Diablo® III

4 piece Nats set bonus

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Anyone else think the bonus is bit underwhelming, there is not enough incentive to complete the set. Max discipline is not an attractive enough stat/reason to complete the set especially since Nightstalker is so good. If it gave a bonus to overall resource regeneration a la empowered shrine it would be a much more attractive and powerful bonus.
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.....

I think every class but barbs wants a empowered shrine bonus on set... it doubles your resource reg and half your cooldown.

anyways your are joking right!? you don't like to have more disc on your hunter? or you just want more hatred regeneration... The best they will give you is 1.33 on a 4 pc set bonus, or maybe 0.33 just like inna's bonus... +20 disc is nice to have but its never a mandatory choice, as no full set bonus is mandatory, most people just use 2pc from most set.
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they can buff the 4set to something like +20disc and +5cc, and ppl would be all over it.
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I think every class but barbs wants a empowered shrine bonus on set... it doubles your resource reg and half your cooldown.

anyways your are joking right!? you don't like to have more disc on your hunter? or you just want more hatred regeneration... The best they will give you is 1.33 on a 4 pc set bonus, or maybe 0.33 just like inna's bonus... +20 disc is nice to have but its never a mandatory choice, as no full set bonus is mandatory, most people just use 2pc from most set.

No I'd like more discipline don't get me wrong, but max discipline does not improve my actual in game performance by that much (if at all) and so there is little incentive in completing the set. If they made it so completing the set you gave up dps in favor for improved resource regeneration, it would certainly be more attractive. but maybe I'm complaining over a non issue. I just remembered reading somewhere that Blizzard might change set bonuses in the future itemization patch and thought I should write my thoughts on the issue.
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I find generating hatred with Punishment is the best way, you use 25 disc for 125, combine with Vengeance and Suppression Fire to reload very quickly.

You can regen disc with night stalker, so it depends on your play style.
I had a build with 60 disc +20 disc (set), total of 80 to rapid fire cluster arrows. Its quiet fun to play with.

If you would change this bonus I hope they give us +30 instead of +20, which is double of your normal disc. Legacy give you 30+90=120 in 30 sec, the new one only give you 50+30=80 in 30 sec, not at all the same but you get much higher dps with the new set as they give higher rolls, the gear is at lv63 and legacy is lv61.
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I was all over it for PvP, but then i decided to just keep the legacy set.

Though personally I feel that the set bonus is fine, and if i did drop legacy I would be completing the 4p bonus.

Disc is already valued quite a bit. Just days ago I sold my 10 disc Legacy Cloak for $60 on RMAH, which is like 600m+ in today's gold econ. And that's 99.9% chance to someone that already has bonus regen from Legacy.

Once a working PvP system comes out, or more challenging content comes out, the value of disc will be much easier to see. It's simply hard to see the value of disc now because the content is so easy that we just blow disc offensively.
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Actually Discipline enables you to spam gloom more, you can stay in battle longer without having to move around meaning you actually deal more damage standing and shooting.

Discipline is very critical to me.
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I was all over it for PvP, but then i decided to just keep the legacy set.

Though personally I feel that the set bonus is fine, and if i did drop legacy I would be completing the 4p bonus.

Disc is already valued quite a bit. Just days ago I sold my 10 disc Legacy Cloak for $60 on RMAH, which is like 600m+ in today's gold econ. And that's 99.9% chance to someone that already has bonus regen from Legacy.

Once a working PvP system comes out, or more challenging content comes out, the value of disc will be much easier to see. It's simply hard to see the value of disc now because the content is so easy that we just blow disc offensively.

My point exactly, the PVE content is so easy that max discipline is pointless imo, I regenerate enough discipline to permagloom and i don't even use prep, and I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one in this situation. I just feel that +20 max disc on it's own is not a good enough full set bonus, maybe we'll see how good disc is when the real pvp is released not the mess that brawling is.
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My point exactly, the PVE content is so easy that max discipline is pointless imo, I regenerate enough discipline to permagloom and i don't even use prep, and I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one in this situation. I just feel that +20 max disc on it's own is not a good enough full set bonus, maybe we'll see how good disc is when the real pvp is released not the mess that brawling is.


I think they will likely tone down the reliance on discipline on PVP, if they ever decide to fix it. They have been trying to migrate from the over reliance on discipline, hence the new set and increasing the duration of gloom. I feel that the trend will continue towards PVP, all they have to do is just to tweak Smoke Screen a little. That said for PVP, more discipline will always be good, but will the sacrifice in DPS / eHP be worthwhile when you can just get the max Disc from the New Set or go with 2 piece innas for the ultimate mitigation.
Edited by Killua#1993 on 4/2/2013 6:46 AM PDT
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Remember when Nats just helped you regenerate disc faster? Or am i confusing this with another set.
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04/02/2013 06:48 AMPosted by Namzug
Remember when Nats just helped you regenerate disc faster? Or am i confusing this with another set.


Remember when the regeneration from the set bonus doesn't feel enough.
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When they buffed legendaries and sets the natalyas set was given a huge nerf. A DH effective DPS is greatly increased with disc regen.

I agree. +20 discipline is underwhelming. You will get peanuts of the gallery that will defend the set, for some reason. They are pretty much forced into using every passive an skill that procs disc regen, at the cost of dps of course.

The bow on the set is still a legacy bow as well. DH can duel weild...but less then 1000th of a percent of hand crossbows are usefull. So its either manticore or calamity and a dml.

+1 on natalyas set being busted.

04/02/2013 12:00 AMPosted by BurningJC007
Anyone else think the bonus is bit underwhelming, there is not enough incentive to complete the set. Max discipline is not an attractive enough stat/reason to complete the set especially since Nightstalker is so good. If it gave a bonus to overall resource regeneration a la empowered shrine it would be a much more attractive and powerful bonus.
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The legacy set bonus and the current set bonus are just not even comparable. Bring back discapline regen, so we are not forced into a stupid passive like nightstalker. Anyone wanna guess what the actual chance is that it procs? Id love to know. I used it for a long time, and finally I gave up on it. Its somewhere in the 1 to 2 % range. Your lucky to get it once a minute...worthless.

Id rather the set bonus do 1 disc regen a sec, and 50% immune to control impairing effects. Vortex is by far the most punishing to DHs. Unlike a barb, gaining damage when in mele, a dh is better off dpsing at a distance. and control impairing effects trample it.

You could even have 1 item decide which bonus the set gets, like the ring, so the final bonus has some variation...[gloom costs 30% less and lasts 30% longer]

just saying. final bonus is bogus on this set. Once you run out of juice, your dead!

I find generating hatred with Punishment is the best way, you use 25 disc for 125, combine with Vengeance and Suppression Fire to reload very quickly.

You can regen disc with night stalker, so it depends on your play style.
I had a build with 60 disc +20 disc (set), total of 80 to rapid fire cluster arrows. Its quiet fun to play with.

If you would change this bonus I hope they give us +30 instead of +20, which is double of your normal disc. Legacy give you 30+90=120 in 30 sec, the new one only give you 50+30=80 in 30 sec, not at all the same but you get much higher dps with the new set as they give higher rolls, the gear is at lv63 and legacy is lv61.
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I dunno I personally NEED that extra 20 discipline. Can stay alive much longer when you can spam your defensive skills more.

The only way I could get rid of it is if I got +10 max discipline somewhere else like say from an upgraded chest piece. Maybe I will do that one day but until I can afford a good one like that I need all 4.
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I would prefer if they changed it to +10 Max Discipline and +1 Discipline per Second.
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I ran with 4 pc Nat's for s long time; I just switched to an Andy's helm for the DPS. I think the set bonus is great, and I really liked my Sight, I miss that fear :( , but you necessarily have to sacrifice some DPS for the utility of the full set.

Once again, I think the bonus 20 disc is great, especially for low MP speed runs and PvP, and that the trade off is worth it in some cases.
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Here is some more food for thought:

Q: How much max discipline equates to the +2 discipline per second legacy bonus?

A: Using preparation as the only method to restore discipline, to equate the sets define:

Legacy max discipline = X
Non-legacy max discipline = X + Y (the Y is the bonus from non-legacy set)

In general, preparation restores X (for legacy) or X + Y (for non-legacy) every 45 seconds. In those 45 seconds, a legacy DH restored 135 discipline, and a non-legacy DH restored 45 discipline. Thus,

X + 135 = X + Y + 45
Y = 90

meaning, the non-legacy set must provide NINETY discipline to equate to the legacy set's bonus with the preparation. Kinda makes the +20 bonus seem weak lol!
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but non legacy set has more stats. and come on, other sets are weaksauce as well.
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@Kush

Nightstalker's Proc Co-efficeint is directly related to the skill used.
Bola Shoot - Thunder Ball's Proc Co-ef is: 0.5 or 50%
Strafe - Stinging Steel's is : 0.25 or 25%

So at 54% Crit Chance, your proc rate of Nightstalker is looking to be ~14% with Strafe and ~25% with Thunder Ball for every enemy hit. So I'd agree NS is some what useless with strafe but could be quite potent with Thunder Ball and more Crit Chance.

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7004036888?page=6#106 (Page One has his google doc file documenting all Proc Co-efficient)

My ratio of;
APS : Crit Chance : Nightstalker Proc : Hatred Regen : channelling costs
when using Rapid Fire allows me to constantly obtain enough Discipline to cycle my Hatred for Discipline and vice versa. With out Nightstalker my build would be impossible because I don't use a Hatred Generator. So I wouldn't say Nightstalker is useless, just has to be used right and for specific situations.

Overall I will agree that the final bonus is somewhat underwhelming but I don't think it's useless. I actually prefer full New Nat's over Legacy Nat's with out a doubt, Legacy just can't roll good enough stats to compensate for the lack of DPS related to max: dext/cc/cd/avg dmg rolls possible on the Legacy gear.

I do like your Idea about different pieces having different bonuses, but just curious how that would work? what if your items look like this:
Helm - (4) Set Pieces = 2 discipline/sec
Ring - (4) Set Pieces = 20 more Discipline
Chest - (4) Set Pieces = 50% reduced resource cost for gloom
Boots - (4) Set Pieces = 50% CC reduction

Would you not get a bonus? Would it depend on which item was last equipped for which bonus you get? (I don't mind this idea; but could be tedious making sure you put the "right" item on last) Not trying to be rude just curious if you've thought more about it, cause it's a cool idea, I just think its hard to implement.
Edited by TastySouP#1157 on 4/5/2013 5:37 PM PDT
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Almost a sexy medium. 50% less controlling impaired effects too. Why? Position is everything for a ranged attacker.

04/02/2013 10:19 AMPosted by Iria
I would prefer if they changed it to +10 Max Discipline and +1 Discipline per Second.
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