Diablo® III

BatBarrage: Updated

Maybe we can push for Plague Bats to have it's tool tip changed for clarification? If it's truly a Damage over Time spell, it should be reflected as such in the tool tip.
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thank you, manvan !

so i'm not the only one who's noticed a lot of sycophants.

why are you against leeching dogs? i'm sort of new here; i would have missed any discussion where it was decided they are no good.

thanks again!
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Hehe like I said back when I only had 47k dps I could do MP10 elites in about 2 minutes with plague bats, it's good because it's cheap and effective and because with LS even when running away you are healing due to the ticks of damage :)

It doesn't match bears or sac but it's one of the closest we can get.
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Finally found some time to try out the bats and far out its rough getting in that close. I could try dropping the mp (currently 6) for something more suitable for my gear since it felt like I was playing a constant game of cat and mouse with the elites.

If I wanted to go a full blown dot build I could see this working as a part of that though. Definitely worth giving the bats a go, I'll likely add it to my build rotation. Thank you.
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@surijak

yeah you definitely aren't geared for MP6 regardless of the build. i'm almost triple your sheet dps and i feel like elites in mp6 take a while with a bear build :P
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OK Manvan. I posted your build up under bat builds.

Thanks again.
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When you said something like 'bats - SB - SB - bats', what is the timeline on that?
More specifically, if I have 1.0 APS, should I be applying bats every other second? bats - SB - bats - SB?
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@skywalker - Hard to say on the Skorn, as I've only been using one for about a fortnight. Stuff hits harder, no doubt - but gee, I miss the speed and mana regen from a 1 hand/mojo. Think it depends on what you are running - higher MP, Skorn's thump and conservative mana use, coupled with up to 6% LS, will shine a little more, but for farming runs, I really did enjoy being that little more nimble.

@Fean - Crucially good point I'm sorry I missed. LS and Bats is huge. Being a DoT, coupled with fast animation/casting speed, means it's incredibly good to flick a spurt into a mob you're kiting and fill the red ball

@MrMojoRisin - cheers for the enthusiasm - nice to know people have got something out of it. As for Leeching Puppies, it reads so well, doesn't it? Unfortunately, they do such little damage that the LS is just not worth it. Don't have the numbers handy, but worked out a while back that the return could be something like 150% and it still could not come close to the damage mitigation from something like Lifelink.

@Surijack - greatdivider has a point in that I think most builds would give you a bit of grief at MP6. However, you make a good point. It's a toe-to-toe build a lot of the time, and if you're used to chucking in Ghost Bombs from behind Dogs and Gary (not saying you are, it's just an example), then yeah, this will be white-knuckle for many. However, you've touched on one of the main reasons I play it. It's fast, you have to be quick, you have to be involved. Takes a little more skill than Bears, with less efficiency, but it's fun, challenging, and once you're used to things, you really can give better-perceived builds a real run for their money.

@MCP - At 1.0 AS, you're on the money. Bats for more than a tick, 2 Barrage, rinse, repeat. Up around 1.5 or so, it's the same, but shouild be able to squeeze 3 Spirit bolts in. Play for a little with monster health bars on - it's really not that tricky to get them melting at a pretty solid rate.

Again @skywalker - cheers for the add, and cheers for the foot up the backside. May I return the favour... ;)
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Damn nice - I will be trying bats tonight.
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04/05/2013 02:27 PMPosted by manvan
Again @skywalker - cheers for the add, and cheers for the foot up the backside. May I return the favour... ;)


Well I would justly deserve it! The thought did just occur to me though. My build really just takes from other Proc builds, but all builds are like that to a certain extent.
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Thanks for the info. I'll play around with it some more tonight.


@MrMojoRisin - cheers for the enthusiasm - nice to know people have got something out of it. As for Leeching Puppies, it reads so well, doesn't it? Unfortunately, they do such little damage that the LS is just not worth it. Don't have the numbers handy, but worked out a while back that the return could be something like 150% and it still could not come close to the damage mitigation from something like Lifelink.

Yes the damage reduction is better with life link dogs, but the leaching dogs stay alive longer against annoying elite affixes.

I would propose, if I was hiding behind my dogs with the right build, that leaching beasts reduce my damage taken more because they stay alive longer.

I will have to try it in this build and I think life link makes sense, but if the life link dogs die too quickly then might as well drop them completely since they won't be around to reduce damage when you need it the most.
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is there any other skill that would slot in place of spirit barrage with equal effectiveness? i really like my fetish sycophants but SB does not trigger them??

i ran MP6 last night with the build you see on my profile and did fine. couple of random deaths, but not many. the pets and sycophants do a great job at holding aggro while i run around applying bats to everything.

i didn't know it was a DoT spell before, and used to spam the heck out of it on one group of mobs. last night, instead of this, and instead of throwing in SB in between, i instead ran around applying to to different groups of mobs all around me while the pets held their attention.
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PLAGUE BATS MECHANICS

I´m a researcher. If you play a Barb, chances are you know this topic
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/6037344497

Anyway, I´ve been also researching skills from other classes here and there and Plague Bats has one of the weirdest mechanics that I´ve seen in the game...

It´s sort of a DoT but not a true DoT plus it stacks..but let me elaborate. Here´s a few tests I just did, which should demonstrate the mechanics.

Test 1: white weapon 33-43 base damage, 1.296 total aps, +20 min damage amulet, 1872 intelligence, +85% critical hit damage
53 * 19.72 = 1045.16 (this is 100% damage)

439-366-366-366-366-439-439-37 = 2818 dmg / 8 ticks = 269.62% total damage
812-677-677-677-677-812-812-68 = 5212 dmg / 8 ticks = 498.68% total damage (crit)

Test 2: white weapon 9-11 base damage, 1.00 total aps, +20 min damage amulet, 1591 int
29*16.91 = 490.39 (100% damage)

132-159-159-159-132-159-132-132-132-26 = 1322 dmg / 10 ticks = 269.58% total damage
119-132-132-132-132-159-159-132-132-93 = 1322 dmg / 10 ticks = 269.58% total damage
132-159-132-132-132-132-159-132-132-79 = 1321 dmg / 10 ticks = 269.38% total damage

Note that no matter what your aps is, the tick frame length (number of frames between ticks) is 30, so you always get 2 ticks per second. From just these two tests it´s clear that the number of ticks value varies and (reverse) scales with aps, which is unusual for true DoTs which always keep the same duration, so Plague Bats is not a true DoT like for example Grasp of the Dead.

At 1.00 aps I got 10 ticks, at 1.296 aps I got 8 ticks. So my first conclusion is

number of ticks = (10 / aps); rounded up

10 / 1.296 = 7.71 = 8 rounded up. To confirm this conclusion, I made another test with 1.50 aps and got 7 ticks. 10 / 1.50 = 6.67 = 7 rounded up.

DoTs don´t always give you the same damage each tick (it often jumps around due to an unstable in game frame rate), but the sum of all ticks equals the total damage the skill is said to do over x seconds. In case of Plague Bats, this is always 270% weapon damage.

The minor discrepancy (sum of tick damage not being exactly 270% weapon damage) is caused by how the game rounds damage values. In the second example, 1/10 of 270% weapon damage is 132.4053 and the game displays this as 132. In test 2, there´s also the following tick values

159 which is 120% of 132.4053; the exact value 158.88636
119 which is 90% of 132.4053; the exact value is 119.16477
93 which is 70% of 132.4053; the exact value is 92.68371
79 which is 60% of 132.4053; the exact value is 79.44318
26 which is 20% of 132.4053; the exact value is 26.48106

So in test 2, out of 10 ticks, monster 1 had 5 usual ticks that did 1/10 of 270% damage, 4 ticks that did 120% of usual damage and one tick that did 20% of usual damage.

In test 1, the usual tick damage value (366) is not exactly 1/8 of 270% damage but rather 270% / (10 / aps) and it doesn´t round here.

The game seems to use the last tick to adjust the total result to the correct 270% damage as otherwise you would do more damage than that because the game rounds up the number of ticks (10 / aps) but doesn´t seem to round when calculating the usual tick damage (270% / (10 / aps).

Anyway, the exact mechanics aren´t that important, important is the fact that aps lowers the duration of Plague Bats with the aforementioned formula 10 / aps; rounded up. The higher your attack speed is, the less time it takes for Plague Bats to deliver 270% damage.

OK, but this isn´t the whole story. As I said at the beginning, Plague Bats seems to stack. The tests described above only show 1 stack damage. It is very difficult to identify the exact damage values for more than 1 stack, because the tick damage values jump around.

So far, I´ve been able to identify a second stack that prolonged the duration by 1 tick and most ticks did twice as much damage. For example the following sequence (using test 1 weapon)

451-731-731-731-731-731-731-622-171 = 538.67% total damage

I believe there´s also a third stack if you keep channeling the skill. Here´s an example of such a sequence (also test 1 weapon):

451-1122-1097-1097-1097-1097-1317-866-305 = 808.39% total damage

I´ll do more tests to confirm the stacks but I hope the above research gives you a basic idea about the mechanics of this skill.
Edited by Nubtro#2147 on 4/5/2013 4:04 PM PDT
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I'm gonna give it a try, to break up the monotony if nothing else. Cheers, manvan!
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awesome! so higher attack speed increases our damage output in the same time frame, if we keep spamming monsters with it?

or does this simply compensate for the lower weapon damage that a faster weapon has?

monk's skill backlash has its damage % scale up the higher your attack speed is. this means that no matter what your weapon damage - slow and hard hits, or fast smaller hits - as long as sheet dps is equal, the damage output of backlash will be equal.

is bats sort of like that?
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Nubtro, that is beyond awesome. Thanks - it's massively appreciated.

Yeah, that third stack is very weird. I've seen the numbers to support it, but it's so all over the place I can't say it exists with conviction. And even if it does, it doesn't seem like a 'true' third stack - it adds damage, but at a severely reduced ratio or something. If you can nut it out, I'd be grateful.
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@manvan

This is a fun build I realy like it.

@Nubtro

Thx You that's realy helpfull info.

@MrMojoRisin

You only use Leeching Beast Dogs when you have 10k+ Thorns and are using the LF passive. Other wise the only healing done is by what the dogs is attacking for and that's not much.
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noted!

what kind of dogs would you recommend then? i don't feel the lifelink are necessary. so poison or fire?
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Nubtro, that is beyond awesome. Thanks - it's massively appreciated.
Yeah, that third stack is very weird. I've seen the numbers to support it, but it's so all over the place I can't say it exists with conviction. And even if it does, it doesn't seem like a 'true' third stack - it adds damage, but at a severely reduced ratio or something. If you can nut it out, I'd be grateful.


Actually, it is possible to stack 5 when you channel it, sometimes it jumps to more stacks, just look at this

53*16.91 = 490.39 (100%) at 1.00 aps:

132-265-397-596-728-874-874-702-662-662
662-662-662-662-662-662-662-662-794-662
662-847-728-874-887-927-728-728-(stopped channeling)-874-689
794-recording stopped

132 = one stack, 265 = two stacks, 397 = 3 stacks, 596 = 4.5 stacks, 662 = 5 stacks, 728 = 5.5 stacks, 794 = 6 stacks, 847/887 (860) = 6.5 stacks, 927 = 7 stacks...

Now I´m trying to figure out when the game checks for more stacks.
Edited by Nubtro#2147 on 4/5/2013 5:37 PM PDT
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Wow, thanks for testing Nubtro!

I always thought that it just stacked with no limit but I might be wrong. And how does the damage ramp up to 270%? The duration being shortened with attack speed is strange but maybe that is how they increase dps with higher attack speed.
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