Diablo® III

[VIDEO] MP 10 Trash farming build - CS +EP

Heya!

Been testing with some builds again and stumbled upon a really fun trash farming build for high MP and decided to share it with you all trough a video.

It's not the easiest build to play, but maybe because of this I do find it extremely fun to play. Its very high paced and very efficient when you learn it and have the gear for it.

I have yet to do very extensive testing with it, but in the video I'm getting ~70 white mob kills per minute, which is pretty much the average of what little testing I have done so far.

The clip:

http://youtu.be/GUBsHQlKfws

The build:

http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/monk#aVkcSf!bcd!YZaZYZ

Possible variations:

Drop Chant of Resonance for STI or OWE

Drop Sweeping Wind and Chant of Resonance for Blazing Wrath and Guiding Light (My favorite build for co-op atm)

Drop Fist of Thunder for something awesome (I plan to test this further as I learn to use the EP + CS combo better. So far I'm not yet comfortable enough with the build without a spirit generator.)
Edited by Armeleon#2661 on 4/2/2013 2:49 PM PDT
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- Diablo III (Monk)
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Hello there Armeleon!

1.
YOU HAVE A LOT OF ELITE KILLS SIR!!!

2.
This is my favorite build as of right now as well!
I actually prefer Backlash if you are skipping elites though. It does roughly the same amount of damage as the increase from Overawe on EP's explosion and it makes you invincible! :D

04/02/2013 01:26 PMPosted by Armeleon
Drop Fist of Thunder for something awesome (I plan to test this further as I learn to use the EP + CS combo better. So far I'm not yet comfortable enough with the build without a spirit generator.)

I HIGHLY recommend checking out CW:Rising Tide.

I prefer FoT:Q for all my Bells builds, but CW:RT is simply amazing when combine with CS!

I have also found I have basically zero need for CoR as >70% of my spirit comes from Rising Tide and Strong Spirit as opposed to spir/sec gear.

Along those lines, I have taken to using SW:C instead of SW:Inner.

I like NDE (allows you to EP reflects packs) and STI (dying sucks).

If you ever have any interest, I stream Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday each week and I almost exclusively use a TR-CS-EP build in both solo and group play. I would be more than happy to compare notes on the subject! :D

3.
Your stated # of mobs killed - 70 per minute - comes out to 4,200 an hour.

This is INSANELY high. Might I inquire as to which zone you are farming and seeing these numbers?

I can hit 3.3k in CotA with elite kills and probably a tad more than that in KD2... but I don't see how I am going to squeeze out an additional ~30%!

We actually have remarkably similar gear (I am jelly as heck of you boots and rings!) so I don't think that is the cause! :D

4.
Okay, after watching your vid I understand why you would want inner storm. You are going for a much less auto-attack based setup than I have moved to.

I will give it a try tonight on stream!

Anyways, enough talking ... thanks for sharing! <3

-Druin, the happy monk

Edit ... asked for video when title of thread is [VIDEO] ... feelstupid.jpg

Edit2: watched video .. work internet is slooooow!
Edited by Druin#1518 on 4/2/2013 1:52 PM PDT
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I HIGHLY recommend checking out CW:Rising Tide.

I prefer FoT:Q for all my Bells builds, but CW:RT is simply amazing when combine with CS!


As you said yourself, I do my best not to have to use autoattack at all. I only use it when I find my self out of spirit and this often happen with just a couple of mobs around. In my experience FoT/Quickening fills my spirit quicker unless I have loads of mobs around.

I have tried it, and sometimes do use it for CotA.

04/02/2013 01:39 PMPosted by Druin
This is INSANELY high. Might I inquire as to which zone you are farming and seeing these numbers?


Exactly what I'm doing in the video. I show you my lifetime kills in the beginning and at the end so for this very small sample anyone can check the math. Obviously this is in no way proof that this can be sustained over longer periods. I'v yet to try this my self so would be foolish to make such claims.

I only calculated results from doing this a couple of times over a set of 2-3 runs and one longer 7 run set. Results have been between 65 and 72 Life time kills per minute every time but anyone who has recorded farming efficiency over time knows this is ofc way too small a sample to conclude anything.

We actually have remarkably similar gear (I am jelly as heck of you boots and rings!) so I don't think that is the cause! :D


Eh, sarcasm ? Seems to me like I have 45k more HP, allowing me to play builds like the one in the video :P

If you ever have any interest, I stream Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday each week and I almost exclusively use a TR-CS-EP build in both solo and group play. I would be more than happy to compare notes on the subject! :D


Will check out your stream but timezone might be a bit of an issue since I play from +2 GMT :)
Edited by Armeleon#2661 on 4/2/2013 3:28 PM PDT
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This playstyle is really fun! I also feel that CW rising tide synergizes much better w/ the build due to the time in which mobs spend in proximity to your hitbox lines up perfect. I play around w/ passives a touch but I find that I go heavier to the side of full on regen passives for a skorn build and less regen when using my beefy eHP sword and board gear. yes running cheat death (NDE) allows for more offensive play and the removal of serenity. WOL pillars compliments this playstye well too.
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Exactly what I'm doing in the video. I show you my lifetime kills in the beginning and at the end so for this very small sample anyone can check the math. Obviously this is in no way proof that this can be sustained over longer periods. I'v yet to try this my self so would be foolish to make such claims.

I only calculated results from doing this a couple of times over a set of 2-3 runs and one longer 7 run set. Results have been between 65 and 72 Life time kills per minute every time but anyone who has recorded farming efficiency over time knows this is ofc way too small a sample to conclude anything.

Sounds good.

I will check it out when I have a chance!

04/02/2013 02:35 PMPosted by Armeleon
Eh, sarcasm ? Seems to me like I have 45k more HP, allowing me to play builds like the one in the video :P

Have random gear on atm.

Your gear is strictly better than mine but I have >1m eHP (Dprog so over inflated) in normal gear and you have 1.2m. I have ~180k dps, you have 210k.

Very similar and not the kind of difference that would make up for 30% farming efficiency.

I have zero issues with KD2.

As an aside, have you happened to keep track of your total # of mobs killed per legendary in KD2?

I am working on figuring out if the overall drop chance in KD2 is the same as the overall drop chance in CotA.

I have a sneaking suspicion, based on personal tests and information from other people, that the drop chance is actually higher in CotA but I need a lot more data for KD2 before I make any conclusions.
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04/02/2013 03:47 PMPosted by Druin
Have random gear on atm.


I see, then I'm just jumping to conclusions to fast here.

04/02/2013 03:47 PMPosted by Druin
I have a sneaking suspicion, based on personal tests and information from other people, that the drop chance is actually higher in CotA but I need a lot more data for KD2 before I make any conclusions.


Have never done this. Sounds like a valuable effort, I can definitely join in next time I farm KD2 or CotA. I see one problem though: Like most people, I kill the elite in CotA and with a screen full of Exploding Palms going off I find it unlikely that it's possible to determine whether a legendary dropped from the elite or the white mobs. I would imagine that any (possible) differences between the drop rates in the 2 zones are so small that anything that harms the reliability of the data, can kinda of ruin the whole point of gathering it.
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04/02/2013 04:40 PMPosted by Armeleon
Have never done this. Sounds like a valuable effort, I can definitely join in next time I farm KD2 or CotA. I see one problem though: Like most people, I kill the elite in CotA and with a screen full of Exploding Palms going off I find it unlikely that it's possible to determine whether a legendary dropped from the elite or the white mobs. I would imagine that any (possible) differences between the drop rates in the 2 zones are so small that anything that harms the reliability of the data, can kinda of ruin the whole point of gathering it.

I have thought of this as well.

I have two main positions regarding the elite issue.

The first would be that you can mathematically calc the chance for the elite to drop a legendary quite easily then calc the average time it takes you to run CotA and reduce your total legs by that #.

The reason for this is that the elite, unlike trash mobs, always drops 3.5 items (on average).

My second thought, and the one I am currently running with, is that the disparity is WAY larger than the elite can account for and should come through with or without the elite's presence.

My belief is that Skull Cleavers in KD2 have the same drop chance as the skeletons in CotA while Quill-guys and Small skels in KD2 have a significantly lower drop chance.

I am also interested in a direct comparison of the two runs and if the elite skews CotA's numbers, so be it, I still want to know if say 3.5k mobs in CotA is = 4.5k in KD2.

I would love it if you just calced your total mobs killed and total legendaries found. That would give me a place to start from for sure!

It would also be very interesting to see if other people get the same (or close to the same) average mobs/legendary number in the same zone ... it should be as long as both players are paragon 100 ... but who knows!
Edited by Druin#1518 on 4/2/2013 4:51 PM PDT
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Well done, Armeleon.

I tried something very similar not long ago but for the last few weeks have been trying to find a WoL (with any of the runes) build that's significantly better than Exploding Palm/Cyclone Strike. I've actually got pretty close but nothing significantly better yet. It shows promise when you one-shot an entire group with a single WoL bell - who needs exploding palm? ;)

Completely with you on Keeps Level 2. While I admire and have learned stuff from Druin and his CotA analysis/opinion, I can't stand logging out/in and TR to portal/entrances so much. Seems like there has to be something in Keeps LVL 2 more efficient. Not that it will matter much longer with the incoming patch.

As you said yourself, I do my best not to have to use autoattack at all. I only use it when I find my self out of spirit and this often happen with just a couple of mobs around. In my experience FoT/Quickening fills my spirit quicker unless I have loads of mobs around.

I have tried it, and sometimes do use it for CotA.


Bingo. FoT-Quickening is more spirit but Crippling Wave-Rising Tide (even being a slower base attack) is slightly more damage.

One thing, Armeleon, you might want to add to your analysis and/or videos is being explicit that "trying" (without hindering speed too much) to keep mobs in front of you is important for good spirit generation.
While this isn't as important in builds that swing little, having near full-globe-fills from a single FoT-Q swing (your third hit) can make or break many setups. The ~8/~29 spirit from your first two FoT-Q hits should be sufficient until your third hit which will usually happen when you are taking down the large groups. Whereas the small groups will be nearly one-shotted so you can use passive spirit generation OR EP-SS to recoup spirit for the next group.

*You can create a quick algebraic model showing that FoT-Q is (somewhat significantly) more spirit than CW-RT as long as you keep more mobs in your front 180% radius. Quickening becomes exponentially better than Rising Tide with the more mobs you can keep in front of you because of Guardian's Path's 35% so it's partially area dependent but again, with any conscience effort Quickening should reign supreme. If you are using Cyclone Strike, mobs can/will be pulled behind the ~180% radius BUT enough still should be in front of you to beat-out CW-RT. And you can always take a step back ;).

Another thing, Armelon... are you sure a Marq Emerald is better in your setup? Seems like from my brief look a Marq Ruby would do slightly more for you @ ~44% cc.
Edited by blhotz#1823 on 4/2/2013 5:02 PM PDT
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One thing, Armeleon, you might want to add to your analysis and/or videos is being explicit that "trying" (without hindering speed too much) to keep mobs in front of you is important for good spirit generation


Good point. Will try to remember to explain that next time I make a video with FoT-Quickening.

It shows promise when you one-shot an entire group with a single WoL bell - who needs exploding palm?


The main point here was really to try something different from WOL without loosing efficiency. I'v had it in every single solo build since 1.0.7 hit, and am really enjoying the CS + EP combo atm. :)

While it would be foolish to claim that my build is better than WOL builds for trash farming (without even testing it properly), there are things that it does do better. After all, one-shotting the entire group with WOL doesn't fill your spirit bar nor does it stack up the mobs if its not really a 'group' for one reason or another.

Another thing, Armelon... are you sure a Marq Emerald is better in your setup? Seems like from my brief look a Marq Ruby would do slightly more for you @ ~44% cc.


Definately not better for this set up, equal at best. For stat sheet DPS they are very close to equal. The reason I use Emerald is this: I use WOL a lot and with a 7% WOL crit SOJ emerald has a significant edge. And don't want to be paying the unsocket everytime I change builds.
Edited by Armeleon#2661 on 4/2/2013 5:15 PM PDT
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Bingo. FoT-Quickening is more spirit but Crippling Wave-Rising Tide (even being a slower base attack) is slightly more damage.

CW:RT is quite a bit more spirit generation for the first two hits when there are several mobs in front of you. This means that if you are only getting hits 1 and 2 off before going back to spirit spenders that reset your combo (most or all of them?) it may turn out that CW is better.

I have tried FoT:Q quite a lot and found it to consistently under-perform compared to CW:RT.

I auto attack a lot more than Armeleon so that might be why! :D

I guess the damage is probably a pretty large factor as well. If I can't kill the mobs with EP on them my life gets frustrating and the single target nature of hits 1 and 2 on FoT do NOT help with that unless you happen to perfectly target it and the mobs are perfectly in range! :D
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Nice Armeleon. That build is tiring!
I can't see your profile and gear in the video is a little fuzzy. What's up with your profile ?
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This thread is like the scene from a Princess Bride, except both are immune to iocane powder.
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04/02/2013 07:08 PMPosted by GAK
What's up with your profile ?


I play on EU. To make it easy: http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Armeleon-2661/

But any time a profile doesn't exist in the link from the forums it's a pretty safe bet that you'll find it by swapping the us. for eu.
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My second thought, and the one I am currently running with, is that the disparity is WAY larger than the elite can account for and should come through with or without the elite's presence.

My belief is that Skull Cleavers in KD2 have the same drop chance as the skeletons in CotA while Quill-guys and Small skels in KD2 have a significantly lower drop chance.

I am also interested in a direct comparison of the two runs and if the elite skews CotA's numbers, so be it, I still want to know if say 3.5k mobs in CotA is = 4.5k in KD2.


This makes the most sense to me as well. Simply because only a significant difference is actually testable. The high variation in drops caused by complete randomness means that even a very extensive data (say 500k white mob kills for each zone) would only prove anything if the difference in the chance per average mob is in the range of 15%+.

Can't say that I share your belief based on my own subjective experience though :)

I think we'v all seen those dry streaks as well as looted that 5 leges in 5 minutes, so 1 hour or 10 hours means nothing here.

Oh, and if we are ignoring the amount of elites killed I actually do have some data with both Life Time Kills and leges looted recorded. Just didn't think of this since the data was collected to count LTK per hour to compare zones and MPs.
Edited by Armeleon#2661 on 4/3/2013 4:14 PM PDT
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