Diablo® III

T.D.P. Dual Wield discussion

04/02/2013 05:03 PMPosted by zylog
On another note, using bash punish with a metronome is very convenient, as I finally know exactly when to refresh my stacks.


If you can fit a good run in with Bash, I would very much appreciate it....We can show 3 viable WW builds to take down the Ubers AND win the challenge....
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Out of curiosity........... has the amount of gold for each team been determined? I dont see that anywhere listed. I think it matters because I do not believe that equal efficiency can be achieved on equal budgets between these builds.

Lastly, do you guys have Portals to practice, if you need extra portals, I can donate if needed. All I can say is...........Team WW better f'ing win this sh1t.

WES SEA FO LEA NEA!
Edited by BigBaller#1318 on 4/2/2013 6:15 PM PDT
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@ BigBaller

Thanks for dropping by. The Terms are set in the original challenge thread. Budget is set at 1B. Thanks for your offer of portals too, I think that would be very useful for the guys.
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So it's definitely the stream that was giving me hell this afternoon. Just got disconnected (thankfully wasn't in Hardcore this time). My latency showed 118, but apparently the servers just decided to disconnect me while the rest of my connectivity was fine. Good lesson at least -- pause the game.
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I'm also really tired and going to wind down watching a very specific baseball game. Texas vs. Houston. Darvish has pitched seven perfect frames so far.
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04/02/2013 07:29 PMPosted by acrimonious
I'm also really tired and going to wind down watching a very specific baseball game. Texas vs. Houston. Darvish has pitched seven perfect frames so far.


Oooooo, thanks for the heads up.

I'm at work all day tomorrow, won't be back in game until Thursday at best....then Friday Nived will flex his gearing muscle (don't forget to take screenshots). Once the gear gets hammered out a little I can get my build on track....still looking for the perfect 4th skill to incorporate....
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04/02/2013 07:29 PMPosted by acrimonious
I'm also really tired and going to wind down watching a very specific baseball game. Texas vs. Houston. Darvish has pitched seven perfect frames so far.


Acrimonious,

Your from Texas? Houston/Dallas by any chance?
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Does the WT stun rune yield anything to an uber fight? Are any of them even effected by stun at all? Never tried it so more of a curiosity question.

Stun effects them all to some degree
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Bash + Punish might come in handy not just as a fury generator but also for that extra 24% damage buff which gets snapshot by ww if you bash 3 times just before you start to whirl? I've personally seen much faster kills with it.

Is anybody going to use a ww + hota dw build?
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Team Name: Whirling Dervishes

My best idea ever! lol I will copyright that and charge a million gold everytime someone mentions it.
Edited by MasterPUA#6728 on 4/3/2013 1:01 AM PDT
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@MasterPUA

I think our gearing strategy at the moment is towards optimizing for tDPS via an EF + ruby mainhand paired with a fast stack stick offhand, in order to take advantage of how tick mechanics work for dual wielding. That type of offhand is usually not so well suited for hota. Additionally, while WW + HotA is a versatile build for farming (I use it myself), HotA and WW are inherently at odds with each other since one is a stationnary attack whereas the other one provides constant movement. For the purpose of ubers, where the bosses are very predictable, I think it's better to go with either a pure WW or pure HotA setup where all the skills are able to contribute in synergy with each other.

As for punish, I'll probably be following build :
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/barbarian#ahRQUP!XZY!bZYZZc

Learning to keep up a high uptime of punish stacks will therefore be a part of my preparation. While non-generator builds can certainly be very potent, I'm not 100% convinced that they're better than juggling punish's 24%. It'll be interesting to see what kind of results our team comes up with using different builds, for all those DW barbs trying to decide on which build to use themselves. Even if it is outperformed, punish is a more accessible build for most barbs so a reference as to how it differs in DPS would be nice.

Tonight when I got hit by Kulle's rocks followed immediately by a pickup by siegebreaker, I tried out Chaz's idea of swapping in a defensive item, though I used a Litany ring instead of a stormshield. It worked pretty well. I think it's worthwhile to pick up a cheap phys res litany ring for a few hundred k, it comes with str(=armour), AR, regen and elite reduction as default so we can swap it in when anticipating an unlucky pickup combo by siegebreaker.
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@MasterPUA

I think our gearing strategy at the moment is towards optimizing for tDPS via an EF + ruby mainhand paired with a fast stack stick offhand, in order to take advantage of how tick mechanics work for dual wielding. That type of offhand is usually not so well suited for hota. Additionally, while WW + HotA is a versatile build for farming (I use it myself), HotA and WW are inherently at odds with each other since one is a stationnary attack whereas the other one provides constant movement. For the purpose of ubers, where the bosses are very predictable, I think it's better to go with either a pure WW or pure HotA setup where all the skills are able to contribute in synergy with each other.

As for punish, I'll probably be following build :
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/barbarian#ahRQUP!XZY!bZYZZc

Learning to keep up a high uptime of punish stacks will therefore be a part of my preparation. While non-generator builds can certainly be very potent, I'm not 100% convinced that they're better than juggling punish's 24%. It'll be interesting to see what kind of results our team comes up with using different builds, for all those DW barbs trying to decide on which build to use themselves. Even if it is outperformed, punish is a more accessible build for most barbs so a reference as to how it differs in DPS would be nice.

Tonight when I got hit by Kulle's rocks followed immediately by a pickup by siegebreaker, I tried out Chaz's idea of swapping in a defensive item, though I used a Litany ring instead of a stormshield. It worked pretty well. I think it's worthwhile to pick up a cheap phys res litany ring for a few hundred k, it comes with str(=armour), AR, regen and elite reduction as default so we can swap it in when anticipating an unlucky pickup combo by siegebreaker.


easy way to know when to refresh punish is to bash after 2 circles for the smaller model ubers and 1-1.5 circles for the larger model ubers.
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"Akimbo" for team name?
i use to play fps modernwarfare 3 online and some other servers are not allowing akimbo (dual weapon) due to its over power in close/melle range
Edited by elkarera#6933 on 4/2/2013 11:12 PM PDT
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As for punish, I'll probably be following build :http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/barbarian#ahRQUP!XZY!bZYZZc


I tried using Berserker Rage passive before but it's so tricky as it requres the exact opposite of what wotb/toc requires - for the fury to not be full so it was very cumbersome for me. it does come in handy if you somehow lose your wotb buff and would have to fight without it while waiting for the cooldown to finish. If this happens, then you can fight with full fury the entire time you're without wotb so you get berserker to work for you.
Edited by MasterPUA#6728 on 4/3/2013 12:08 AM PDT
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They prally end up using ls or defensive passive in budget gears.
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I made a nice long post explaining how I plan to use punish and berserker rage for my run, but unfortunately it disappeared as I tried to post it here. Here is a summary:

- berserker rage works on a periodic check every 45 frames, between which fury can fluctuate without affecting its uptime

- WW channeling and sprint snapshot damage on cast, ideally you want to have battle rage (15%), berserker rage (25%) and punish (24%) all up when casting them for a 1.64 damage multiplier

I went into some tactics for managing some of the above, but there's still a lot of stuff that needs to be figured out, such as whether it's worthwhile to delay spinning to get a berserker rage snapshot.
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easy way to know when to refresh punish is to bash after 2 circles for the smaller model ubers and 1-1.5 circles for the larger model ubers.


Is Ghom considered a large or small boss?

When I ran a simple test against non-uber Ghom, I could circle him 2.5 times in 4.5 seconds. Bash takes 20 and 23 frames at 2.86 and 2.5 APS, respectively, which fits comfortably within that last half second.

I suggest that you try out punish while running a metronome. It makes it quite a lot clearer about when it is necessary to refresh your stacks, as extra time spent bashing means less time spinning and dropping tornados.
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Sorry to interrupt your conversation, (have been following this discussion).
Is Nats boots+ring a viable option for this budget build?
Boots with str+vit and a ring with str+ vit+ 4+cc can both be bought at under 100M and give a huge CC boost as well as 12% MS. I understand that this interfers with the rings setup, but can maybe afford more gold to be spent on other gear and also solve the potential CC deficit.
Anyway, just a thought and perhaps one you already discussed and dismissed.
Greetings from Europe, can't wait to see the result.
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04/03/2013 10:52 AMPosted by DismembeR
Boots with str+vit and a ring with str+ vit+ 4+cc can both be bought at under 100M and give a huge CC boost as well as 12% MS. I understand that this interfers with the rings setup, but can maybe afford more gold to be spent on other gear and also solve the potential CC deficit.


I really don't have too much to comment on here...but this is a shameless bump as seeing the Skorn loser thread above ours on the main barb page bothers me a bit. :3

On the real, this idea sounds good, but the EHP bonuses given up to get that crit would probably not be worth it. You will definitely give up the EHP bonus of the IC boots, but also give a possible "bonus vs elite" on an offhand unity/wailing ring. Finding the perfect non SoJ ring will require some math, but something tells me for a Nat ring to fit that bill...it will be way more expensive then 100 for the ring alone.
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I don't think Nat's set is worth it. I actually happen to have Str + Vit Nat's boots and a str/4.5CC reflection in my gear collection, but the problem is that you lose so many stats on the boots compared to ice climbers that the ring needs to be amazingly good to compensate i.e. trifecta. I keep the gear around whenever I want to experiment with specialty build requiring extreme crit chance, but for normal play, and particularly ubers, I would stick with Ice Climbers and a rare ring.
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