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Why MP7 as the reference point? My question is: can you farm MP2 and be efficient? Start with the goal (e.g. vota run = 7 elites & gobs on average times drop rate / time = optimal). In other words, how long for MP2 clears to equal MP7 clears... It's all RNG and therefore statistical. So the 50 DE / hour goal can be "backed" into. Use statistics to determine the drop rate then calculate time needed to meet the goal.
I think focusing on any MP Level is the wrong course here. Need to focus maneuverability. MP level is a factor of drop rate only... NO class... NOT dh, NOT wiz, NOT monk puts out, anywhere close, to barb tdps! Dmg and MP level are non-factors - we should out-damage them all... Given that our damage is superior for PVE, our only focus, in this case, should be elite search and destroy speed.
You inspired this whole thread... Enjoyed your build!!!
Can't view vid yet. Foot speed and lower MP = getting to and killing elites quicker. Kept trying charge.... Not a fan. Too slow, doesn't add to clears. Just a fury gen spell - no multi-purpose utility.
Edited by ColdKnight#1158 on 4/9/2013 10:04 PM PDT
Completely agree. Not necessarily about what class farms DE faster but it is a challenge. Otherwise, why use your barb to clear VotA? I think barb should be fastest... Think we have sacred cows is all.
Must use both Wep Master and Ruthless. Must use Wrath. Must use Punish. (Although Manner isn't using sacred cows like Wrath or Punish)... Must max all DPS. Must farm high MP's to show we are better than all other classes.
Just trying to get us to think outside the box and focus on the goal. Question all assumptions.
Edited by ColdKnight#1158 on 4/9/2013 9:27 PM PDT
Wow this guy is an idiot! You dont even know what COTA stands for CRYPT OF THE ANCIENTS you idiot!!!! COTA is what most nuke monks run on act 1 mp10 to yield the most legends per hour. COTA has been around for many months and i've been helping a lot of others on the us monk forums for quite a few months as well
Here is a link to this info for your noob character:
particularly you should read this one
its for Bell noobs
I made a reference to the legend farming of my monk on MP10 COTA to my barb on mp10 act 2 keep act 3 you idiot. Wow!!!!
ur monk has only 1.5k kills wow it has less ehp less dps and less spirit regen then mine. I run mp5-6 VOTA that vault of the ancients only slightly slower maybe more towards 22-25 seconds per elite kill which craps on ur stats. 35-45 de's per hour. Add me ill be on tonight if you wanna know about COTA?
Im not some mindless idiot running VOTA on such a low mp which is way too ez and less efficient & yes me and quite a few others on the monk forums have proven this. So why would i care if you have more kill on your wizard and barb. You have just said all you do is mindless low level grinding for less reward. If you know anyone such as DRUIN on monk forums you would know we play regularly together and have been on the monk forums from day one trying and testing builds on different mp's and actually adding to the community. Most of my play is either on mp5-7 VOTA on my monk and act 1 COTA mp10 on my Barb its act 3 lvl 2 keep mp10 and or COTA mp10.
All i have to do is craft maybe another 100-200 ammys to finally get an extra 8-9% AS hopefully on a trifecta ammy and equip my 30% elite bonus 5% soj and my Tdps nearly doubles on my barba. ATM im not even running str gems haha again because i need to craft better shoulders ammy and gloves thats it lol.
This is so i get the ww break point for running a skorn and SOJ ya idiot. seems like i have to dumb things down so you have to understand.
Is that a better call out? ya idiot?
Edited by Taross#1144 on 4/9/2013 9:31 PM PDT
Tried a slight variation of MannerCookie's build on MP7, and it didn't go as well as I expected. I missed wotb more than I thought I would and died to a few frozen packs. Probably need to back down a couple of MP's and get more practice. I also felt like I was wasting tons of time finding mobs. Leap is an awesome skill for sure though. Pretty cool that a build without the barb staples of wotb, sprint:rltw and whirlwind can actually be superior.
I also had 5 piece IK in addition to unforgiving, but I still couldn't live without into the fray.
250K buffed DPS with OP:KS+BR
Edited by silverfire#1855 on 4/9/2013 9:18 PM PDT
I don't think that any dps focused skill should be combined with another. For example, Smash and Ravage might not belong in the same build for our purposes - one or the other. Charge might, similarly, not be in a build. While I agree that single target + AOE is great for general farming; I don't think it is optimal for elite s&d. Find, kill quickly, and even more quickly... move to the next elite. Search, destroy, search again. 2 parts search, only 1 part destroy.
One DPS skill to cut-down elites... I'm thinking single target is optimal to kill the occasional yellows quicker vs. occasional blues.
All other skills should be speed / fury based.
Edited by ColdKnight#1158 on 4/9/2013 10:09 PM PDT
Look at the chart in the OP's first post. You can see what you need in elite kills to break 40 DE per hour on each MP level. No matter how fast you think you are, there is no way to achieve those numbers at the lower MP levels. You can't possibly see that many elite in an hour. You can at the higher level, but you have to kill them quick enough so it make sense. Its going to take someone who can use a lot of speed in their build AND can handle ultra hard MP level elites and down them quickly. That's going to require an amazingly powerful barb who knows what he's doing.
40 essences per hour should be possible. Something around the line of mp 8, with 4 min per run (including load screens) would be possible with enough dps. I couldnt do it with 2.8 million in game dps but perhaps with 3.5 million its possible. Enough dps to be able to drop overpower and rend and incorporate Frenzy vangard and Leap.
Perhaps It would even be possible on mp 6 but it would require extreme DPS with extreme break point to be able to keep WOTB. I am thinking 2.86 for EF and at least 3.33 preferably 4 for off hand.
Edited by Pieton#1365 on 4/9/2013 10:29 PM PDT
In order to get 35 essences per hour (assuming 7 elites and gobs per run), you would need to clear VotA in:
0 ----> 1:48
1 ----> 1:58
2 ----> 2:11
3 ----> 2:23
4 ----> 2:38
5 ----> 2:54
6 ----> 3:14
7 ----> 3:30
8 ----> 3:51
9 ----> 4:15
10 ----> 4:40
At 9 gobs and elites...
0 ----> 2:18
1 ----> 2:32
2 ----> 2:48
3 ----> 3:04
4 ----> 3:23
5 ----> 3:43
6 ----> 4:09
7 ----> 4:30
8 ----> 4:57
9 ----> 5:27
10 ----> 6:00
This is according to Nubtro's numbers (thanks Nubtro). Someone can double check my math.
In order to clear MP7 you need to be 61% better than MP2. Or clear MP2 by 1 min 42 secs faster than MP7 (@9 elites + gobs per VotA run).
Keep in mind, these numbers do not include exit and reload times.
Edited by ColdKnight#1158 on 4/9/2013 11:15 PM PDT
thanks for the support of the build for those of you who've tried lt :P
and I'm glad we've created some fun competition between us.
Essences are core of the true-end game for D3, which is PVP (when it actually comes out).
Finding the most optimal way to farm essences is an important part of the game no one has really figured out yet for 1.08.
I encourage you guys to try my build or some variation of it that you think might work.
Will be trying mp6 later tonight, will post results!
Edited by MannerCookie#1362 on 4/10/2013 3:00 AM PDT
@Taross you are a dip!@#$. Your arguments are as retarded as you are. The fact that I did not know what COTA stood for really has nothing to do with our argumen. It is your total lack of class and your ignorance that is perpetuating this arguement. Let me quote you again
You never once said anything about an mp level. You said your barb on keeps 2 can net the same amount of essences as your monk doing COTA runs. Keep depths 2 is a very large area with minimal elites in comparison to the size so if your monk and barb are getting the same net essences they you are doing it wrong with both of them. My point is that no one so far is hitting more than 36 essences/hour which right around where my noob monk is with 106k dps.
The fact that I have a bit less AR and a bit less health on my monk that I just hit 60 with two days ago and started gearing is your argument. Of course his gear sucks and he has low elite kills and I am a noob with a monk. This just furthers my point.
You talk about me mindlessly running low mps for no reward. You are mindlessly running the crypt of the ancients over and over. It does not get any more mindless than killing one elite and then restarting the game. This monks entire purpose is to run low mp's for essences. Nothing more. If I wanted loot, I would take my barb and farm as high as I want. I never once said I farmed low mp's for anything other than essences with anything other than my monk. Why would you assume that I also do that with my barb?
Why did you post links to threads that talk about high level mp farming with different builds? I have stated that this monk is made for speed to run low level mp's and you link 3 threads that talk about how you need different skills to run higher mps and @Druin said that bells is for a noob on mp 10. This is a very week argument since I never once said that I wanted to run anything higher than mp 4 or 5 at the highest but not if it reduced my speed at all. Also, you are running the same frigging build as my monk so why in the hell would you say bells is for noobs?
You initially called me out and clearly stated that I do not understand barbs or monks as you do. My limitations with my monk skills gear is simply due to limited experience and I am fairly close to you in terms of stats.You have had lots of time with your barb yet your build still sucks and you claim to 'know and understand both' You clearly do not understand your barb and you are still posting the barb forum as if you do.
None of my posts in the monk forum claim that I know what I am doing. The opposite actually. I clearly state I am a noob. You, however, just yesterday posted in a thread for someone who was wondering if they should make the jump from DW to 2H for a WW build and you told him that you prefer the dps from the skorn over DW. Your barbs tDPS is only 1.62m fully buffed. That guy you gave advice to had a fully buffed tDPS of 2.2m and his paper dps was 15k less than yours.
Your attempt to make me look like an %^- may be working in your eyes but I think most people can see through your BS. I have no intention of backing down and every time that I catch you spreading misinformation in the barb forum, I will be the first to tell you that you do not know what you are doing. The first piece of information that I am going to contest is this
WTF are you talking about and what are you calling me out for? You are running a skorn with WW. Your paper dps is 233k but your fully buffed tDPS is 1.62m and you have the nerve to call me an idiot and say that you need to dumb it down for me. There is no way that adding another 9% IAS and a SOJ is going to double your barbs tDPS. It is still going to suck based on the level of your tDPS. That is the limitation of using WW with a slow 2H. This is the most rediculus thing that you have said so far. The only reason your monk would out tDPS your barb is because you do not know how to properly gear your barb based on the skills you are using.
Rather than me join your game why don't you do one of your runs with your monk and your barb and post a short video of each. You are claiming 35-45 essences an hour which I can believe based on what I have seen but why such a broad range? Have you ever actually done timed runs and measured it.
Let me rewind a bit. You said that your barb and monk net about the same essences per hour with your monk on COTA mp 10 and your barb on keep depths 2. Your barb is not going to even hit 35 an hour in keep depths 2 so your monk must equally suck on COTA runs. This brings me to my next point which is if your monk is netting as many as 45 an hour on mp 5 why would you bother doing single COTA runs on mp 10 for far less essences?
Edited by KillerElite#1853 on 4/10/2013 12:40 PM PDT
I took the liberty of using d3rawr.com to modify your barb. I removed your rare ring and added a 6/30 SOJ. Your tDPS only goes up to 1.82m. I then added 9% IAS to your amulet and your tDPS only goes up to 2m. That is still over 200k less than the guy you offered advice to who was DW with less paper dps than you.
Edited by KillerElite#1853 on 4/10/2013 5:51 AM PDT
You can improve your yield slightly by giving your follower a puzzle ring. That should be 3 more gobs in 1 hr. And puzzle ring gobs are much easier to kill than regular gobs. If you're doing lower MPs, then give yourself one as well as long as it doesn't decrease your killing speed.
I did one mp10 run today in pretty glass cannon gear, and i died 3 times so iam not happy with the run. (but the more data the better right)
And my mp8 run.. Zero death's this time! :)
1. pack & goblin kills: 120
2. essence drops: 29 (bad RNG this run)
3. MP8 Vault of the Assassin
4. buffed damage: 742965.25 dps inventory
5. character - http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Det0x-2856/hero/432203
build - http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/barbarian#aZURcP!ZYW!bZZYZc
My theoretical average essence gain per hour is 120 * 0.3215383215 = 38.58 essences / hour.
I recorded this run also.. (Uploading to Youtube right now)
1 hour VotA mp8 run @ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hh_8MxY-Mpc
If i want to drop further down in monster power level i have to changed my build a little, as its getting very hard to keep perma berserker..
I find it pretty funny that iam able to out-farm MannerCookie's self proclaimed "best barb build" :)
Edited by Det0x#2856 on 4/10/2013 12:14 PM PDT
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