Diablo® III

Hall of Godly Demon Hunters 2.0 new formula

@Shdwflare

Yeah, I'm underrating disc at the moment. I'm getting feedback from blkdrgn, revrac, kamikaze, and mwm right now for the best way of adjusting the formula.
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no disrespect intended, but are you asking the right people? they seem to be all non legacy DH...
Edited by Shdwflare#1288 on 4/17/2013 9:31 AM PDT
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blkdrgn uses legacy nats for his pvp gear set.
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@Shadowflare

I used Legacy gear in PVP before selling it to Mannercookie. I understand that it is very important and we have been discussing making Legacy users get a 80-100% score bonus.

Now lets get rid of those EHP breakpoints in PVE and add the full SOJ bonus vs Elites. EHP breakpoints are ridiculous considering those that spec into ehp can take advantage of some of the damage passives and skills. Those with high dps are locked into using ehp skills and passives.......do you see where i am going with this.

MWM and I were discussing this very topic this morning and we both came to the same conclusion, that EHP breakpoints should be removed.
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I'm gonna break my comments here into 2 parts: PvP and PvE

First of PvP.
While I do not claim to have extensive knowledge into PvP as some of the other boys, I have given it a shot over the past couple of days with varying builds, opponents and gear sets and come to the following few pointers of note to share.

  • Discipline is all mighty. A very heavy weight must be given to this attribute. In fact, exponentially increasing the points per every disc gained makes more sense to me and probably those running legacy nats to top the curve in terms of awarding disc points to ranking. Discipline is after all the bread and butter of what makes a DH tick in PvP. It is used to get us both out of danger and into strategic positions to attack.


  • Attack speed is nearly worthless in PvP. It artificially inflates dps when in actual fact, PvP is almost always "damage per hit". You will hardly ever find a opponent who stands still allowing you to fire multiple shots continuously and utilize attack speed as a function of dps.


  • The stats "+life from health gloves and potions" and "life regen per sec" should receive a heavier prominence in your formulae calculation. These are often neglected but important stats that increase survivability in PvP when used effectively.


  • Critical chance is over-rated in PvP. Running sharpshooter to maximise damage per hit effectively minimizes the effectiveness of critical chance upon a certain break point. It only serves well against tankier opponents but even then, a DH would typically be running a "hide and seek" strategy against such opponents thereby questioning the need to stack too much critical chance and just slotting in Sharpshooter as a more reliable skill. This is however still up for debate and questionable.
  • I will continue my thoughts on PvE ranking in my 2nd post shortly.
    Edited by MWM#1406 on 4/17/2013 10:08 AM PDT
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    @Revrac

    I'm definitely going to look at the ehp breakpoints more closely. I'm going to keep some sort of breakpoint, but I'm open to increasing them and putting more weight on ehp.

    I realize that with higher ehp, you also get more effective dps since you can tank more and kite less, but I'm probably not going to give full weight. Here is my reasoning:

    A 400k dps/ 1m ehp dh pretty much kills twice as fast as a 200k dps/ 1m ehp dh so deserves double the score. However, a 200k dps/ 2m ehp dh doesn't kill twice as fast as a 200k dps/ 1m ehp dh. He kills faster since he doesn't kite and can utilize more offensive skills, but not to the extent where his score should double, even factoring in that there is a significant value to not dying at all.

    @MWM

    Great feedback!
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    A 400k dps/ 1m ehp dh pretty much kills twice as fast as a 200k dps/ 1m ehp dh so deserves double the score. However, a 200k dps/ 2m ehp dh doesn't kill twice as fast as a 200k dps/ 1m ehp dh


    I agree with you that a DH with the same EHP but 2x the DPS will kill 2x as fast, there is no debate there. However, a 200k/2m DH has some options open to him that will increase his DPS. Most DH's use Shadow Power-Gloom and Tactical Advantage+ Vault to move around fast. A high ehp DH can run Shadow Power-Shadow Glide and run Bait the Trap for signifigant increase in DPS. Combine that with the passives Archery+ Cull the Weak and an SOJ and your 200dps DH now has nearly 375k dps and still more EHP then your 400k DH. Your dps DH must spec into TA, Perfectionist, Nightstalker without gaining the damage bonus passives. And if your high dps DH wants to run an SoJ, now his ehp is far below 1m and most of it based on dodge. He must play extra carefu so as not to die from elemental damage. Dying in a run can slow it down by over 20% making it highly inefficient.

    I still must say that ehp breakpoints need to be eliminated and I can justify it with some video's. Not sure when I will do it, can be real lazy, but hopefully this week.

    You now have the capacity to do as much damage and be able to tank more consistently and kite less often with less deaths. All of this adds up to identical times for farming MP7 VotA.
    Edited by REVRAC#1267 on 4/17/2013 11:02 AM PDT
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    I like having high EHP (not quite as high as you Rev but getting there). I can stand in stuff and shoot with wild abandon!
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    Great discussions guys!
    Sadly my English is not good enough to explain my thoughts. What I strongly agree is "increase of score from gain of disc should be calculated exponetially." by MWM. thats true.

    Crit chance, is like monk's one with everything, being in the situation of choice between affixes on gears and passive space. This is always hard to rate..

    Since in the game space of affixes on gears and space for skill choices are all limited, the case is mostly allocating them as a whole. Different ppl has different system, hard to rate better or worse by just talking here on sheet.

    Another point I want to figure out is that I think ehp is a bit underrated in PvE. Change 1 piece of dps gear into ehp gear makes me get the highest pve score in your formula, however practically change 2 piece makes me feel the most efficient in high mps.

    Also, attacks speed in pve should be take more heavily to give calamity uses a right position. I can tell you that I am not that confident to pass 4-player zk/sb with my manticore considering the slow energy regeneration.
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    Here is my new PVE gear with my freshly crafted amulet

    PvE PvP
    Hall Score 58,762.26 70,302.28
    DPS Score 338.90 345.54
    EHP Score 73.37 122.56
    Sustain Score 1.17 1.09
    Move Score 1.24 1.24
    Paragon Score 1.45 0
    Misc Score 1.12 1.22

    I don't care about sustain but I guess that is how to inflate the score the easiest. We DH have Shadow Power which provides more than enough life.

    Edit: I agree with MWM's comments on PVP.
    Edited by Iria#1342 on 4/18/2013 12:46 AM PDT
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    .
    Edited by Haybaler#1911 on 4/18/2013 4:42 PM PDT
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    @ Celanian

    You can remove me from the list again. I sold my new nats and went back to legacy. Once I get some PvP gear to make up for the EHP loss ill see where I stand. Thanks brotha.
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    PvE Score:

    Hall Score 32,367.46
    DPS Score 280.78
    EHP Score 58.73
    Sustain Score 1.12
    Move Score 1.24
    Paragon Score 1.38
    Misc Score 1.03

    PVP Score:

    Hall Score 34,920.54
    DPS Score 280.78
    EHP Score 86.39
    Sustain Score 1.13
    Move Score 1.24
    Paragon Score 0
    Misc Score 1.03
    Edited by Haybaler#1911 on 5/16/2013 1:11 PM PDT
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    PVP gear (general gear I use vs most):

    PvE PvP
    Hall Score 51,071.37 84,839.05
    DPS Score 251.85 284.70
    EHP Score 84.63 179.83
    Sustain Score 1.26 1.12
    Move Score 1.12 1.12
    Paragon Score 1.45 0
    Misc Score 1.17 1.32
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    New DML, more vit, still not the 20-10 I need:

    PvE PvP
    Hall Score 62,099.20 57,158.93
    DPS Score 339.21 339.21
    EHP Score 70.41 115.61
    Sustain Score 1.53 1.14
    Move Score 1.25 1.25
    Paragon Score 1.33 0
    Misc Score 1.03 1.03
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    Do I even get an honerable mention? I think I'm pretty well geared...
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    04/20/2013 02:11 AMPosted by Saints311
    Do I even get an honerable mention? I think I'm pretty well geared...


    Yeah, your score is 32,293

    Hall Score 32,293.12
    DPS Score 272.41
    EHP Score 54.89
    Sustain Score 1.06
    Move Score 1.24
    Paragon Score 1.50
    Misc Score 1.10

    Enough for 5th place in 1h wing.
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    just curious what my score wud b
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    04/20/2013 06:47 PMPosted by Pergalinski
    just curious what my score wud b


    Hall Score 28,248.38
    DPS Score 275.68
    EHP Score 35.82
    Sustain Score 1.53
    Move Score 1.24
    Paragon Score 1.41
    Misc Score 1.08

    Your score is 28,248. Need to work on getting that EHP up to increase your score.
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    New Score:
    PvE PvP
    Hall Score 51,279.96 56,503.55
    DPS Score 392.40 392.40
    EHP Score 62.90 97.22
    Sustain Score 1.16 1.17
    Move Score 1.24 1.24
    Paragon Score 1.42 0
    Misc Score 1.02 1.02
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