just use Guardian for extra safety. I kinda need more damage. lol
3. Sentry benefits from attack speed right?
*rubs hands in joy* ah man, I expected more and more advanced questions! :D
Sentry freak here, 'sup?
1 - Yepyep! It benefits from all types of passives that modify, including Culling of zi weak, which adds 15% dmg to slowed targets! Entangling shot = increased sentry dmg by 15%!
2 - Yes, the rockets trigger the debuff as well, in addition to also working with the 50% rocket dmg passive (which makes them go from 30% weap dmg to 45, still utterly useless...)
HOWEVER, do these things stack then? Don't know... I can't use a logical and rational reason as to why they shouldn't/should... We know multiple sentries guardian shields don't stack, but since that 3-combo would all be from 3 different sources of skills/abilities, it could... who knows? Only someone trying some uber survival pvp build would use that because it's a rather dull passive which any normal DH (or sentry specialist) wouldn't be able to afford to use at all, there are better ones. Custom Engineering is a MUST for trappers+sentry users. sharpshooter is a free 20% dmg regardless, so you're left with the last slot... If bow = Definately archery! If you run a Sentry build, then the 10 crit or 50 chd from using other weapons won't do all that much, so it can be replaced by whatever. (See my skills, Europe region though)
3 - Yepyep! But that's about it, in addition to dex, weapon dmg and avg dmg on rings + amu (which count as weapon dmg anyway) :p
The highest possible sentry dps output would theoretically be had using a bow (rare with 1450+ dps and socket for a marq ruby) but they also come with a veeery varied min-max damage, whereas a perfect Manticore, albeit much slower and losing 15% raw damage, has a much more stable damage output, (we're talking the trillionbillion 1400+ 2 socket 200 dex manticore, which doesen't really exist yet) :p Double ruby that and it'd get close to the sheet dps of the bow, but higher character dps due to it's built in crit damage.
Feel free to ask just about anything regarding sentries and such mechanics in this thread, I won't go further into the offtopic zone unless you want me to :D
Back to AH-browsing for me, gotta find a new shiny!
*continues to search for a new weapon*
ps: Before you think i'm some e-hero n0b, ignore my current weapon. It's my scoundrels' kiting tool, I merely use it to farm while waiting for AH action to happen :p Waiting for something godly to appear, rather... Bleeeh for slow european auction house, almost never any goodies getting thrown around!
Edited by Axeroid#2681 on 4/1/2013 1:36 PM PDT
Oh nice! I love hearing from some people who are devoted to certain less-popular builds.
1. How come Sharp Shooter gives 20% more damage to Sentry? Did you mean Steady Aim?
2. It's nice to know that Cull the Weak can add more damage to Sentry. I was going to ask that. Too bad I am pretty much devoted to my Chakram. My focus is on Ninja build but I need more damage especially in single target department and figure since I am not really using Hatred, Sentry can add quite a bit of ST damage for me.
I like Windforce too much. I love the knock back!
How did you find out that rockets from Sentry can debuff too? I mean isn't that very hard to test?
3. Are there any other tips? I am going to assume Sentry is quite good in PvP?
4. Any point in using the 2nd rune that reduces recharge to 6s? I just can't seem to justify that. And you said Custom Engineering is good? Well, right now I am using Nightstalker as I like having a bit more Discipline but since I am using Ruby, my critical damage/critical chance aren't high. I was thinking about Numbing Trap as I have some survival issue. And if I join a team, most fights end pretty quick to the point that two Sentry is good enough? I can see 3 being good in Uber though.
Edited by Jibikao#1131 on 4/1/2013 1:49 PM PDT
1: Yeah I get confuzzled with names, theorycrafting too much across all classes and builds :p Indeed I mean steady aim! (keep stuff afar for damage - hoooo skill, to keep it clear lol)
2: a Sentry build grants you some of the highest single target dps that a DH can have! But that also means gearing utterly weird. What I mean is max dex-speed-avg dmg jewelery. Because those things benefit sentries and nothing else, period. You can use your chakram, I do it too sometimes, love twin chakram or razor disc! Just go with entangling shot - chain gaing as main attack and skip the ever-popular devouring fart. :p It does good aoe dmg, hitting 4 targets, snares them all and grants you and yer sentry 15% dmg! Not so bad hu! You just spam chakram - chain - chakram - chain, to maintain the buff! Easy with high attackspeed ;) also never starves your hatred!
When I test things I do it simple, I get naked for less variations and then use a weapon I wish to use, and start testing :P Be it sentry dmg / shot (which is then compared to calculations/projected assumptions) or dmg recieved OR pet damages. I did find the wolf pet does beastly damage and actually has a 3 yard cleave (when some mobs with small hitboxes really are in it's face, say the tiny fallen in a 2/3) But it dies alot with subpar vit/allres on mp 3 and up!
I assumed rocket sentries debuff because they benefit from the dmg passive for rockets, had a quick go and after taking a few hundred hits (hurts, altho I can use gear for this, just vit gear tho, not to alter armor/allres too much in order to get a good high dmg taken / hit number, easier to spot variations in a 1000 hit than a 100 hit) and went by what I saw.
I haven't pvp'd but I know others who do and sentries aren't super against very tanky players. If your sentry fires at an average of 150k dmg per shot (which it will with good gear huhu) that'll end up being barely thousands vs a player, if even that. What's good is that it always hits! What's bad is you and your enemy move, and sentries have a boring cooldown.
My best tip would be: Use the smartest sentry rune. My rune xD Seriously though, in all situations except a 1+ minute fight, the 6 second sentry does the most damage because it'll take you 6-12-18 seconds to deploy your sentries, hence increasing their total dps by alot more than any other 8 second rune (8-16-24 just takes too long to get dmg rolling vs a boss or ubers).
Also in times of kiting or if you happen to misplace the sentry, OR fight a waller mod and you wish to deploy a new one which actually hits the target, the 6 second sentry always wins. Also if you just kill very quick and move from killzone to killzone, 8 seconds is too slow meaning you won't have a sentry out for every fight. Man, there are so many good reasons to use the simple 6-second-rune and nothing else unless specific situations demand it. I can understand someone wanting guardian rune for Hardcore or pvp, or even the life regen one if you go 1h+shield and aim for 100k hp :p But rocekts for raw dps = folly.
Bow = best economical choice when compared to sentry damage, windforce, but always aim for a socket because rubies rule. Get ias where you can, if you use a bow/1h xbow, aim for high avg dmg on rings/amulet, the more ias you have the more effective that damage becomes (when compared to dex).
When I used windforce and a 200m budget I had 147k dps with absolutely no crit/chd and my sentries each dealt 302k dps. I had a bit less IAS than now, sat at 76% without merc, had a bit more dex. Now I run a 600m budget and went 110% ias with merc, which nets me 200k++ dps with the same windforce under same conditions (tested, aiming even higher lol) so the speed adds more than the high dex when you reach crazy levels.
If I wanted to inflate my sheet dps i'd get more crit gear and ease up on ias but I don't care for my own stats, only what's good for the sentry. ;)
Tired fingers, sorry for writing the 86th chapter in the bible!
One last note: Shadow power vs 1.5 secs of immortality? I found that I use shadow power : gloom when I use a non-lifesteal weapon, because I must have it vs reflect mobs unless I want to let my sentries kill them all on their own, which takes longer... With Windforce I used the IWIN button instead, because there was no need to facetank stuff, rather get out/away from jailor, bad situations, etc. Well, you see my skills... I switch out Prep for traps if I use a uberfat Manticore, which I aim to do when a good one shows up on the AH (I will have 2.6 aps with a manticore which is still fast, so it works, love it's high min dmg and lets me use trap play again which is rather weak with bow/1h xbow)
FIRE ZI MISSLES!
Thanks for the writings. I like to read detailed stuff like this.
So you actually think the 6-s rune is a "hidden gem"?
I thought the Rocket rune was better because you get 30% rocket (15% from each?) and two sentries make it 60% damage. What I don't know is if the rockets come out once every second or it depends on the attack speed. I think it comes out once every second?
Now, Steady Aim can improve Sentry's damage if I stand far away right?
Yeah, I am still trying to find the best Tactics combo... I know I want Archery and Perfectionist. The last one is debatable.
My Primary skill choice so far is Mark because I like how it increases my damage against elite. For trash, I don't use it.
PS: I can't view your profile for some reasons?
Edited by Jibikao#1131 on 4/1/2013 3:02 PM PDT
One other question, does Sentry benefit from +Elite damage like SOJ?
I am addicted to SOJ for some reasons. lol Really want a dedicated build and that's why I chose Chakram. I know the +elemental damage benefits weapons with black damage more which in returns should help Sentry's damage.
Edited by Jibikao#1131 on 4/1/2013 3:05 PM PDT
Sentry benefits from SOJ and such yeah!
I wouldn't really go for Perfectionist... even with your high HP, you don't have very high allres so it's totally not worth it compared to what you're missing out on! 20% free dmg from Steady Aim is too good!
My idea on a sentry build is simple: Sentry is the key skill and thus needs a 6 second cooldown, both for optimal damage, but also frequent placing. Spitfire rune does same/less damage because of its longer cooldown and a normal sentry player will use the passive: Custom Engineering which allows 3 sentries to be present, meaning you can get all 3 up much faster vs bosspacks. Especially if you spot a pack with a naaasty mod or you start to build up to fight say Skeleton king. You place all 3 sentries a bit out of range, then engage and let the boss/mobs walk into the shooting lane :p
Imo, the 2 ever present passives as a sentry player usinga bow are Archery and Steady aim. That's a free 35% dmg increase to you and sentry. Custom engineering is a 99% must because 3 sentries... own 2 sentries. :p with or without using traps in your build!
Also using a hatred builder for control is suggested, if not damage. Bola shot for constant stun on bosses is great, with 3+ aps you'll have 100% stunlock. Entangling shot for constant aoe snare is also great for kiting reasons. If you really wish to go without any Hatred building attack, I suggest you replace Night Stalker with Vengeance instead, lets you spam more chakram/sentry or whatever, if you have at least one "pickup" item. Health globes are all over the place :p getting discipline and hatred from them is awsome for quick farming! I use it over Archery because I don't benefit much from the 50% chd damage, using a 2h crossbow now....
My profile is on Europe, so when you click my profile, choose different region!
I don't suggest going 2h xbow as a sentry player with less than 100% ias from gear. I sit at 2.59 aps atm, which is slow in a Sentryminded world, but it's average damage is so good and it lets me focus on more dex and less avg dmg on jewelery. (1 dex adds more dps than 1 avg dmg as of now, thanks to my high dmg weapon)
Yes, it is 1889 dps. :D
I changed out Nightstalker for Custom Engineering last night and I think my overall damage is much higher. Yes, the 6-s rune is fun. I can place it sooner and during elite fights where I need to run backward quite a bit, the faster placing and 3 sentries are indeed quite nice.
One question about Steady Aim. Do I give Sentry 20% extra damage even if I stand closer to the monsters?
I like Perfectionist because I like survival. The less need for me to move, the more damage I deal in the long run. If you can view my DH, you'll notice that my stuff SUCKS hard. I only start fooling around with this build. I am primarily a WD player and I am very poor now after buying that Windforce. :(
The goal of my build is actually Chakram with two -5 cost. This stays. :D Yes, I do love Bola and Bola is indeed so good but I pretty much set on a build that I am going to stick with. I like being a bit different.
I don't see too many Throwing Star + Sentry builds out there. I've changed Mark to the rune on the ground and it is indeed MUCH BETTER than spreading out.
Hi Merlin, SOJ's +cold damage only turns your 'weapon damage" to cold. Sentry does its own physical damage and Physical is actually an "element". Only certain runes that specifically say "do weapon damage" can benefit from +cold damage SOJ.
And no, Aid Station and Guardian do not stack I believe. None of the buffs really stack in this game as far as I can tell.
Edited by Jibikao#1131 on 4/2/2013 2:29 PM PDT
Sentries cannot proc anything, including cold dmg affixes on weapon/items, sorry guys. :p Otherwise a speedbuild with blind/stun on various slots would be beyond godlike! Not that bola shot with the stun rune is different at 3.8 aps... :D
No Trevor, sorry. Neither of the "buffing" sentries stack. Not even from 2 separate DH's in a multi game! You can have 1 using guardian shield and 1 using life regen, but not 2x of same. Bummer hu? it'd be too op to have 4 DH's all using 3 sentries each for dmg reduction, imagine that :p Team immortal!
Steady aim: The way this skill works is simple: You get 20% increased dps by not being in melee range with anything. This dmg instantly applies to your sentry as well, regardless of what your dps was when you deployed it. (Sentries follow strict pet rules regarding all things except critical strike, wich pets inherit, albeit not critical hit dmg. More pet info is to be found in witch doctor forums :p )
Trust me, steady aim is better than it seems. Use it and make a normal act 1 game, walk slowly towards a mob and then realize how bloody short 10 yards is. It's SHORT! Basically melee range. Meaning, unless you fight a Teleporter affix mob, you WILL have those 20% dps added, always. :p (Here is why I recommended using entangling shot, the dmg isn't bad and chain slowing 4 targets is superb not only for the slow, but maintaining steady aim! See how all skills work in perfect harmony in my build? :D )
My point on your survival skill was that it's useless because let's face it: 10% isn't much at all, and while it does grant you 10% to all useful things, you only have 200 allres. Barely. Going from 42 to 48k hp is... not great, unless you have 800+ allres, then those extra hitpoints really matter. WIth that low allres, having 30 or 40k makes almost no difference, it's still low ^^ Either you get much more allres in order to make that talent worth it, or you just go dmg.
20% dmg for free (steady aim) is the best dmg skill you have. Second is archery, granting 15 for you. Third is the utility passive! Custom engineering is sweet, albeit only if you really use 3 sentries during any one encounter. But then there's vengeance. Nightstalker won't work well with a sentry build because you won't have much crit, almost none in fact! Especially on a tight budget. So basically Nightstalker becomes useless! (Because it's not 1 discipline PER crit, it's a % chance on a crit, making it almost null at 10-20% critrate.) Vengeance however is guaranteed hatred and discipline from any health globe, which is really nice!
But hey, your character, your game! Play it as you wish ;) A sentry build relies on dmg while doing "other stuff" as a DH, meaning running around picking up goldpiles etc. Vit and allres isn't very important at all... As long as you can survive 1 hit from all foes, that's enough to react and run :D Or Shadow Power and facetank. Which works fine with crazy attackspeed!
Thanks for the input.
I have tried Steady Aim before and I don't like it as much. Mainly because I don't like to always kite backward. Sometimes I just like to stand still and let Razor Disk circle me like a PbAoE attack. I can see how Entangling and Steady + Sentry can work really well.
You are right that Perfectionist may not be worth that much with my current equipment but it's also 10% less discipline cost. I may switch around tonight to compare but I am pretty happy with Perfectionist for now.
IE: Pets do benefit from your Critical Damage but not directly. WD's pets always critical 50% more damage but they scale with your paper DPS and your DPS increases with more Attack Speed and CC/CD. The only thing pets don't get are +elite damage, -elite damage, melee/range damage properties and blocking. Pets do get Dodge.
Edited by Jibikao#1131 on 4/2/2013 2:42 PM PDT
Yeah I never mentioned pets critical strike, just that they do NOT recieve critical hit damage. Our pets also benefit from our crit :p Alas, weak crits, but still! Yeah there's a bunch of stuff going on with pets regarding what they get and don't get, I am originally a WD myself hehe, in hindseight there is more than 1 difference between sentries and pets obviously because sentries are... "more" a part of you in some ways, because of the elite dmg bonus for example, while real pets aren't.
One thing I am not sure of is the wolfs damage, exactly how it's calculated. At first glance it almost seemd normalized at a fixed speed. Will explain why I think so:
When I run around with almost 4 APS, the wolf does not get even remotely close to that attackrate. But it hits STUPIDLY hard. For example, when my sentries hit for an average of 120k per shot, the wolf hit for more. Up to 190k (noncrit wtf?) So that made me think, how does that add up???
well, sentries scale with speed and have 175% of "raw" dps. (not counting elemental % affixes and crit/chd inflation). The wolf on the other hand, has 90-something % weapon dmg per hit, which is close to half of the sentry, but attacks much slower. Could that mean that something went goofy with its damage calculation at very high aps? because it's a pet, based on the dps on screen, whilst trying to pack that dps into say... 1.00 second attackspeed? Don't know man, just know that it hits VERY hard. It suprised me :p
Gargantuan has a higher weapon dmg % as a skill, and my WD had much higher sheet dps, yet my 147k dps DH's wolf hit harder. (WD was at 230k dps, yet the garg hit for way less, i'm counting Cleave rune here because it's the one granting high base dmg, his regular hits are too low to compare)
Odd hu? Try it out and try to figure it out, i'm clueless on that one as of yet. :D
Mmmm, I've tried Wolf and wasn't impressed but mainly because my survival sucks so his survival sucks too. Never understand why they put a recharge in Companion.
One thing I just found out recently is that you can have two Ferrets? My friend told me you get two Ferrets and both of them attack? I thought there was only one? I didn't even know they attack! lol
Never tried Ferret. I may take out battle scar out for Companion tonight for a while.
To be honest, I've never tested WD's pets with +elite damage. I use SOJ but Dog's damage is way too low to tell the difference. Can you tell?
Edited by Jibikao#1131 on 4/2/2013 3:25 PM PDT
You can easily tell with a gargantuan because he hits hard, easiest to try with cleave. But then again, I never tried it either as a WD, only as a DH, and sentries don't always obey Pet Rules. We are DH's after all! I don't care for the complicated WD mechanics anymore ;)
Yeah Ferrets go in pairs but there is a rather fundamental flaw with them, lol. They are 2, that is true (rhymin' like a rappah!) but they both go for the same goldpile! Hahaha, useless, inni't? Also the 10% more gold dropped is just.... facepalm. Makes no difference on any MP level with 5 stacks, 280% or 290%, who cares? :D
Also their AI is beyond horrible, they sometimes fight as a pet or just abandon the target and run off to pick up gold. I will also let you know they react SLOWLY to gold drops :D You're sitting by the screen going "Go boy! GET THAT GOLD! boy...? Stupid rats." Haha!
I'd drop yer survival passive and get the Boar pet, he lives alot longer than the wolf, still does dmg but gives you survival stuff for free. That way you can have Steady aim, which you do not dislike at all, it's just a mindtrick cast onto yourself by yourself in a paralell universe. :D More dmg gained, same resistances kept! Yeah disciplin cost is unchanged but really.... :p
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