Diablo® III

New Firebats are awesome!

Check out this Mp10 ghom kill - 7.5s anyone?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gehsVsOR1-Q

Note that this isn't as simple as it looks, some strategy involved there, charging up cob before ghom walks into it is part of it (dat scoundrel blind :D). Anyway, 18.3mil dps. Even best barbs can't do it that fast.


Nice !!!
i have a felling that they will reduce the damage because it`s to good to be true :D
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^ Don't think they will. Using Ghom to measure worth is like asking Mum to write a note excusing you from class. Sure, you may get away with it, but no one gives a sh!t.
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Looks like a lot of effort to get it setup. Soul harvest max charged, 0dog to get gruesome feast charged then weapon switch and wait for ghom while you charge CoB. Is the precharge on CoB helping more than the lost gruesome feast charges half way through though?
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Cob snapshots gruesome charges, so as you can see, there are 10mil crits even at the end of fight, when GF charges are gone.
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wow incredible.
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Is it possible for someone to give some real numbers here?

Can someone do 5-10 VotA runs with Bats vs Bears? Or Keep 1-3?

Static numbers can look great - ask a Sharpshooter. But how does it actually play out?
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Btw aeria, i think your video will:

1) drive down prices of mana reduction bats items (who needs them when you only need to channel for 7 secs!!)

2) make blizzard tweak the damage output (10M crit damage!!)

just to add, love your vids aerial. very instructive. in fact i transferred your skill build and tested it out in the current unchanged patch and it works very decently. Only tweaked it a little to provide more mana to sustain the CoB since damage is much lower and still needs to channel for a long while.
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Is it possible for someone to give some real numbers here?

Can someone do 5-10 VotA runs with Bats vs Bears? Or Keep 1-3?

Static numbers can look great - ask a Sharpshooter. But how does it actually play out?


I have uploaded vota run, posted in this thread, there is plenty of bears vota runs on my yt channel. Overall cob is faster, difference is significant in killing elitepacks (drop from like 23-25s average to 15s average per pack).
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Is it possible for someone to give some real numbers here?

Can someone do 5-10 VotA runs with Bats vs Bears? Or Keep 1-3?

Static numbers can look great - ask a Sharpshooter. But how does it actually play out?


Overall cob is faster, difference is significant in killing elitepacks (drop from like 23-25s average to 15s average per pack).


Damn. Solid numbers.
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Tried some runs with plague of bats.
Range is nice, consistent healing is nice, you can tank some incredible stuff with this skill if you have good gear and 6ls. Like literally standing on 3 desacrators, arcane beams in plague pools.. It might be popular in hc mode I guess.
For damage, it loses to cob though.
But plague of bats vs bears, I'd say they are close.
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Tried some runs with plague of bats.
Range is nice, consistent healing is nice, you can tank some incredible stuff with this skill if you have good gear and 6ls. Like literally standing on 3 desacrators, arcane beams in plague pools.. It might be popular in hc mode I guess.
For damage, it loses to cob though.
But plague of bats vs bears, I'd say they are close.


Yes, I've done 3 runs with Plague and CoB and yes, while Plague's damage is less than CoB, it's range is so much superior and it costs less mana because you don't have to constantly readjust your distance.

I also think Plague is very competitive against Bear. I am not a Bear user but I sure will use Plague. Bear needs good lining up but Plague just find an angle and spam. I think a lot of people will find Plague much easier and forgiving to use and when they fight Wall affix, they'll love Plague's ability to pierce through.

Let's put it this way. You can just use Plague as your one and only attack but you can't with CoB. You'll be killing way too slow by chasing range monsters and Elites. CoB will need another attack for range purpose (WoS?).
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SLvYHWy-p0

Ghom killed in about 25 seconds, and that's without any specialized bat gear...I reckon I'd be lucky to get 50 seconds with bears. This is a massive buff indeed, at least for bosses!
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I've just decided to try the current plague bats (not the buffed version yet) and I really like it. I can faceroll mp6 even more comfortably than with my usual acid cloud. I can't wait to test the new bats version :-)
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I managed to make PTR work again (needed reinstalling it and changing my password).

Anyway, I managed to test how the Firebats mana cost reduction works on the PTR. The channeling cost per tick is still reduced only by 1/4 of your reduction, which means a -12 cost mask will only reduce the cost per tick by 3 mana. Furthermore, the same item only gave me a 2 mana reduction on the initial cost.

-12 mask = 218 mana initial tick / 30 mana channeling ticks
blood ritual + pierce the veil = 253 mana initial tick / 38 mana channeling ticks
blood ritual + pierce the veil -12 mask = 251 mana initial tick / 35 mana channeling ticks

so the formula

cost per channeling tick = (tooltip channeling / 2) * (1 + (pierce the veil/100) - (blood ritual/100)) - (sum of resource cost reduction/4)

is correct
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Thanks for the update Nubtro. :)

And is this for Cloud of Bats? Or all new Firebats runes?
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I managed to make PTR work again (needed reinstalling it and changing my password).

Anyway, I managed to test how the Firebats mana cost reduction works on the PTR. The channeling cost per tick is still reduced only by 1/4 of your reduction, which means a -12 cost mask will only reduce the cost per tick by 3 mana. Furthermore, the same item only gave me a 2 mana reduction on the initial cost.

-12 mask = 218 mana initial tick / 30 mana channeling ticks
blood ritual + pierce the veil = 253 mana initial tick / 38 mana channeling ticks
blood ritual + pierce the veil -12 mask = 251 mana initial tick / 35 mana channeling ticks

so the formula

cost per channeling tick = (tooltip channeling / 2) * (1 + (pierce the veil/100) - (blood ritual/100)) - (sum of resource cost reduction/4)

is correct


Can you confirm that the initial mana cost is 220?
Because I'm getting 221 for the initial mana cost.

These are my record viewing frame by frame

Max mana ..... Initial cost ..... First tick
740mana ...... 519 mana ...... 486 mana ( 1.00aps, 45 mana regen, 0 firebat reduction )

845mana ...... 626mana ...... 595 mana ( 1.00aps, 45 mana regen, -9 firebat reduction)

I agree on the mana reduction when channeling which is 1/4.
But It seems like the initial cost is 221 mana and maybe the reduction of initial cost is also 1/4?

Wish I had some more reduction gear to test. -12 or -20 would be easier than -9. which gives me 2.25 reduction.

Also, when does the mana regen and mana cost tick happens?
Mana regen tick seems to happen every 6 frames but not sure if it is counted from frame 0 when you click the skill.
As for mana cost tick, it seems like it happens every 30 frames after the initial tick which occurs at frame 10 or so. So it will occur at frame 40, 70, 100 and so on.
Is this correct?
Edited by dave0130#1272 on 5/4/2013 8:11 PM PDT
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I agree with some of your findings.

When I was trying to measure the cost of bears, I ran into this problem of, "It does not make sense, given the evidence, the cost of this bear."

With bears I saw:
Ptv + Blood Ritual: 140 * 1.3 - 140*0.15 = 161 mana cost.
Ptv + Blood Ritual -10 SoJ: 140 * 1.3 - 140*0.15 - 10 cost to Zombie bears = 150 mana per bear.
Ptv + Blood Ritual -22 SoJ: 140 * 1.3 - 140*0.15 - 22 cost to Zombie bears = 139 mana per bear.

I assume firebats are the same.
220 * 0.15 - cost = initial cost
66 * 0.15 - cost = channelling cost.

A friend had a lot of mana regen and couldn't match those equations with visual evidence for mana cost because, perhaps, the mana regen occurs more quickly than we can see on screen.
Edited by MCP#1477 on 5/4/2013 10:11 PM PDT
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is no one talking about vampire bats? It's the one thing I am fired up for, considering I don't use an LS main weapon.

Right now I intend to sit at 300k dps and stack a very good amount of EHP and run vampire bats over bears with no other changes to my build (grasp of the dead over vengeful spirit, however). I figure most mobs I don't need to kite so that initial cost won't be much of an issue while the channeling will be nice.
Edited by Rakimallah#1875 on 5/5/2013 2:52 PM PDT
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I'm excited to try out all the bats changes (but not excited enough to download the PTR Client :P).

Plague of Bats will be the easiest for me to transition to, as I'm always trying to corner up to funnel my bears. I can often get all three bears to hit a single target with a little micro, and almost always get at least two of the three to hit most of my targets. I foresee myself doing more damage to more targets with PoB on average compared to bear funneling.

Cloud of Bats is already decent in open areas when you're surrounded; I am looking forward to doing some VotA runs with it. I'm not looking forward to fighting ranged/running/cowardly mobs with it though, hehe.

Vampire bats opens up the possibility of using my older/cheaper/more-DPS/more-EHP/non-LS Skorn, or some 1H setups. Should be interesting!

04/20/2013 06:04 AMPosted by aerial
Cob snapshots gruesome charges, so as you can see, there are 10mil crits even at the end of fight, when GF charges are gone.


Ohhhhhhhhh, very interesting!
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is no one talking about vampire bats? It's the one thing I am fired up for, considering I don't use an LS main weapon.

Right now I intend to sit at 300k dps and stack a very good amount of EHP and run vampire bats over bears with no other changes to my build (grasp of the dead over vengeful spirit, however). I figure most mobs I don't need to kite so that initial cost won't be much of an issue while the channeling will be nice.


I've thought about that myself although it will accompany my Manajuma's carving knife (930, OS, 84%, 3%). I'm not sure how much I'll be able to tank but I don't want to be getting killed a lot, so running with 5.5% LS rather than 3 should be pretty valuable for me.

At your extreme DPS though, I'd be worried about killing myself with that much leach against Reflect. At 5 charges of Gruesome Feast you must be monstrous.
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