Diablo® III

Rare Wands' Max AP Fixed Roll Should Be Removed

Working with the Development Team that we have. Trying to get things fixed. ;)
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I would love to get an answer about this or more formal discussion from the CMs.

Was thinking about this more the other day, and possibly one of the reasons its like this for wizards is because they weren't meant to be a DPS based class. They deal mainly with ranged and crowd control skills. It seems like forcing players to decide on LS or damage was a design choice from the start. Hopefully they will provide some insight though, because I am rather curious.
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I've added a request on the first post for all readers that support the removal of the fixed +Max AP roll consumption on ilvl 63 property wands to please "Like" the first post. Maybe that will help expedite this problem being fixed? It can't hurt, right?

@semiXform: Thanks. I do too.
In Re: Hypothesis as to Motives for the fixed item roll:
Forcing a class to be a "support"/"crowd control" class has never comported with Diablo philosophy. Making support and/or crowd control builds has certainly been possible, but forcing a class into that role by design just makes for an imbalanced and bad game. Maybe that was the "Jay Way"? Who knows... It needs to be fixed.
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In Re: Hypothesis as to Motives for the fixed item roll:
Forcing a class to be a "support"/"crowd control" class has never comported with Diablo philosophy. Making support and/or crowd control builds has certainly been possible, but forcing a class into that role by design just makes for an imbalanced and bad game. Maybe that was the "Jay Way"? Who knows... It needs to be fixed.

I bet no one would like to be "support/control" in a mostly solo game. You wanna be able to kill thousands of enemies while surviving and feeling almost OP. \m/,
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Wow, excellent post, OP. I've been looking for a wand with CD, OS, LS, APoC for a few weeks now. I was wondering why it seemed that every wand on the AH had max AP. It's because every wand on the AH does have max AP, haha. Now I understand why the wands have such bad damage when putting CD, OS, LS, APoC in the search fields. Because there is no room left for %dmg!

The fixed max AP makes it impossible to get a godly APoC wand. Let me explain why. Well, what makes up a godly 1H?

1. +min/max elemental or black damage - every rare weapon you have equipped and ever will equip has this affix, without it, you'll have a 230 DPS weapon.

2. +crit damage - the poor man's socket. Wiz and WD can only get up to 510 points of crit damage using 1H weapons, 100 of those come from this affix, essential to any godly 1H.

3. socket - the rich man's socket, the ol' gem holder, it's mandatory for obvious reasons.

4. life steal - at end game levels of high DPS, this is the best way to heal yourself. Some classes get it for free on belts and passives, others NEED it on their main hand unless they have some way to spam skills with good LoH return (CM wiz) and even for them, at end game levels, LS still beats it. Permagloom DH doesn't need it, Wiz does.

5. +% damage - this is the affix that takes those well rolled 1000 DPS weapons and sends them into the stratosphere of 1200 DPS. It also takes a bad 800 DPS weapon up to a playable DPS.

6. your choice, could be any of the following depending on item type:
Attack speed - lots of builds love this mod. It makes you attack faster.
Mainstat - moar damage
Mainstat/offstat combo - a little less damage but still moar damage, plus you get a little dodge, res all, armor, or HP along with it.
Vit - you'd rather get this elsewhere but 200 vit is 7000 HP before compounded by % life items, so for many characters, this amount to over 10k HP.
Life on hit - not ideal but I wouldn't kick it out of bed either, gives you life when you hit something. Good stat to have for very tanky players.
Life on kill - If you are doing massive DPS, you are killing many things very quickly. If this number is very large, it's like every enemy drops a mini health globe and it can be a replacement for passive life regen. Not helpful against single elites or bosses but it is an underrated stat, if it's huge like, 1500+.
Max discipline - increases DH's survivability resource, decent stat for them.
Hatred regen - This gives DHs more uptime for their harder-hitting hatred spenders.
Max mana - a little bit of burst DPS for WDs.
Mana regen - Most WD builds need at least a piece or two with this stat for sustained DPS, which is why 4 piece zuni is so popular.
Max fury - again, not the best stat but it does make it a little easier to increase wotb timer. Would you vendor a 1100 DPS CD/OS/LS/maxfury mighty weapon? Didn't think so.
Spirit regen - IAS would give more spirit than this for dual wielding monks I think but from my limited understanding of monks, you would certainly rather have this than nothing.
Life/spirit spent - kind of like life on hit that only works with spirit spenders. Yes, you would probably rather have dex or IAS but it's better than nothing.
Bonus vs. elites - Give you a DPS increase vs elites, solid stat.
Skill bonuses - Increases damage of skill X, increases critical hit chance of skill Y, etc. Improves one skill in your arsenal. Not available to all classes (sorry guys :'( I wish it was.)
AP on crit - The single best way for wizards to gain arcane power and sustain DPS.
Max AP - Gives wiz a tiny amount of burst DPS. Not great but better than nothing. But it is the only one, out of ALL these options, that can roll on the prototypical godly wand.

That's right, if a wand has CD, LS, OS, and both damage affixes, it cannot have int, it cannot have vit, it cannot have APoC, it cannot even have magic missile damage because that slot is always occupied by max AP.

I believe this is what the OP is asking Blizz to do:

Remove max AP as a fixed roll from rare wands and throw it into the pool with all the other possible affixes.

He's absolutely right, they should do this.
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@ChangBooster: Thanks for the support! Your understanding is exactly the "Main Argument" here (except, of course, I don't want other classes' skill and resource affixes to be able to roll on Wands). ;)
I cleaned up the top of the original post so that the message is more clear.

Please remember to hit "Like" on the first post! It can't hurt, right?
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I didn't realize that +Mana Regeneration was a fixed roll on ilvl 63 property Rare Ceremonial Knives until about an hour ago. I immediately rechecked every other Class Specific Weapon and confirmed that none of the others have fixed rolls.
Regardless, +Mana Regeneration is to APoC as +Max Mana is to +Max AP. I'd certainly prefer to have APoC as a fixed roll than +Max AP. I edited the original post to reflect this information.
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Mana regen is not nearly as good as APoC, and doesn't make up for the higher attack speed of the weapon as I already mentioned before. Yes, you can build around it, yes, it's manageable, in the exact same way that wizards don't need APoC on their weapon, there are lots of ways to build around it, and the other two slots are enough for many builds anyway.

As for the rest, no, you can't compare hand crossbows to calamity, because that's not the weapon people use, they use manticore, because it's simply too good for anything else to beat ever. Manticore + DML beats dual hand xbows, and unfortunately 1 hand xbow + DML beats dual wielding too. Dual wielding just doesn't really work for DHs.

As for daibos, I just searched the AH with only two affixes listed, 150% CD and a socket, with absolutely no gold cap. The highest available daibo with only those two specified is 1338 DPS, whereas the highest skorn was 1600+, had more dex, and was cheaper. Whether or not it's POSSIBLE to get a decent daibo is a reasonable question, and I really don't think that it is, but the fact of the matter is, possible or not, no one has, or no one is selling them. Going to page 46 of the AH, (the last page displayed) all the skorns are still higher damage than the highest daibo (which had a bid of 999,999,999 with no buyout).

As for mighty weapons, well heck, barbs don't need/care about their unique weapons because their unique weapons don't have any unique affixes worth having. Still, it would be nice to be able to use my class specific weapons on anyone other than my monk.

Again, there's no reason to intentionally gimp a classes unique weapons, so I approve of this fix, but they're not the only ones that need a fix.
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@Guybrush: I think you should try running some test items on a character builder like d3up.com. I already made most of them for you, just hit the "copy" button. Edit them as necessary and plug them into your character against each other. For the Hand-Crossbows, remove the Life Steal affix (Calamity and Manticore don't have it anyway) and add 200 Dexterity.
I also already discussed problems with rares - not many people are picking them up and they are weighted too heavily on crappy stats. Blizzard is already preparing to change this in the Itemization patch (whenever that will be).
Edited by Mike#1867 on 4/3/2013 6:10 PM PDT
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@Guybrush: If you think a change needs to be made to Ceremonial Knives, you should argue it in a post that you make. This post is focused on Wands and the fixed +Max AP roll.
Edited by Mike#1867 on 4/4/2013 8:12 AM PDT
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04/03/2013 02:25 PMPosted by Mike
I don't want other classes' skill and resource affixes to be able to roll on Wands


didn't say that, was comparing all the possibilities of rolls on 1H, all class specifics included
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@ChangBooster: Yeah, I was pretty sure you didn't mean it that way. :)
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While I agree that the wand's current max AP roll sucks, I strongly disagree about it being "removed" in favour of allowing wands to roll "the" 6 desired stats (ls, socket, crit damage blah blah).

If anything, we should be moving AWAY from having hte same 6 desired stats for every weapon.

So I'm actually advocating a buff to the max AP. Instead of a meaningly small fixed amount, make it a percentage with equivalent rolls to critical damage. e.g. An ilvl62 wand can roll up to 65% max AP. An ilvl63 2-handed staff should be allowed to roll max AP too, but could roll up to 200%.

Sure, for the typical wand+source CM/WW wiz, wouldn't care about 65% max AP enough to take it over a socket. Archon wiz probably wouldnt care either, unless they play some kind of hybrid.

But it would certainly open up new builds - a heavy burst damage type character might seriously consider giving up the paper DPS if they can drop a couple extra meteors in their burst, for example. Power hungry might also become more useful as a result.
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@Delfius: I can see where you are going with that (it could be interesting to drastically increase the potency of Max AP). Ultimately, that is an argument that should coexist with this argument (they are not mutually exclusive). Removing the fixed roll is the best way to allow wands to be able to roll whatever individual wizards may want them to be for different skill builds. The improved (+% Max AP) roll could still roll on wands, it just wouldn't be on ALL wands.

Let me think about it for a while and see if I can come up with percentages that would be just strong enough to make me want to build with them, but not so strong that they are mandatory or over powered.
Edited by Mike#1867 on 4/4/2013 10:06 AM PDT
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I'll keep thinking about the +%Max AP (or a higher hard number that would make me actually want to use it for resource management).
For now, I'd like to see some more comments and/or support regarding the removal of it as a fixed mod on ilvl 63 property wands. Please remember to "Like" the first post if you support the removal of the fixed +Max AP roll on ilvl 63 property wands!
Edited by Mike#1867 on 4/4/2013 4:04 PM PDT
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After giving the +% Max AP (and a higher hard number) a few hours to think about. I'd probably want these rolls to be around 25% as a percentage option or 25-30 as a range of hard numbers to roll. The resultant amount of Arcane Power from stacking 2-3 of each of these mods seems like an amount appropriate for a damage spike build that recharges with Living Lightning (or other signature spell) and Prodigy.

Please remember to "Like" the first post if you support the removal of the fixed +Max AP roll on ilvl 63 property wands!
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@Guybrush: If you think a change needs to be made to Ceremonial Knives, you should argue it in a post that you make. This post is focused on Wands and the fixed +Max AP roll.


I just read the discussion between you two on the topic of Ceremonial knives and it actually made me a lot more interested in your wand topic than I was before. Highlighting pros and cons of similar and related topics to the topic on hand in this thread was helpful, in this case. Just a heads up and a free bump I guess. Push on!
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