Diablo® III

WotB and Archon - Whack Attack

You guys all seem to forgot about wizard/Dh nerfs. All the "MVP"s posting like they know any thing about the game regarding high mps. You clearly don't. Just by looking your profiles anyone can see that you only play the game to have credibility to post about classes given the fact that you all have chars of all classes but guess what, it doesn't work like that. I have yet to see a CM or MVP that has a strong char that is able to farm mp 10. That being said, I own 2 classes but my experience with them was on mp 10 strictly. SO please, begging you, do not post things about you have no experience about.
I have barb friends that are very well-geared and they know the issue. Given the fact that even without WOTB, class itself is superior to other classes in every way. I wrote it in several threads but I won't be lazy and will write one more time.

Best stat(Highest Armor)
Best set items with a BIS gloves(only class)
Only Str class hence less competition(I don't care If you come up with the 40% playerbase bs, I played the AH enough the know that barb items are so much cheaper than dex/int items)
Best attribute in the game given to barbs from both belts/passive(Everyone knows that ls is mandatory and other classes NEED to have it to survive)
You can argue whether ARCHON is overpowered or not but it's clear to me you never played archon on high mps. One word for you, it is not viable. You need absurd amounts of AR/LS to not kill yourself vs. elite packs. Go ahead roll a wizard, make it so you have enough dps for mp 10(Just for mp 10 we are talking about 5bil + AT LEAST) and try to kill an elite pack even with a ls wep. You will kill yourself instantly. I, for a fact know that lots of my wizard friends cash out/stop playing wiz solely on this particular reason. Wizard is a broken class although it seems like strong, only viable built is a melee spec for such a class that is called "WIZARD" is a joke. Go ahead and nerf cm too and watch everyone quitting Wizard because there is no other spec.
"Ruthless" passive. I have yet to see that good of a passive on other classes. 5%cc + 50%Cd ?
LOL. Only passive that is close to it is wizards "glass Cannon" and it has downsides.(It's called "glass cannon" for a reason)

The Issue is that "barb" class already is superior in every way to other classes. On top of everything that I listed, having a 100% uptime cc immunity gives them "ABSURD" advantage over the advantage they already have. Don't say that barb going to be on the same par with other classes after WOTB nerf. For such thing to happen, They would need to redesign all classes.

Dont believe me ? Go check out general chat and view profiles of those yelling "MP CARRIES". 95% of them are barbs with "Mediocre" gear yet more effective than my 15Bil+ monk. Does such a spending give me right to talk ? Yes it !@#$ing does since I put hours on this game just to feel inferior to some mediocre-geared barbs in multiplayer game.

PS : MVPs disregard this post as I don't feel like arguing anything with you given the fact that you guys are pure "trolls" that have no credibility for me.
Edited by DarkSoul#1238 on 4/20/2013 7:12 AM PDT


Changes to barb

Battle Rage: Into the Fray: Generates 5 fury, not 15.


Go troll elsewhere...
04/20/2013 05:11 AMPosted by Jt3z


My main is a Demon Hunter, and I'm trying to fight for better classes instead of constant nerfs. I don't want to see the Barbarians brought down just to make things look equal when in fact the other classes' skills and (lack of) synergy will not have changed one iota as a result of nerfing Barbarians.

You're making not only a broad generalization, but falacious one at that (and an attack that was uncalled for).
That guy is an !@# ignore him. I agree with ur post 100%


LOL bro. I'm troll ? The guy says he is owning a demon hunter claiming to know !@#$ about class yet only paragon lvl 41 with awful gear. If anything these MVPs are trolls. "Most valuable poster" should have enough experience about the game to make such bold statements otherwise no one will listen to them.

I posted on Demon hunter thread about EDPS issue and how it affects other classes in multiplayer games. I'm not asking for nerfs in general, I only want a fair game. They built the game on real money where efficiency matter yet with an awful class balance. Demon hunters/Wizards got nerfed so many times but I never seen them crying this much as barbs doing right now.
im quitting diablo 3 the minute they mess with WOTB / Archon
04/20/2013 07:38 AMPosted by Crazy
im quitting diablo 3 the minute they mess with WOTB / Archon


They can't nerf archon man. It's a well-known fact that Archon is not an "OP" spec by any means. I don't even know what these CMs are smoking.
at least..

Changes to barb

Plan 1

WOTB: Thrive on Chaos requires 50 fury per one second added.

Sprint: Run Like the Wind. Damage, procs etc remain the same, but "Movement speed reduced by 20%".

Battle Rage: Into the Fray: Generates 5 fury, not 15.

Yes, this will destroy "I can run foreeeeeeveeeeeer and nothing can touch me" barbies. and this is good. This will also nerf HotA build a little. this is good too.

after that this game will have 5 classes on more or less equal footing. not Barbs and 4 other


if that goes through i expect changes to Archon and CMWW wizzzys, and TR Monks and Zombie bear wds. Yeah. kill all the barbs workable builds and leave everyhting else. right.

this game doesnt need nerfs. it needs BUFFS to the lesser preforming classes.

I want to make this point clear. Wrath is an awesome ability, when the game first launched players used it the way it was designed to be used which was as a huge, temporary, power boost to kill a hard champ or fight a boss. The problem stems from the ability to keep it up 100% of the time. Any future change that we would consider making to either this or Archon would be focused on making these not a 100% uptime abilities. So yes as was stated above Wrath isn't the problem, Thrive on Chaos and the assist duration extending mechanic of Archon are the problems.


I disagree slightly. The issue is not the mechanic that allows them to stay up all of the time -- that's a cool way to change up a skill, which is exactly what runes should do -- the problem is that the base skill is too strong and the other runes are too weak. By taking some of the bonuses for WotB out of the base skill and incorporating them into the runes other than ToC, for example. people who want to maintain a lesser bonus all of the time to go for that, or they could choose a rune like Insanity and get vastly larger bonuses for a shorter period of time. For example,

WotB: Run Speed 20%, Crit Chance 10%, CC immunity

Insanity: Attack Speed 50%, Damage 100%

Striding Giant: Attack Speed 25%, Dodge 60%, Run Speed 35%

ToC: Make it easier to maintain, such as by allowing Fury beyond the max to still add time. Without the attack speed or dodge bonuses, it doesn't matter as much if someone maintains 100% uptime, so making it less annoying to maintain it is an attractive idea.

Caveat: The above would need to come with a general buff to Barb skill damage as this would be a massive DPS nerf vs. now.
Edited by tanis0#1871 on 4/20/2013 7:49 AM PDT

I want to make this point clear. Wrath is an awesome ability, when the game first launched players used it the way it was designed to be used which was as a huge, temporary, power boost to kill a hard champ or fight a boss. The problem stems from the ability to keep it up 100% of the time. Any future change that we would consider making to either this or Archon would be focused on making these not a 100% uptime abilities. So yes as was stated above Wrath isn't the problem, Thrive on Chaos and the assist duration extending mechanic of Archon are the problems.


I disagree slightly. The issue is not the mechanic that allows them to stay up all of the time -- that's a cool way to change up a skill, which is exactly what runes should do -- the problem is that the base skill is too strong and the other runes are too weak. By taking some of the bonuses for WotB out of the base skill and incorporating them into the runes other than ToC, for example. people who want to maintain a lesser bonus all of the time to go for that, or they could choose a rune like Insanity and get vastly larger bonuses for a shorter period of time. For example,

WotB: Run Speed 20%, Crit Chance 10%, CC immunity

Insanity: Attack Speed 50%, Damage 100%

Striding Giant: Attack Speed 25%, Dodge 60%, Run Speed 35%

ToC: Make it easier to maintain, such as by allowing Fury beyond the max to still add time. Without the attack speed or dodge bonuses, it doesn't matter as much if someone maintains 100% uptime, so making it less annoying to maintain it is an attractive idea.

Caveat: The above would need to come with a general buff to Barb skill damage as this would be a massive DPS nerf vs. now.


i actuailly like this. and TBH i wouldnt mind a bottom end dps nerf. i dont think its right that barbs are dropping 15m into low end gear and farming trash on MP10. a low end damage nerf would give a greater curve on DPS to gear.
Diablo is about feeling OP, isn't it? Why do you want to take away the fun from players feeling OP and decide what s fun for them again? The two skills have existed as it is for a year, so let it be.
whats this talk about rocket propelled grenades
I never played game like this before with nerf classes on every patch.
Diablo is going to be like WoW,and thats im afraid of.
They should make better weak classes.
Seems its time to sell all gear ,and play flipper only.
Im afraid to spend time and money to gear up another char ,cuz of incoming nerfs.
Im so disapointed of Blizzard.
Edited by Drax#2292 on 4/20/2013 8:46 AM PDT
As an ARPG player for 15+ years, when I first saw that they put these super powerful long cooldowns in D3 I just facepalmed.
04/20/2013 08:26 AMPosted by Noxifer
I have a Barbarian, a Witch Doctor and a Demon Hunter. I don't find it funny that my Barb is way better than my other two characters even though his gear is worse. Players I know don't find it funny, that they would progress and obtain gear way faster with their poor geared alt Barbs than with their expensively geared main characters.


The best example why Blizzard should buff other classes instead of doing what's wrong for the playerbase.
04/20/2013 08:46 AMPosted by Guldy
I have a Barbarian, a Witch Doctor and a Demon Hunter. I don't find it funny that my Barb is way better than my other two characters even though his gear is worse. Players I know don't find it funny, that they would progress and obtain gear way faster with their poor geared alt Barbs than with their expensively geared main characters.


The best example why Blizzard should buff other classes instead of doing what's wrong for the playerbase.

ONE THOUSAND FIFTY MILLION PRECENT THIS. /THREAD /END OF STORY
04/20/2013 09:03 AMPosted by Noxifer


The best example why Blizzard should buff other classes instead of doing what's wrong for the playerbase.

While I see where you're coming from, I still think that the Sprint: Run like the Wind gameplay is stupid.

May be my imagination is waay too poor, but I simply don't see what the devs could give the rest of the classes, in order for them to play out the way a Barbarian with Run like the Wind does. May be they should give each and every class the Run like the Wind skill rune, until they can figure out what to do?

Imo this a single skill/spec that needs to be redesigned. The result would be that the Barbarian will have to play either Whirlwind without Run like the Wind (and therefore will actually be able to chose a rune for the Whirlwind instead of playing with the absolutely mandatory Hurricane), Rend or Hammer and is going to be way more in line with the rest of the classes. I don't see why every single character has to receive insane buffs in order to match Run like the Wind. One skill is not a good reason for the whole game to get turned on it's head... or may be this is what the game desperately needs, I don't know...


You think its stupid =\= is stupid

personal prefrence is personal
04/19/2013 04:10 PMPosted by Travis Day
I have a love hate relationship with Wrath and Archon for that matter. This is a topic that I felt I should at least comment on since it's come up on many occasions. There is no fundamental flaw with having a 2 minute cooldown ability that transforms your character and is really powerful, the problem is when it becomes a forgone conclusion that these AWESOME abilities are up 100% of the time and instead of being excited that they are up you are annoyed when they fall off. We have talked about what if anything we want to do with these abilities in the long term. I will say we have no short term plans to change them but we don't like that they aren't fulfilling their original purpose which is to provide a really awesome button that mixes up the tempo of combat for a small window of time.


It would be nicer if they fulfilled there original intention but so much would have to be changed to acount for their loss. Skills,gear and passives would have to be revamped and elites mob affixes would again need to be looked at. There are no other skills for barb deemed viable to counter crowd control, who wants to have leap to be a must have skill there are far to many locked in skills already. To remove them or nerf them would take a great deal of effort to re-balance characters so that players kept playing

Wrath and Archon "fix" a lot of the flaws with the skill system and provide viable builds because lets face it there aren't many.
Movement speed has a lot to do with it, its to slow to dodge or implement skill into a game that requires none.
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