Diablo® III

Arcane Orb - Frozen Orb [Arcane Orbit Replacement]

Posts: 490
I feel that wands having a true 6 properties (iterated in its respective thread, linked below) will greatly improve Secondary Skills' viability. However, Arcane Orb - Arcane Orbit seems particularly useless to me. I don't feel I really need to delve any further into why this Skill Rune needs to be replaced, but I welcome the commentary if anyone feels it should be addressed. Now begins the task of replacing it with something Players might want to use and in a fashion that does not make it overpowered. Many of you Wizard Players have been waiting for this, I'm sure. :)

Arcane Orb
Secondary
Cost: 35 Arcane Power
Hurl an orb of pure energy that explodes when it hits, dealing 200% weapon damage as Arcane to all enemies within 10 yards.

Arcane Orb - Frozen Orb
The orb will pierce through targets, dealing no damage to enemies it passes through. The orb splinters dozens of shards from its epicenter that deal 20% weapon damage as Cold to enemies hit.

Proc Coefficients and Balancing Estimates ***I'm sure the numbers will need to be tweaked after play-testing. Basically, don't hate me for trying.***:
[-]Each Frozen Shard deals 20% weapon damage as Cold and applies the "Chilled" effect.
[-]Each Frozen Shard extends from the center of where the orb released it to a maximum of 15 yards. Hitting a target or object ends the Frozen Shard's path.
[-]Frozen Shards are released from the epicenter of the orb in three directions that spin on the orb's axis with the rotation of the orb.
[-]Frozen Shards are released in each of these three directions at a rate of 6 Shards per second.
[-]The orb rotates at a speed of 2 full rotations per second.
[-]The orb travels in the casted direction for 75% of the Maximum distance other Arcane Orbs can travel. Maximum distance traveled over 3 seconds. Colliding with "Waller" affix walls or inanimate objects, at any time before the orb travels its maximum distance, ends the spell.
[-]Proc Coefficient of Orb: 0.000
[-]Proc Coefficient of Frozen Shards: 0.034 (roughly 0.333/10). I'm guessing at an appropriate proc rate by estimating 10 hits vs a single target.

See the following chart for accurate proc coefficients that were used in attempting to balance this skill rune suggestion: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AgL5S3Revw9ddEhScEpSLWhnRDZKV25OaWZJcHdkN0E#gid=8

Other Wizard Balancing Suggestion Threads
Removal of the +Max AP fixed roll on all wands that roll ilvl 63 properties: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/8518311835
Meteor - Meteor Shower "Smart Targeting" Suggestion: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/8518532819
Hydra [3 Max Hydra, Proc Coefficients, LS, and Skill Runes] Suggestions: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/8568987916#1
Familiar - Vigoron, Arcanot, and Cannoneer Suggestions: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/8568888210#1
Edited by Mike#1867 on 4/9/2013 5:41 PM PDT
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great read! bump ~
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Posts: 490
@WorldTears: Thanks for the support! :)
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As much as I loves frozen orb, this ain't happening. Wizard is no sorceress. Unless they introduce sorceress, till then they'll add their signature skill.

Wizard perform magic tricks while sorcerer perform sorcery that slain enemies magically.

I'll be happy if I can see a frozen orb that spreads its shard in huge area that just chill enemy even if it cost like 50 arcane without any proc coeff.

Since each shard is an object, it will behave like grenades (which bounces), and this will take a toll in computer resources for D3, making the spell totally not worth making for developers.

I'll be happy if I can see a frozen orb's shard that just piece through enemy like buriza's arrows and chill even if it cost like 50 arcane without proc coeff.

The wizardspike is really a joke to insult the actual frozen orb. Not just a gimmick, but an insult. Doesn't chill, how does it means it's frozen? Its blue light with slight sparkle that have flickering lifespan.

I'll be happy if I can hear a frozen orb's sound that is exactly what was in D2, even though the game is really old, the skills was executed very well, no need to be 3D, just treat it like DH's scatter shots that doesn't requires targets. Hint: Polar Tangents.
Edited by HachiKumo#6695 on 4/11/2013 1:46 AM PDT
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Posts: 490
@HachiKumo:
Sorceress v. Wizard
So the Sorceress was a harbinger of magical death and the Wizard is a balloon animal-making, children's birthday party entertainer? ...come on.

Arcane Power Cost and Choosing Arcane Orb as the Base Skill for Frozen Orb:
The reason why I did not increase the AP cost to 50 (I considered it) is because I balanced (or at least tried to) it around other Arcane Orb runes for damage and proc rates. If the AP cost is raised to 50, the damage and proc rates would have to be balanced around a comparable skill, such as Meteor. Since the item affix skill bonuses of Meteor would then not apply (because it's still operating off the Arcane Orb base), that becomes excruciatingly complicated. Further, making a Meteor Rune into Frozen Orb feels less in-sync with the rune modification scheme because a Meteor Rune being Frozen Orb feels like too great of a leap, whereas an Arcane Orb rune being Frozen Orb feels reasonable (you already have the central "Orb" and linear-casting concepts going)... at least it does to me.

Proc Coefficients:
Without proc coefficients no Wizard would use the skill at 35 AP cost per cast, let alone 50. It would just be a "Ooo! That looks shiny, but it sucks" sort of situation.

Graphics & Shard Pathing:
The Shards don't have to bounce like grenades. Bouncing wouldn't fit with the concept of the skill. The shards would act like arrows or any other linear-pathing object. The graphic concerns for that are not as complex as grenades. There sure will be a lot of Shards, but using less-graphic intensive rendering for the Shard appearance can help with that.

Piercing Shards/Single Piercing Shard
I'm not sure I really understand what you're saying with this part of your comment. If you just want a single shard projectile, wouldn't that be more of a "Water Trident", "Ice Bolt", "Ice Blast", or "Glacial Spike" sort of concept? To me, that might be appropriate for a Ray of Frost rune, but not an Arcane Orb rune.

If you're looking for the Shards (so many of them) on a Frozen Orb to pierce, that could be possible, but having no proc coefficients would (as described above) make the skill useless and lowering them to a balanced value to account for piercing would make the skill useless for casting on smaller packs (such as every Champion Pack, Elite Pack, and Boss). I don't like the sound of either of those outcomes.

Wizardspike's Frozen Orb
It's a joke... just an Arcane Orb with a blue skin over it with Cold damage. However, it can be the central orb for the real Frozen Orb. Thus making the Developer's job in implementing the real Frozen Orb, at least a small amount, easier.
Edited by Mike#1867 on 4/10/2013 9:45 AM PDT
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90 Pandaren Warrior
14745
Posts: 116
I lold @ sorc post.

Lightning shiit?

Meteor?

I believe frozen orb would be a solid addition
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Posts: 490
@Ninng: Thanks for the support! :)
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@HachiKumo:
Sorceress v. Wizard
So the Sorceress was a harbinger of magical death and the Wizard is a balloon animal-making, children's birthday party entertainer? ...come on.

Arcane Power Cost and Choosing Arcane Orb as the Base Skill for Frozen Orb:
The reason why I did not increase the AP cost to 50 (I considered it) is because I balanced (or at least tried to) it around other Arcane Orb runes for damage and proc rates. If the AP cost is raised to 50, the damage and proc rates would have to be balanced around a comparable skill, such as Meteor. Since the item affix skill bonuses of Meteor would then not apply (because it's still operating off the Arcane Orb base), that becomes excruciatingly complicated. Further, making a Meteor Rune into Frozen Orb feels less in-sync with the rune modification scheme because a Meteor Rune being Frozen Orb feels like too great of a leap, whereas an Arcane Orb rune being Frozen Orb feels reasonable (you already have the central "Orb" and linear-casting concepts going)... at least it does to me.

Proc Coefficients:
Without proc coefficients no Wizard would use the skill at 35 AP cost per cast, let alone 50. It would just be a "Ooo! That looks shiny, but it sucks" sort of situation.

Graphics & Shard Pathing:
The Shards don't have to bounce like grenades. Bouncing wouldn't fit with the concept of the skill. The shards would act like arrows or any other linear-pathing object. The graphic concerns for that are not as complex as grenades. There sure will be a lot of Shards, but using less-graphic intensive rendering for the Shard appearance can help with that.

Piercing Shards/Single Piercing Shard
I'm not sure I really understand what you're saying with this part of your comment. If you just want a single shard projectile, wouldn't that be more of a "Water Trident", "Ice Bolt", "Ice Blast", or "Glacial Spike" sort of concept? To me, that might be appropriate for a Ray of Frost rune, but not an Arcane Orb rune.

If you're looking for the Shards (so many of them) on a Frozen Orb to pierce, that could be possible, but having no proc coefficients would (as described above) make the skill useless and lowering them to a balanced value to account for piercing would make the skill useless for casting on smaller packs (such as every Champion Pack, Elite Pack, and Boss). I don't like the sound of either of those outcomes.

Wizardspike's Frozen Orb
It's a joke... just an Arcane Orb with a blue skin over it with Cold damage. However, it can be the central orb for the real Frozen Orb. Thus making the Developer's job in implementing the real Frozen Orb, at least a small amount, easier.


No offense. Just trying to be sarcastic. Though I know it don't translate well in text.

I do wish to see frozen orb return. In fact, I hesitated to buy D3 when I realize there wasn't any frozen orb. Curses.....
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Hi,
I recently leveled up a Wiz and my build was completely based around Arcane Orbit..
The main reason was that I used the amulet 'moonlight ward' so that I would have 8 arcane things spinning around my character at any one time.

With the itemisation changes coming - If Moonlight Ward drops as an ilvl63 amulet then I will try use Arcane Orbit in Inferno with it... so I don't want the rune to go..

I do want a frozen orb skill like in D2 as that was my favourite skill and why the Sorc was my favourite
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Why replace arcane orbit? Can't you replace one of the unoriginal runes? My suggestion is for the one that pierces through enemies. Don't need 2 arcane orb spells that pierce.

Just because you can't find a use for arcane orbit or meteor shower does not mean they are useless.

However I do like the concept of adding frozen orb, and changing some wizard runes to offer different elemental damage types. It bothers me greatly how there are 2 lightning primary skills, with a total of 9 lightning damage runes, but zero secondary lightning skills on any runes beyond hydra.
Edited by DeadDragon#1455 on 4/11/2013 2:16 AM PDT
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Don't replace Arcane Orbit! It's not a bad rune at all. i used this up till just before the last few acts of Nightmare. It's a pretty good means of taking out enemies at melee range before that do too much damage.

I'll be happy if they just fix the Frozen Orb on Wizardspike. Make it effective like the old FO and make it proc properly. I use Electrocute - Lightning Blast and the effect may proc on mouse press but when I continue to hold, it doesn't proc any more. And considering Wizardspike isn't a weapon one would use to get high DPS,

I think they ought to make the Frozen Orb effect just like in D2 with at least 100% weapon damage. Even if it's spammed, it won't do ridiculous amounts of damage but the FO effect with the shards will make Wizardspike effective and usable as a high level weapon. Just saying ;-)
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Posts: 490
@CheehC: Thanks for your support! :)
Moonlight Ward, Post-Itemization Update
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/item/moonlight-ward
I suspect that Moonlight Ward will have the following stats when dropped by an ilvl 63 monster:
[-] 170-200 Primary Stat (one of the three)
[-] 8-9% Attack Speed
[-] 11-16% Life
[-] 25-50% Chance to be surrounded by balls of Arcane Power when attacking.
[-] Random
[-] Random
[-] Random
If I am correct, this amulet will have the capability to be very powerful.
Even if the skill Arcane Orbit is removed, the amulet can still have Arcane Orbit. See Wizardspike's "Frozen Orb", see also Storm Crow's "Fire Ball".

Why I Chose Arcane Orbit to Replace
Well, it's quite simple. Arcane Orbit seems, to me, to be so easy to fix that it is hard to believe Blizzard really wants it to be functional as opposed to waiting for a suitable replacement. More discussion below.

How Arcane Orbit Could Be Fixed
1) Allow it to stack up to 3 times by adding an internal counter (casting more times simply refreshes each stack using a "first-in, first-out" system [or a smarter system which refreshes stacks with missing Orbs first]). [Stacking it still costs AP and an attack turn. With the range of Orbit, I feel it's balanced to allow limited stacking. *See note In Re: Moonlight Ward below.]
2) Make the hit boxes substantially larger - it's too frustrating to watch the Orbit Orbs go right through monsters and not explode (and it makes the skill unreliable).
3) Make the Orbs rotate around the caster faster (perhaps double their current speed).
4) Decrease the damage per orb from 80% to 65% (to balance with stacking).
5) Decrease the proc coefficient from 0.250 to 0.111 (to balance with larger hit boxes and stacking). Going down to 0.333/4=0.083 doesn't feel quite right to me because of the range limitation.

*Note: Moonlight Ward's unique affix should operate on a different stacking counter and allow only one or two stacks. This keeps the Amulet's bonus strong (and useful), but not too strong. It also allows for the Amulet's bonus to be useful to a Wizard that uses Arcane Orbit.

...and ... done. Easy, right? -but the Developers haven't even addressed the hit box issue despite it being suggested multiple times.

@DeadDragon: Thanks for your support! Good point regarding piercing. So you propose replacing Celestial Orb with Frozen Orb? I think I would be ok with that if Blizzard actually fixed Arcane Orbit.

In Re: Arcane Orbit & Meteor Shower "Useless"
First, let me differentiate. Meteor Shower is not "useless", but it's well below being in line with the rest of the Meteor runes. The current iteration of Arcane Orbit is "useless", there is simply never a good reason to use it.

In Re: Lightning Skill Arcane Power Spenders (and a rant about Armor Spells)
I agree, but I also think more Fire Skills should be added (at least a basic "Fire Ball") and Cold Skills should be improved.
Ice Armor should not be a full category, it should just be reduced to one, useful form as a rune of Energy Armor or Storm Armor and, assuming there are only two categories of armor spells now, one armor spell from each category should be allowed to stack.

*I expanded on the Armor Spell ideas in post #53 in the Meteor Shower thread: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/8518532819?page=3#53

@Mugsy: Thanks for your support! :)

Wizardspike, generally
Giving Wizardspike a real Frozen Orb would be helpful, but that would not be enough to make Wizardspike viable. All attacks and spells rely on weapon damage in Diablo 3. Wizardspike's attack speed makes it's main competitor Chantodo's Will, but Wizardspike's weapon damage is simply too low to compete with Chantodo's Will.

Wizardspike, how to fix it
1) Allow Wizardspike to roll the same +Arcane Damage rolls as a rare: up to "+316-727 Arcane Damage"
2) Replace the "Ignores Durability Loss" with a Random Roll

This is what the best roll of each stat would look like: http://d3up.com/i/7408696

I might even venture to suggest removing the All Res roll for another random roll (since the 80 AR roll can be replaced by one roll on any armor piece, but Chantodo's 330 Int [200base+130bonus] and 7% Elite Damage reduction cannot be replaced by one roll on any armor piece [3 rolls to match]), but some of that disparity would be addressed by the Frozen Orb procs.
Edited by Mike#1867 on 4/11/2013 8:21 PM PDT
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Just wanted to say I wholeheartedly support this. I get that the developers probably wanted the wizard to have a unique skill set rather than just a copy paste of the d2 sorc. But what we got is a class that only has 2 real specs and both are imo boring to play. The fix in 1.08 to teleport was a good start to putting some of the fun back into wizards but we need more. Bring back Frozen Orb!(not the joke wizardspike version).
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sorry.. but this class does not need anymore focus right now. it may only has 2 real specs. But i see wayyyy to many "budget 50mil mp10 wizard videos"
now they are buffing archon even more.
what more could you guys want?
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sorry.. but this class does not need anymore focus right now. it may only has 2 real specs. But i see wayyyy to many "budget 50mil mp10 wizard videos"
now they are buffing archon even more.
what more could you guys want?


Your comment about doing mp 10 on a 50m budget is irrelevant to this thread. But for your information, wizards are one of the most expensive classes (second or third most) to gear for efficient farming of high mps. All a 50m budget will do for you is let you survive mp 10 and slowly grind white mobs down and skipping all elites. You'd be much better off on that budget rolling a barb.

The archon buff is nice but not enough. What more do we want? How about Frozen Orb and the proposed 30% damage buff proposed in Drothvader's thread. Thats what.
Edited by Fusrodah#1817 on 4/12/2013 6:20 AM PDT
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sorry.. but this class does not need anymore focus right now. it may only has 2 real specs. But i see wayyyy to many "budget 50mil mp10 wizard videos"
now they are buffing archon even more.
what more could you guys want?


Your comment about doing mp 10 on a 50m budget is irrelevant to this thread. But for your information, wizards are one of the most expensive classes (second or third most) to gear for efficient farming of high mps. All a 50m budget will do for you is let you survive mp 10 and slowly grind white mobs down and skipping all elites. You'd be much better off on that budget rolling a barb.

The archon buff is nice but not enough. What more do we want? How about Frozen Orb and the proposed 30% damage buff proposed in Drothvader's thread. Thats what.

lol. expensive to gear? you must be kidding.
Inigomontoya spent 300mil on wizard and he FLYS through mp8.
I have friends who have spent billions on their demonhunters and they crawl along mp8.
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DH is most expensive to gear and the weakest class overall, we are agreed. Your friend can do mp8 on a 300 mil budget. That is amazing news. Can you tell me what twitch channel he streams on so I can get some pro tips?

Why dont you go back to trolling the dh forums and stay out of discussions you know nothing about and have nothing to contribute to. This thread is not promoting a buff, its discussing the addition of a skill many wizards would like to have as well as opening up new build possibilities through that skill and some itemization changes. So I dont see what you have to whine about.
Edited by Fusrodah#1817 on 4/12/2013 6:46 AM PDT
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Posts: 490
@Fusrodah: Thanks for the support (and for chasing the troll away)! :)
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Mike:

I'm always glad to read threads like this. Although, I would say there is nothing wrong with arcane orbit except that:

(1) It should cast faster.
(2) It should summon one orb at a time up to a maximum of at least 8.
(3) It should be one of the arcane torrent skills/runes and not arcane orb.
(4) Each orb should auto-seek like a guided missile and try to hit as many closest targets on screen or within a certain range. If there are less targets than orbs, multiple orbs may hit a same target(s).
(5) Each orbit should have a small proc chance to pierce and seek another (or same if no other) target on critical hit.

This would improve both arcane orbit and the whole arcane torrent skill list. Which arcane torrent should be replace could be up for debate.

Regarding your love for frozen orb and this thread--I appreciate the thought/work you put into this. That being said, I don't think that arcane orb should do cold damage or try to redo frozen orb. Our Wizard Hero was a naughty student and didn't pay enough attention to the Zann Esu elders before getting kicked over to the Vizjerei clan and thus may have not learned frozen orb magic (or she did but found it boooooring!). Thus, I don't think that this spell is right for her. However, that doesn't mean your idea, mechanically/functionally, has no use. I think it is still a good idea.

I think instead of replacing arcane orbit, it should simply take its spot (or a higher level sport in the arcane orb list) and arcane orbit should be moved to the arcane torrent list as I suggested earlier. Also, I think instead of frozen orb with the ice/cold damage theme, I think it should still be an arcane orb that uses arcane and does arcane damage. Instead of being called frozen orb, I think it should be call Nether Chill or Hungry Void or something along those lines.

So, think about it.. This rune version of arcane orb could come right before or after Celestial Orb.. Celestial means stars or heavenly, so Nether or Void have the same motif but opposite feeling. It is like the dark cold version of arcane orb. But it still does arcane damage (thus getting the bonus from the passive if you use it). It would not do cold damage but it *would* chill monsters (thus giving more bonuses if applicable). Much like Celestial orb, it would pass through all monsters.. the main difference is that it would also suck monsters towards the center of the moving orb (sort of like a mini black hole). So long as monsters are in range of the spell they take some damage per/tick (more the closer they are to the center of the orb) and during and briefly after getting hit, they're slowed (again more dramatically while closer to the center of the orb).

I think this would be much better than what you proposed. Your idea isn't bad, it just should be saved for when/if they bring back sorceress. In the mean time, while I am not against the Wizard having elemental or sorcerer spells, I think it is good to try to stick with her arcane theme as much as we can while having it still stay interesting. So, I hope you take my suggestion. With your permission I will make a thread about my ideas on this and credit you as my inspiration, linking this thread to mine. I will await to see what you think.

Sincerely,

~Philoi.
Edited by Philoi#1655 on 4/12/2013 11:56 AM PDT
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Posts: 490
@Philloi: Feel free to iterate your idea as you see fit.

Wizard (D3) v. Sorceress (D2) v. Sorcerer (D1)
I think that clinging to the notion that the "Wizard" is not Diablo 3's version of the Diablo 2 "Sorceress" (which was Diablo 2's version of Diablo 1's "Sorcerer" before it) is misplaced. See Hydra, Meteor, Blizzard, Shock Pulse (Charged Bolt), Chain Lightning, Lightning Blast (Lightning), Arcane Orb (Fire Ball - pretty evident with Storm Crow's "Fire Ball" is just an Arcane Orb with a red texture and Fire damage), Frost Nova, Ice Armor (Frozen Armor, Chilling Armor, Shiver Armor), Teleport, Storm Armor (Thunderstorm), Energy Armor (Energy Shield/Mana Shield - although I greatly prefer Diablo 1 and 2's iterations), Astral Presence/Arcanot (Warmth - the translation into Diablo 3 is, currently, just horrible), and Magic Weapon (Enchant).
http://www.d2tomb.com/sorcold.shtml
http://www.diablowiki.com/Spells_%28Diablo_I%29

They have no reason to "bring back the Sorceress", she's already here.

Wizard Lore
We do not know what the Wizard learned or did not learn before turning his/her back on the Ishari Sanctum (spelling?). Further, the Wizard did turn to stronger, more powerful magic (not specified) as he/she became distant from his/her teachers. I don't see any limitations barring a Wizard from having Frozen Orb here.

Temporal Flux vs. Chill
Arcane damage requires use of the passive Temporal Flux to slow targets. Cold damage does not require a passive to chill targets.

Wizard Skills that Change Damage Type in Different Runes
Meteor, Shock Pulse, Magic Weapon, Hydra, and Familiar.

Arcane Orbit as an Arcane Torrent Rune
I wouldn't feel it to be an appropriate relocation unless the visual animation is changed from circling orbs to the 'torrent streaks' circling around the Wizard. I think it would also require a name change.
Edited by Mike#1867 on 4/12/2013 2:28 PM PDT
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