Diablo® III

Patch 1.08 & the concerns with changes to demonhunter

Does anyone have any further suggestions on how to help our eDPS issues?
Edited by RUNFORIT#1236 on 4/13/2013 5:06 PM PDT
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04/13/2013 01:03 PMPosted by bearr
I would drop the "bold" writing, as it's hard to read.


Totally agree, I skip any post that is in all Italics or Bold or Underline, etc.

Seems like a decent thread but I bet folks aren't taking quite a bit of it seriously because of a simple thing like this.
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04/13/2013 01:00 PMPosted by sidtherat
4. when i try to look at your diablo profile, this shows up "No heroes exist on this account." so i resorted to diablo progress, how about you update your diablo progress profile, it is done by a click of a button.


i cannot take seriously someone who cannot solve this mystery, sorry. but - to be constructive - my profile: http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/sidtherat-2330/hero/18673906 (please take note that my DH and my Wizz are self-found - except for SOJ that i couldnt resist buying for 150k)

btw2 - i agree that DH has an eDPS problem. but to solve it the changes made to the class have to be limited and reasonable. bringing back broken skills like ToC (that combined extreme utility with extreme damage without any drawbacks - sign of bad design) is not an option blizz will take. surely.

I think the changes does not necessarily have to be limited. Reasonable yes, but limited is relative (to the current most powerful/popular class). The numbers quoted were reasonable at least in my view, considering how much damage monks got buffed and they still are unable to function at similar capacities to barbarians. If anything else, those changes should definitely be seriously considered, and implemented on the PTR as a test run to give them an idea on how much buffs DHs need. From the looks of it, NOBODY at Blizz plays a DH, at least, nobody in the dev team. This would probably explain why the past changes to DH were very mindless and brain-dead style, suggesting that whomever implemented those changes had no idea what they were doing, and were only doing so because their lead producer wants something done ASAP so his barbarian does not feel slighted by DHs outtanking him.
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I think that they should reduce the cost of Spike Traps / Echoing Blast and then reduce the cast time. Because they explode with a little delay.
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04/13/2013 04:47 PMPosted by Brawl
I would drop the "bold" writing, as it's hard to read.


Totally agree, I skip any post that is in all Italics or Bold or Underline, etc.

Seems like a decent thread but I bet folks aren't taking quite a bit of it seriously because of a simple thing like this.


Thanks for the feedback, I thought it was easier for folks to read. I apologize about that.
I went through and edited the previous posts.
Thanks again for the suggestion!
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I said it before and I will say it again... DH only needs a boost to Multi shot so that it works like a Amazon's multi shot. It was a wonderful crowd AOE and made them a really good class for PVE. right now the skill is broken.

with current changes to monster density this seems like a logical choice also..

also.. Moo, moo, moo moo moo. Moo
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Hi guys.

I totally agree with OP.

Even if some of the suggestions would need some balancing, most of them look pretty cool. DH's eDPS problem is well known now and supported with evidence (just check out youtube and diablo forums).

Man, that would be cool to be able to use Nether tentacles efficiently (not with the bug that hit targets more than once, but with a dmg boost). But as for your suggestions, I don't care if Blizzard applies them or not:

I only want them to boost something so we can farm higher MPs as efficiently as monks and barbs. I cannot talk for WD and Wiz.

But yeah, I would drop the "bold" writing, as it's hard to read. The purpose of using bold is to highlight what is important. Not every word you write is important (and it can never be, so...). Thanks!

btw2 - i agree that DH has an eDPS problem. but to solve it the changes made to the class have to be limited and reasonable. bringing back broken skills like ToC (that combined extreme utility with extreme damage without any drawbacks - sign of bad design) is not an option blizz will take. surely.


+ 1

But the difference between you and OP is that OP makes suggestions. At least he tries something, but I like the way you see the problem still.


Hi bearr and thank you for your response.
What do you think about my idea for Dual-Wielding being the forth spot added for archery?

DUAL-WIELD USERS: 7CC, 5%IAS, 5% Bonus to Life this will help dual-wield users be viable, since everyone is forced to use dead mans legacy, since it offers 5% more ias than the 15%ias bonus from dual-wielding, and an extra 10CC. no to mention the 300/300dex/vit bonuses it could offer.
The portrait of demonhunter is shown dual wielding. It's just no usable at higher mps. due to lack of EHP/eDPS
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I said it before and I will say it again... DH only needs a boost to Multi shot so that it works like a Amazon's multi shot. It was a wonderful crowd AOE and made them a really good class for PVE. right now the skill is broken.

with current changes to monster density this seems like a logical choice also..

also.. Moo, moo, moo moo moo. Moo


Hi knoland and thank you for your response,
I agree 100%. Although i believe other skills should be changed for the better of eDPS efficiency as well. Otherwise everyone would be using multi-shot. I use multi-shot and i also use lighting ball, just to change it up sometimes. I think an across the board change is important to implement.

What do you think about this idea:
If bola shot crit on impact, it penetrates?
making rapid fire penetrate 100% (like wizards arcane beam)
and do you have any thoughts on passives?

Thanks for your reply again!
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Hi bearr and thank you for your response.
What do you think about my idea for Dual-Wielding being the forth spot added for archery?

DUAL-WIELD USERS: 7CC, 5%IAS, 5% Bonus to Life this will help dual-wield users be viable, since everyone is forced to use dead mans legacy, since it offers 5% more ias than the 15%ias bonus from dual-wielding, and an extra 10CC. no to mention the 300/300dex/vit bonuses it could offer.
The portrait of demonhunter is shown dual wielding. It's just no usable at higher mps. due to lack of EHP/eDPS


So, if I understand, Archery would have a bonus is you use 1 1hbow, a bow, a 2hbow, and now another category for dual wielding? That would work I guess. The problem with this is that the gameplay would be the same. If after calculting on D3up dualwielding with your bonus, you realize that the bonus gives you more DPS and life than with a calamity/dead man's legacy, everyone would drop those for a danetta's set, or danetta's spite with calamity. You have to be careful with those things, so the two even out.

An example of a different gameplay would be to be able to fire 2 arrows at the same time when you use 2 1hbows.
Edited by bearr#2157 on 4/13/2013 5:28 PM PDT
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The Nether-Tentacles idea is really awesome in my opinion.

ToC, however, will not go back to the way it was in 1.0.4. (You are mistaken in the fact that ToC did +3300% weapon damage to enemies. It was actually 1500% - the very figure you proposed.)

In patch 1.0.5, we will be fixing a bug with Trail of Cinders that is causing the rune to deal five times more damage than intended. As a result of this fix, the amount of damage done by Trail of Cinders will be reduced from its current value (1500% weapon damage over 3 seconds) to the value we originally designed for 1.0.4, which is 300% weapon damage over 3 seconds. While this bug was discovered very quickly after 1.0.4 released and is capable of being hotfixed, we didn't want to move forward with the fix without giving players proper notice.


You're thinking about the Anathema rune for Rain of Vengeance. THAT rune did +3300% weapon damage in 1.0.4.

And furthermore, in 1.0.5, the monsters were drastically weakened. Therefore, +1500% weapon damage to ToC is indeed over the top.
Edited by MimSiE#1669 on 4/13/2013 6:14 PM PDT
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The Nether-Tentacles idea is really awesome in my opinion.

ToC, however, will not go back to the way it was in 1.0.4.

In patch 1.0.5, we will be fixing a bug with Trail of Cinders that is causing the rune to deal five times more damage than intended. As a result of this fix, the amount of damage done by Trail of Cinders will be reduced from its current value (1500% weapon damage over 3 seconds) to the value we originally designed for 1.0.4, which is 300% weapon damage over 3 seconds. While this bug was discovered very quickly after 1.0.4 released and is capable of being hotfixed, we didn't want to move forward with the fix without giving players proper notice.


You're thinking about the Anathema rune for Rain of Vengeance.

And furthermore, in 1.0.5, the monsters were drastically weakened. Therefore, +1500% weapon damage to ToC is indeed over the top.


HI Mimsie thanks for your reply,
I was incorrect in my values. ToC should be readjust to 510% weapon dmg. I will make those changes in my initial post.
Edited by RUNFORIT#1236 on 4/13/2013 6:16 PM PDT
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Hi bearr,
So, if I understand, Archery would have a bonus is you use 1 1hbow, a bow, a 2hbow, and now another category for dual wielding? That would work I guess. The problem with this is that the gameplay would be the same. If after calculting on D3up dualwielding with your bonus, you realize that the bonus gives you more DPS and life than with a calamity/dead man's legacy, everyone would drop those for a danetta's set, or danetta's spite with calamity. You have to be careful with those things, so the two even out.

An example of a different gameplay would be to be able to fire 2 arrows at the same time when you use 2 1hbows.


Then pheraps the dual wielding for archery could be 70% of what i mentioned.
DUAL-WIELD USERS: 4CC, 3%IAS, 3% Bonus to Life this will help dual-wield users be viable, since everyone is forced to use dead mans legacy, since it offers 5% more ias than the 15%ias bonus from dual-wielding, and an extra 10CC. no to mention the 300/300dex/vit bonuses it could offer.
The portrait of demonhunter is shown dual wielding. It's just no usable at higher mps. due to lack of EHP/eDPS
Edited by RUNFORIT#1236 on 4/13/2013 6:19 PM PDT
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I think there are Manticores with lifesteal also. (Someone please correct me if I'm wrong... my hd that had the game on it crashed, and I think I remember seeing a couple of them on AH.) If I'm correct, it would open up a completely new build. We'd be able to ditch Shadow Form completely, which is something I've always wanted to do because I want a more offensive build. I have a few ideas in mind.
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04/13/2013 06:23 PMPosted by MimSiE
I think there are Manticores with lifesteal also. (Someone please correct me if I'm wrong... my hd that had the game on it crashed, and I think I remember seeing a couple of them on AH.) If I'm correct, it would open up a completely new build. We'd be able to ditch Shadow Form completely, which is something I've always wanted to do because I want a more offensive build. I have a few ideas in mind.


Hi again,
You are correct - there are manticores with LS, you are correct, but how would raising ToC dmg let you ditch Shadow Power? I would still need the LS, For dual-wielding the 3% bonus to life, is overall life (like amethyst in the helm)
But Shadow Power-with the gloom rune is needed for the 30% mitigation it offers. Just my opinion.
Edited by RUNFORIT#1236 on 4/13/2013 6:27 PM PDT
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Because you would be using Nether Tentacles for additional LS.

Or theoretically, you could keep Shadow Form, and receive more LS.

Like I said, these are just ideas I have floating around... not sure if they'll actually be viable.
Edited by MimSiE#1669 on 4/13/2013 6:30 PM PDT
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Because you would be using Nether Tentacles for additional LS.

Or theoretically, you could keep Shadow Form, and receive more LS.

Like I said, these are just ideas I have floating around... not sure if they'll actually be viable.


ooooo talking about nether tentacles i see.

I would still need the damage mitigation that gloom offers, that's just me though :)
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Well I get pretty big crits from Spike Trap and Cluster Arrow (620k avg for spike trap, 500k avg for cluster arrow iirc... has been a few weeks since I last played my DH.) I'd have to check it out next week when I get my new hard drive.
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kinda depressing to see DH have no idea what actually plague their class... if you look at the high end builds of every class, you will find that it's not the dps you do on paper, it's the buffs you can get. DH cant buff for ****... every single class have very sizable and stackable buffs they can wear.. the only one DH can wear is gloom? where is the demonhunter version of WotB? archon? gruesome feast? cyclone? etc... i'm not talking about the piddly stuff like archery, or limited use stuff like steady aim or the useless sharpshooter.... i'm talking about real sustainable uber buffs that other class "CAN" achieve.

DH are weak because they have no REAL buffs to boost their dps.... i mean what bothers me the most in a high MP run is most DH don't even use mark for death... yah it wont help you much in solo, but do you know how much MFD is worth to the group when you have 0dog WD, HotA barbs, bell monks or CM meteor wizzys dropping huge bombs centered around 1 location? MILLIONS of dps is lost from the lack of MFD...

people need to stop looking at sheet dps and start looking at the yellow numbers that fly around when doing MP8+ heck i'm all for changing MFD into some kind of an AoE explosive palm :D that should EASILY justify the current lack of eDPS that plague the DH. even something as simple as exalted soul type buff that gives LARGE increase in hatred/disc pool/regen would help somewhat with the eDPS of DH...

i don't even play a DH, but i feel like i'm carrying DH around when i'm in MP8+ so I want to see them fixed one way or another.
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04/13/2013 06:32 PMPosted by MimSiE
Well I get pretty big crits from Spike Trap and Cluster Arrow (620k avg for spike trap, 500k avg for cluster arrow iirc... has been a few weeks since I last played my DH.) I'd have to check it out next week when I get my new hard drive.


Monks crit for 1-2 millions...
DHs need help with eDPS, but how? what can be done! suggestions?
Edited by RUNFORIT#1236 on 4/13/2013 7:32 PM PDT
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Agree with the OP 100%

One suggestion I have in regards to the passive Sharp shooter:

Instead of adding crit chance, make it so you have a chance to fire multiple arrows at the same time.

Could very well be considered OP, but would be an interesting mechanic nonetheless.
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