Diablo® III

Fix Thorns

Make it damage based on weapon damage.

* Currently:
Melle attacker take X damager per hit.

* Fix:
Melle attacker take X% weapon damage damager per hit.
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90 Troll Druid
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Posts: 2,421
don't you think this game is already dependant enough on weapons?
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Posts: 2,279
Thorns damage in general is underpowered in the game and we're looking to correct that in the future. While we're discussing a number of ways to do this, the favored idea internally is to allow Thorns to benefit from your primary stat (Strength, Dexterity, or Intelligence).


I don't have a time frame that I can share, but you can read Wyatt Cheng's full response about Thorns here.
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04/19/2013 04:56 PMPosted by Grimiku
Thorns damage in general is underpowered in the game and we're looking to correct that in the future. While we're discussing a number of ways to do this, the favored idea internally is to allow Thorns to benefit from your primary stat (Strength, Dexterity, or Intelligence).


I don't have a time frame that I can share, but you can read Wyatt Cheng's full response about Thorns [url="http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7895009644#4"]here[/url].


We've been hearing that since October...
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04/19/2013 04:56 PMPosted by Grimiku
Thorns damage in general is underpowered in the game and we're looking to correct that in the future. While we're discussing a number of ways to do this, the favored idea internally is to allow Thorns to benefit from your primary stat (Strength, Dexterity, or Intelligence).


I don't have a time frame that I can share, but you can read Wyatt Cheng's full response about Thorns [url="http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7895009644#4"]here[/url].


No, the fix is just remove it completely from the game. Even if with 30x damage multiplier on it, thorns is still useless. With it gone we'd have a better chance of rolling decent items since its one less p.o.s affix that could ruin it.
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04/19/2013 05:15 PMPosted by Wachati


I don't have a time frame that I can share, but you can read Wyatt Cheng's full response about Thorns [url="http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7895009644#4"]here[/url].


We've been hearing that since October...


Make a screen cap! you will use it in.... 2014 April...say sentence only add 2012....
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Posts: 4,873
"Benefit" how exactly?

By simply adding the number of primary stat? Or percentage of it (so primary stat % multiplied by thorns).

Anyways, besides getting rid of the affix entirely why not make thorns deal a % of your base unbuffed dps (of buffed, though I'd test that).
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If you go near perfect thorns on everything you'll maybe hit 30k. Add in the barb rune to give you 50% more and you'll probably have close to 50k. Don't forget the sacrifices you take to get 50k thorns (only 1 specific class can get there mind you).

It would be far simpler to just have each piece of armor give you a % of your sheet damage. Extremities should give like 10% and chest legs maybe 15-20. So that with a little bit of selection you can have 50-75% of your sheet damage on hit.

You won't be hitting 300k dps with thorns wasting slots so you'd probably be looking at 200k tops. It's really not a big deal if monsters get hit with 100-150k every time they hit you. Of course reflect damage might have to be modified but otherwise should work just fine.

Imagine that .... you see a plague boss and you're thinking hell yea! I will pop my fetish army so he takes 9x 100k for every second the army stands in the poison. Suddenly thorns seems reasonable. Until then.... how about you prevent thorns items from dropping (reroll all thorns as different stat)?
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04/19/2013 04:24 PMPosted by Lovelykitty
don't you think this game is already dependant enough on weapons?


That could be fixed by simply allowing any facet of a gem to be used for any slot. Of course, that would necessitate them doing something about the trifecta, and making other affixes worthwhile, so that every single gem isn't a ruby or emerald aimed at min/max damage and crit damage.

Would probably have to rebalance the mainstats, and most definitely %Life and LoH, at the least, since thorns would more than likely have to be reworked even if weapon damage was the way they went forward with it.
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04/19/2013 05:27 PMPosted by INJEKT
No, the fix is just remove it completely from the game. Even if with 30x damage multiplier on it, thorns is still useless. With it gone we'd have a better chance of rolling decent items since its one less p.o.s affix that could ruin it.


Nah, make thorns an ability on shields only. That does say 100%-200% of your sheet dps each time you block an attack. And make w passive for it to work on ranged attacks too and all good. Of you can make it work for every attack that hits you when you wear a shield. That might be a little OP but it'd make thorns actually good.
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04/19/2013 06:46 PMPosted by Glythe
If you go near perfect thorns on everything you'll maybe hit 30k.


How are you figuring that? The devs say it will benefit from your primary stat, as in the same type of multiplier that you get for your normal damage. A moderate effort could probably get base 10K dam from thorns... and if you've got 2500 primary stat that's 250K upon getting hit.. will their be critical hits on thorns? Thats 1 milllion damage upon getting hit if you've got a total of 10K dam from thorns and 2500 base stat (and 400% crit dam)
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04/19/2013 04:56 PMPosted by Grimiku
Thorns damage in general is underpowered in the game and we're looking to correct that in the future. While we're discussing a number of ways to do this, the favored idea internally is to allow Thorns to benefit from your primary stat (Strength, Dexterity, or Intelligence).


I don't have a time frame that I can share, but you can read Wyatt Cheng's full response about Thorns [url="http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7895009644#4"]here[/url].


The whole idea is dumb. When 66% of the classes do their damnedest not to get hit.
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04/19/2013 07:34 PMPosted by Venaliter
When 66% of the classes do their damnedest not to get hit.

two thirds of 5?

2/3 * 5 = 3 1/3

I'm curious which class has one thirds of it trying not to get hit, while the other two thirds is...

¯\(º_o)/¯
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fix thorns by making it a life steal thing.

ie: 50% of the damage dealt by thorns is converted to life.
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If you go near perfect thorns on everything you'll maybe hit 30k. Add in the barb rune to give you 50% more and you'll probably have close to 50k. Don't forget the sacrifices you take to get 50k thorns (only 1 specific class can get there mind you).

It would be far simpler to just have each piece of armor give you a % of your sheet damage. Extremities should give like 10% and chest legs maybe 15-20. So that with a little bit of selection you can have 50-75% of your sheet damage on hit.

You won't be hitting 300k dps with thorns wasting slots so you'd probably be looking at 200k tops. It's really not a big deal if monsters get hit with 100-150k every time they hit you. Of course reflect damage might have to be modified but otherwise should work just fine.

Imagine that .... you see a plague boss and you're thinking hell yea! I will pop my fetish army so he takes 9x 100k for every second the army stands in the poison. Suddenly thorns seems reasonable. Until then.... how about you prevent thorns items from dropping (reroll all thorns as different stat)?


according to http://www.diablohub.com/guides/diablo-3-item-stat-maximum-values/ its 21,116 with shield, but lets take the most common situational use of this affix(if anyone were to ever use it): 2h or dw. that gives us 18.752k dmg . We'll take upper end of a random characters primary stat, and define it as 3333. 625.00k dmg reflected/incoming hit.

I'm sure this seems like a lot to some of you, but now consider enemy attack speed is typically less than 1.5seconds/attack. and now consider that in the case of some really stupid AI enemies like ghom, that he spends half the battle circling a melee character instead of attacking, or that the most common reaction of most ranged enemies when neared by characters is to run away (in other words time spent not attacking). and THEN, in the case of monks/dh split that number in half due to dodge and for the others maybe 1/5th due to dodge.

this number is quickly diminishing. just get rid of the affix
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Look, just get rid of it.

It was a stupid idea since minute 0. Thorns simply do not work in D3. I know you guys are very proud of WoW and all that, but just because a mechanic worked reasonably well there, it does not mean it will work there.

In D3, some classes are all about hitting while not getting hit. The rest are about hitting them more than they hit you. Simply put, in the whole scheme of this game there is NO room for such things as thorns.
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Thorns is a broken mechanic...think from a Monk's POV, your entire defense is based off DODGING (aka not getting hit at all)...what in D3 universe would be enough to entice a MONK to want to get hit and how would u achieve it (since DEX our main stat naturally stacks up and ups our DODGE chance)?
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nerf thorns not WOTB
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04/20/2013 09:13 AMPosted by Supes
Thorns is a broken mechanic...think from a Monk's POV, your entire defense is based off DODGING (aka not getting hit at all)...what in D3 universe would be enough to entice a MONK to want to get hit and how would u achieve it (since DEX our main stat naturally stacks up and ups our DODGE chance)?

Very true regarding the desire for dodge amongst monks. I won't go out of my way to let myself get hit unless thorns somehow becomes extremely OP. I do, however, like the idea of punishing enemies for even trying to attack me. I'm not sure if thorns benefit from LS, but if it does, a thorns/backlash build could potentially be a lot of fun for someone who has sufficient EHP & sustain.
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