Diablo® III

Patch 1.08 & the concerns with changes to demonhunter

Cluster bomb should do 5-600% damage as should spike trap.

Chakram is weak too. Twin chakram should be doing at least 200% damage. The spinning shuriken cloud should give at least 100% damage per second if not more.

Grenades need a huge boost too. 216% damage for the big exploding one.

Rain of vengeance needs to do at least double damage.

And please buff the wolf pet to do 3x more damage that crits, with 3x as much hp!
Edited by DeadDragon#1455 on 4/13/2013 8:18 PM PDT
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my personal record on 0dog build is 2.4 million crit. why/how? gruesome feast + soul harvest + slam dance + stone of jordan

w/o the buffs my crits are around 700k... it's not the dps, it's the buff multipliers that makes you strong. the problem with DH is they have no buffs they can use to more then double or triple their dps output. it's not the sheet dps. stop looking at that useless number. you think sheet dps is what got a HotA barb to 3mil+ crits? no. it's the other buffs + WotB they are wearing that's multiplying their skorn dps to that level.
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DH has possibly the most types of buffs at once. If you must face tank, try standing in

Caltrop (60% slow) | Bait the Trap (+10% CHC)
Sentry (175% dmg) | Guardian Turret (15% DR)
Shadow Power (15% LS) | Gloom (35% DR)

Starting firing

Bola Shot (110% AoE) | Bitter Pill (Restore desc)
Spike Trap (275% AoE) | Echoing Blast (x3)

Vault to safety and repeat.

The problem is more fundamental than anything else. An arrow will never inflict the same amount of impact as a melee weapon on the target, that's both physically and mentally. However, the amount of arrows add up (as the DH attacks begin) while barb and monk are making the run to take the abuse in melee range in order to land their blows.
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Ball lighting (since it is slower +.02)
155 to 310%

Ball of lightning is one of the strongest skills in the game at times. It has huge area and will hit massive enemies considerably more than the average used to compute the tooltip. Attack speed also seems to make it hit more often during the flight on top of allowing you to shoot it more often. When thrown into missile dampening even a few will kill any stationary elite as they will give off hits for well over 10 seconds. The cost is also low enough that with a bat and regeneration gear you can stand shooting it off for quite a long time. There is a reason why it is one of the most used Demon Hunter skills. Let us not forget the added bonus of life steal applying when it is fired so even if shadow power expires it will keep stealing life for the duration.

With your proposed buff it would become crazily powerful. Anything massive would be trashed effortlessly and anything with missile dampening is even more of a joke. If you buff damage like that you will need to nerf area a tad so it is more comparable to the other skills and less prone to multiple hitting the same target.

Strafe 12 hatred to 10 hatred
156 to 281%

Strafe is already strong enough. With a decent 60k DPS find build you can face tank everything in MP2. As long as strafe is active, it will life steal at the rate you had when cast. This means all you need to do is cast shadow power once and you can have near indefinite life steal as long as you have the hatred (which you can easily get permanent strafe builds). Raise damage to the 150k area and you can plough through MP3 killing stuff without ever stopping moving. Let us not forget you can use skills like fan of knives without interrupting strafe for when you need that extra damage.

If damage was to be buffed like that you would need to make each shot check life steal to encourage the user to blow more shadow power (discipline) or to raise hatred cost a tad so maintaining it permanently is not as easy.

Multishot 30hatred to 22 hatred
165 to 267%
rune-full broadside 215 to 410%

It is already a highly usable skill. In low monster powers you can flash down virtually every high density white mob with a single shot. I agree that a hatred reduction cost on the normal variety is needed and that a tiny damage boost would be ok but adding nearly two thirds more damage is too much in my opinion.

as you can clearly see. they all only use ONE hatred spender because on hardcore, we can't survive w/o using 4 discipline defensive skills.(which is fine, if hatred spenders did higher weapon%)

All classes should only ever have 1 main resource spender. Anything more is a waste of skills as you will only ever have enough resources to maintain one spender. With my SC Demon Hunter I went guided arrow for generation and Strafe for ploughing through mobs. With my HC Demon Hunter I went Bola Shot for generation and Spiked Trap Echoing Blast for damage. I never have enough hatred to use two spenders as if I had that hatred I would just spam the same spender more.

My Monk (retired from DH play for a while) also uses only 1 spender, Wave of Light. Of course all his skills do cost spirit but these costs are setup or maintenance costs and can be ignored as far as overall spirit spending goes. When I have Spirit I spend it on Wave of Light. Even if I had Cyclone Strike I would probably still spend it on Wave of Light in most situations unless enemies are spread out.

A big problem with most Demon Hunters I see is they are highly glass cannon orientated. They are often forced to run because an elite decides to melee them rather than because they are about to be nuked by Frozen Orbs or some other nasty affix. With 15% Life Steal and nearly constant damage reduction there is no real excuse to have to move all the time.

Never under estimate the power of 3 rocket firing sentries and echoing blast spiked traps. I use that build in HC and even with sub 20k damage it can easily kill MP1 monsters. Combined with a shield (yes a shield), a boar and perfectionist passive with Shadow Power Gloom for those tough situations I am not going to die any time soon.

My account is on Europe. Never really had top end gear but I have enough experience with all classes to know what I am talking about.
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Well I get pretty big crits from Spike Trap and Cluster Arrow (620k avg for spike trap, 500k avg for cluster arrow iirc... has been a few weeks since I last played my DH.) I'd have to check it out next week when I get my new hard drive.


Monks crit for 1-2 millions...
DHs need help with eDPS, but how? what can be done! suggestions?


I'm aware of that... my HotA Barbarian crits 1.4 million avg.

As for ideas on how to increase eDPS, you could try changing some of the Crit Passives (like SharpShooter) to give 1% CHD per 100 points of Dexterity. My DH has a little over 3000 dexterity, so that would give me an extra 30% CHD. Because as it stands right now, I feel more powerful without it than with it. (And I can almost reach 250k dps with it, because I've tried it out of interest to see how high my DPS goes.)
Edited by MimSiE#1669 on 4/14/2013 5:01 AM PDT
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I have read this post, and I have some insight.

Status 100Paragon DH, hours play over 1,500 on main which is my honorable dh.

I have succesfully maintained hatred and discipline cost for survivability on higher MP up to Solo MP9 for farming.

I can't solo Ubers higher than mp5.

Survivability of Dh Is lowest in realm.

DPS has become even amongst classes with maybe at highest 15% difference above for DH. Why is it that DH still take a 30% dmg handicap?

To add to this tremendous Handicap at higher MP levels, DH can only LifeSteal from Weapon.
This crushes Itemization for DH.

Barbs get Ik Belt for LS, other classes itemization even with legendaries are better with LS.

Suggestion give the class (Hint DH) that takes 30% more dmg, various combos on LS items.
Dead Mans Legacy, Nat gear set Bonus, Etc....

Tanks taking 30% less dmg, do not need various LS variations, Characters (Hint DH) need LS variations from Items.
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04/13/2013 08:14 PMPosted by coolvi
The problem is more fundamental than anything else. An arrow will never inflict the same amount of impact as a melee weapon on the target, that's both physically and mentally. However, the amount of arrows add up (as the DH attacks begin) while barb and monk are making the run to take the abuse in melee range in order to land their blows.


Arrows hit one target. All melee attack works as small AoE damage spell. You can hit more than one target most of the time. This is the reason why melee attack work through wall (elite affix), AoE damage work through wall.
They should buff any projectiles skills(for other classes too) to take that in account. Impale, for example, could get a buff to damage expect for over penetration which good enough and are not one target skill.
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Id love to see some CC bonus for dual wield.
I can crit at 760k with my danettas spite and a 100% emerald, only 640k with the DML.
I like the DML for the extra 9.5% CC so I tend to use it more.

Id also like to see our pets get a decent buff of some sort, the rez buff could use an upgrade,
and the regen bonus on the boar is almost worthless 155, seriously...

Those freaking WD zombie dogs bug the hell out of me playing pvp,
we should get a pack of boars or wolves.

Im thinking a passive bonus could give us extra pets buff.

3 spiders
3 bats
3 boars
3 wolves
6 ferrets
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DH has possibly the most types of buffs at once. If you must face tank, try standing in

Caltrop (60% slow) | Bait the Trap (+10% CHC)
Sentry (175% dmg) | Guardian Turret (15% DR)
Shadow Power (15% LS) | Gloom (35% DR)

Starting firing

Bola Shot (110% AoE) | Bitter Pill (Restore desc)
Spike Trap (275% AoE) | Echoing Blast (x3)

Vault to safety and repeat.

The problem is more fundamental than anything else. An arrow will never inflict the same amount of impact as a melee weapon on the target, that's both physically and mentally. However, the amount of arrows add up (as the DH attacks begin) while barb and monk are making the run to take the abuse in melee range in order to land their blows.


lets analyze those buffs

caltrop bait the trap 6 sec 10%CC = very nice. lets hope nightstalker holds out for you on this and gloom. also really depends on what other multipliers you have stacked to take advantage of that extra 10% of CC if you have 400%+ CD and 3500+ dex it should yield some good yellow numbers

sentry guardian turret. not sure why you even mentioned the dmg on a single target slow autoshooting turret.... whats the most you gonna see out of that single shot? 80k? :D as compared to the 2 to 3 million AoE crit from a barb it's really not worth mentioning. the defense buff is nice but it wont add to your yellow numbers.

shadow power. pure defensive buff. no yellow number boosting ability at all.. not really part of the "eDPS problem" discussion.

bola. 110% freebie skill. nuf said. unless that bola is going to start spamming out lightening tornados that help regen your hatred and disc... it's not really part of the "eDPS problem" discussion.

spike trap echoing blast. not a bad skill. one of the most promising skills for a DH. kinda like the wizzy explosive blast - chain reaction except DH lack the "CM buff" to sustain it. a CM wiz can spam that all day as long as there are mobs around. same cant be said of the DH due to a "lack of buff" to sustain that skill.

there is no rule hard coded into the game that says arrow can not crit for 3mil+ i distinctly remember seeing some decent numbers from cluster bombs back in the day before everyone else gained huge numbers. it's the math behind it. the lack of real buffs to multiply those numbers is what kills the eDPS of DH.
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The OPs formatting makes my eyes bleed.
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+1
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+1
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+1
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Anyways,
Does anyone have any constructive feedback? Any other ideas? What does everyone think about my Passive dual-wield suggestion?

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Archery passive
1 hand users 10cc
2 hand xbow 50%CD
Bow 15% increased damage to 25% increased damage
DUAL-WIELD USERS: 7CC, 5%IAS, 5% Bonus to Life this will help dual-wield users be viable, since everyone is forced to use dead mans legacy, since it offers 5% more ias than the 15%ias bonus from dual-wielding, and an extra 10CC. no to mention the 300/300dex/vit bonuses it could offer.
The portrait of demonhunter is shown dual wielding. It's just no usable at higher mps. due to lack of EHP/eDPS


Your idea for a passive is stupid. DW was competitive with SW pre - 1.04. Then legendaries were buffed and 2 items made DW useless - Manticore and DML.

Why the hell would blizzard ever fix an imbalance caused by 2 items with a passive? The next round of items/legendaries could easily return the balance like how it was pre 1.04 and then DW would be extremely overpowered compared to SW.
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Doombringer? why was your comment deleted? you have good ideas.
Here is my favorite idea doombrringer had

~Steady Aim: As long as there are no enemies within 10 yards, all damage is increased by 20%. If an enemy comes within 10 yards of you, Steam Aim will persist for another second.


Keep em coming!


~Steady Aim
As long as there are no enemies within 10 yards, all damage is increased by 20%. If an enemy comes within 10 yards of you, evasion is increased by 20%.

~Marked for Death
Cost: 3 Discipline
Marks an enemy. The marked enemy will take 20% additional damage for the next 30 seconds.

~Sentry
Cost: 20 Hatred
Cooldown: 4 seconds
Drop a turret on the ground. The turret begins firing at nearby enemies for 100% weapon damage. (Can do critical hits. Sentry's critical chance and critical damage are equal to that of a demon hunter.) Lasts 30 seconds. You may have 2 turrets active at a time.

~Thrill of the Hunt
Every hit you make has a chance to immobilize your target for 2 seconds. A chance to immobilize is based on the weapon type of your main hand weapon:
Bow: 18%
Crossbow: 20%
Hand Crossbow: 16%
Edited by Exige#2248 on 4/23/2013 3:52 PM PDT
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+1
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Cluster bomb should do 5-600% damage as should spike trap.

Chakram is weak too. Twin chakram should be doing at least 200% damage. The spinning shuriken cloud should give at least 100% damage per second if not more.

Grenades need a huge boost too. 216% damage for the big exploding one.

Rain of vengeance needs to do at least double damage.

And please buff the wolf pet to do 3x more damage that crits, with 3x as much hp!


Chakrams could use a buff of about 50% additional damage for each rune.

Grenades need a reduced spread which will make them more effective against single targets, especially at range. Your suggestion for Fire Bomb sounds about right.

I think RoV is okay, but it would be nice if all runes followed you (i.e. - Dark Cloud still seeks out targets, all others hover over or strike in front of your character even while you are moving).

Spider should drop or shoot webs on the ground to slow enemies, Bats should regen 6 hatred per second, the Boar should regen 2% life per second, Ferrets should increase pickup radius by 7 yards, the Wolf should enrage with each attack gaining 10% damage per attack up to 50% extra.
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