Diablo® III

WotB and Archon - Whack Attack

Items are the most important aspect in an ARPG, everyone knows that. So I want to see my character looking fresh in his gear, not some over-sized Dragon Ball-Z douche. I'm not sure why skills like WotB and Archon were implemented into this game. This isn't Devil May Cry or God of War. We don't need a "super transformation" mode. Everything about WotB goes against the ARPG genre, the main reason being is its cooldown, which could be an entirely different discussion. Cooldowns in an ARPG? Dafuque?

On top of that, the devs talk about how they don't want to put certain things into the game because they don't want it to end up feeling like a burden. Well I play a Barbarian, and I can say that WotB (while fairly simple to keep up at higher MP's) is the biggest burden in the game (along with the Archon ability I'm assuming). WotB is so effective that anyone that's not using it is waisting time and missing out on the benefits of higher difficulties. It's fair to say that WotB is a requirement for all Barbarians.

Quickly sprinting from mob to mob while ignoring all items that drop with the exception of legendaries isn't everyones preferred play style. I know it's not mine. Currently, I use a build that incorporates Leap for illusiveness, Rend, and HotA with no WotB for MP5-8 key runs and group play. I love this build. In fact, it's the reason I haven't switched classes yet. My gear isn't terrible by any means, and my life is above average. But in order for me to complete MP10 content with this build, I have to spend billions and billions of gold on upgrades. Billions I say! Which would be fine if it meant I couldn't do MP10 by simply switching one skill. You're ability to complete a high difficulty shouldn't be determined by one skill, if balance is a priority, which happens to be Blizzard's favorite word. Sure, I may be able complete MP10 Ubers by swapping out a couple of passives and a set of skills, but why would I switch 2 passives and a skill and lose DPS when I can just swap out one skill.

Nerfing WotB wouldn't help anything either. If WotB was nerfed, at least a nerf to its ability to be perma-casted, would make gearing the Barbarian the most expensive by a long shot. If you're gonna tweek with WotB, you have to be careful about it. Where they went wrong was the day they decided to put ridiculously powerful skills in the game with a 2 minute cooldown. Then adding ways for those skills to be perma-casted was whammy #2.

I know this is something that can't be addressed, as my complaint is over something that is more or less set in stone so to speak. But can you at least change the animation from that giant clown to maybe a larger sized version of our character?
Edited by Spookay#1939 on 4/11/2013 10:53 AM PDT
04/11/2013 10:49 AMPosted by Spookay
Items are the most important aspect in an ARPG, everyone knows that.


i beg to differ

gold is now (in d3's case)
+1 Completely agree. To summarize for you.

1) Cooldowns do not feel right.
2) Ability to reset cooldowns feels even more wrong.
3) Adding overpowered transformation to certain classes is bad design.
4) Ohh well, its in the game now.
Great post OP. enjoy the honesty. Most barbs won't admit how OP and mandatory Wotb is. And it makes you rush they the game not picking up rares
i liked them =(

i wish i had something like that, the closest i can get is shadow power which doesnt last long and is not as cool nor as effective.
still a must have lol, since everything we have is really bad
Bump
+1
Bump
04/11/2013 11:24 AMPosted by lysergia
Great post OP. enjoy the honesty. Most barbs won't admit how OP and mandatory Wotb is. And it makes you rush they the game not picking up rares

I dont think so. Many of the barb players know pretty well what burden WotB can be. And it can be just as frustrating, because in situations where you cant keep it up, places with low mob density, and suddenly you HAVE to face that one mob with jailer, frozen, arcane, plague ... but your Berzerker still needs some 120 sec. before you can get it. Berzerker is also FORCING you literaly to rush from mob to mob so you dont run out of fury and time. The worst of all is, its an button smasher now ... which makes it even more difficult to keep it up. And it is really an very stupid skill for party play. YOu rush forward, ahead of the people, if the party is doing high DPS, you have trouble to keep it up, then you face mobs where you dont have it ready etc. and so on ...

Honestly? As a DIE HARD Barb player, I would rather see it GO completely, BUT with a buff to other skills and a slight rework to barbs because the Berzerker is the only skill we barbs have to avoid CC effects. No other skill can get you out of beeing frozen or in Jailer! And you have NO chance to avoid nightmarish - thats REALLY bad design in my eyes. Seriously? One skill to avoid it all? But 2 min cooldown time ... wow Blizz ...

Playing the barb can give you a lot of options, and it can be very powerfull. IF you can keep up WotB. But if not ... yeah well. Game can be very tedious with some of the CC effects by mobs, watching your character runing away half of the time and the one beeing frozen (I exagerate a little but you get the picture ...).

No sir. WotB does NOT make everything better. It IS very powerfull and fun, if it works well for you. But that is the problem. Its for many a mandatory skill ... I know it must sound like whining, but really its not meant as that, I am well aware that some builds and classes have it much worse. But just because they have to suffer more doesnt mean the Barb has no issues as class. Thats like saying everything in Europe or the US would be perfect because Somalia is worse. OK.

If you ask me? Give ALL classes a similar skill. Make it easier to keep it up ONCE you can keep it up (trough gear maybe). Why should characters not feel powerfull with the right gear? If people believe its to easy, why dont they remove some of the gear then? Why dont they play Inferno mp10 only with Blue items?
Edited by CrniVuk#2227 on 4/16/2013 1:49 PM PDT
04/16/2013 01:39 PMPosted by CrniVuk
If you ask me? Give ALL classes a similar skill. Make it easier to keep it up ONCE you can keep it up (trough gear maybe).


Every class already has a CC immunity skill. I don't think keeping it up permanently is an optimal solution. DH got nerfed into the ground because of permanent Shadow Power. A Witch Doctor able to permanently keep up Spirit Walk would be ridiculously OP.
04/16/2013 01:52 PMPosted by Taganov
If you ask me? Give ALL classes a similar skill. Make it easier to keep it up ONCE you can keep it up (trough gear maybe).


Every class already has a CC immunity skill. I don't think keeping it up permanently is an optimal solution. DH got nerfed into the ground because of permanent Shadow Power. A Witch Doctor able to permanently keep up Spirit Walk would be ridiculously OP.


Shadow Power does more than CC immunity. I've seen WD brag that they can permanent Spirit Walk when they want AND does more than CC immunity, just like Shadow Power. Otherwise I basically agree with you and the OP, though. Games with binary CC design almost always run into this problem and generally need a decent reworking to overcome it. They could start by not allowing CC to stack in an overlapping fashion and/or giving players the same CC resistance courtesy that they gave mobs.
Question OP.

you state that you don't like the style because it "forces" you to only stop for legendaries and skip rares.

So my question is exactly how many of those rare drops do you have to pick up in order to find a single item which is worth 10M+ in GAH compared to the number of legendaries you have to pick up to find a 10M+ value item?
Question OP.

you state that you don't like the style because it "forces" you to only stop for legendaries and skip rares.

So my question is exactly how many of those rare drops do you have to pick up in order to find a single item which is worth 10M+ in GAH compared to the number of legendaries you have to pick up to find a 10M+ value item?


I don't mind skipping rares, I do hate running past tombs and gems.
04/16/2013 01:39 PMPosted by CrniVuk
suddenly you HAVE to face that one mob with jailer, frozen, arcane, plague

You can use furious charge/charge to break the jailer's hold on you, don't need WotB as a crutch for that purpose anyways.

Demon Hunters can use Vault. I'm not sure what the wizard, monk or witch doctor do as far as control impairing effects immunity.
Edited by Bronkash#1965 on 4/18/2013 12:15 PM PDT
Game Designer
Posts: 46
I have a love hate relationship with Wrath and Archon for that matter. This is a topic that I felt I should at least comment on since it's come up on many occasions. There is no fundamental flaw with having a 2 minute cooldown ability that transforms your character and is really powerful, the problem is when it becomes a forgone conclusion that these AWESOME abilities are up 100% of the time and instead of being excited that they are up you are annoyed when they fall off. We have talked about what if anything we want to do with these abilities in the long term. I will say we have no short term plans to change them but we don't like that they aren't fulfilling their original purpose which is to provide a really awesome button that mixes up the tempo of combat for a small window of time.
04/19/2013 04:10 PMPosted by Travis Day
I have a love hate relationship with Wrath and Archon for that matter. This is a topic that I felt I should at least comment on since it's come up on many occasions. There is no fundamental flaw with having a 2 minute cooldown ability that transforms your character and is really powerful, the problem is when it becomes a forgone conclusion that these AWESOME abilities are up 100% of the time and instead of being excited that they are up you are annoyed when they fall off. We have talked about what if anything we want to do with these abilities in the long term. I will say we have no short term plans to change them but we don't like that they aren't fulfilling their original purpose which is to provide a really awesome button that mixes up the tempo of combat for a small window of time.


Thanks very much for replying on this issue. I think a big problem is that in a diablo game, there should never have been a 2 minute cool down skill hahaha. I want to click on monsters and make them blow up into items, not keep an eye on cooldowns for literal minutes unless there is a way to force the buff to last forever, resulting in a hugely imbalanced experience for those who have no such skills heh.
And here we gooooo.......
04/19/2013 04:10 PMPosted by Travis Day
I will say we have no short term plans to change


Epic QQ incoming
04/19/2013 04:10 PMPosted by Travis Day
I have a love hate relationship with Wrath and Archon for that matter. This is a topic that I felt I should at least comment on since it's come up on many occasions. There is no fundamental flaw with having a 2 minute cooldown ability that transforms your character and is really powerful, the problem is when it becomes a forgone conclusion that these AWESOME abilities are up 100% of the time and instead of being excited that they are up you are annoyed when they fall off. We have talked about what if anything we want to do with these abilities in the long term. I will say we have no short term plans to change them but we don't like that they aren't fulfilling their original purpose which is to provide a really awesome button that mixes up the tempo of combat for a small window of time.


So you guys are planning on nerfing WOTB. Why can't you buff everyone else especially the DHs?
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