Diablo® III

Perfectionist is USELESS...

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I believe you all know about how this skill work, here is a link if you are not sure
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/class/demon-hunter/passive/perfectionist

primary effect
Reduces the Discipline cost of all skills by 10%.
additional effect
Increases your Life, Armor and all of your resistances by 10%.

effect 2 was added after 1.04? 1.05? I can't remember but I don't use it for the extra def, when my armor and res are always low.

effect 1 is reduction by 10% = 90% of original
Here are the list of skills that use this effect
Caltrops
Smoke Screen
Shadow Power
Vault
Preparation
Companion
Mark for Death

Now, how many of these skill you think gain the effect from Perfectionist?
...
..
.

I will show you the math, and you can test the result for yourself.
Caltrops, cost 6
Smoke Screen, cost 14
=Breathe Deep, cost 12
Shadow Power, cost 14
=Well of Darkness, cost 12
Vault, cost 8
=Tumble, cost 8, 4
Preparation
=Punishment, cost 25
Companion, cost 10
Mark for Death, cost 3

25 - (25x0.10) = 22.5
14 - (14x0.10) = 12.6
12 - (12x0.10) = 10.8
10 - (10x0.10) = 9.0
8 - (8x0.10) = 7.2
6 - (6x0.10) = 5.4
4 - (4x0.10) = 3.6
3 - (3x0.10) = 2.7

All of the skill we have the cost reduced by exactly 10%.

These numbers are exact they will not be rounded when you active your skill. So if you want to place down a caltrop with perfectionist, you need 5.4 disciple, which means you can't active this skill when you only have 5 discipline. To double vault with tumble rune it will cost you 10.8 discipline which is the same as saying reduce cost by 1.

I always thought the numbers will be rounded so we get whole numbers, but no. This decrease cost by 10% means you can cast 10% more of you skills.

With 30 disc you can place down, 5 caltrops, active smoke screen and/or shadow power twice, vault 3 times or 4 with tumble, or cast punishment once.

With 30 disc and perfectionist you can place down, 5 caltrops, active smoke screen and/or shadow power twice, vault 4 times or 5 with tumble, or cast punishment once.

The only difference is that you can play with more vault when you have this passive in slot.

I'm adding it to our useless list of passive. Unless changes are made in the future I don't see any point of using it...

Some possible changes that will greatly improve the skill are:

Reduces the Discipline cost of all skills by 2.
Increases your Maximum Discipline by 10.

Increases Discipline Regeneration by 1 per Second.
Increases your Maximum Discipline by 10.

We really don't need the 10% armor/res since adding 10% will only improve defense by less than 3%. We need more fuel to active defensive skills.
Edited by KirusAlufras#1739 on 4/13/2013 4:22 PM PDT
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Changing it to increase disc regen would be nice, but should still keep the defense buffs,
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04/13/2013 04:28 PMPosted by half3vil
Changing it to increase disc regen would be nice, but should still keep the defense buffs,


To be honest, the 10% life increase should be added to Brooding and not Perfectionist. And as I said the defensive buff will only increase you defensive by less than 3%. Skills need to have pros and cons.
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We knew that it was 10% not rounded to whole numbers, that shouldn't bother you;
perfectionist is functionally identical to having
1) 10% Maximum discipline (30 acts like 33, 60 acts like 66)
2) Your discipline regenerates 10% more (+1 acts like +1.1)


We really don't need the 10% armor/res since adding 10% will only improve defense by less than 3%. We need more fuel to active defensive skills.


check math on that again
100 RA vs 1000 RA and a +10% return; it alters the effectiveness as RA grows
1.1x / (1.1x+315)

100 vs 110
100/(415) = 75.903% incoming damage
110/(425) = 74.117% incoming
that is a change of survival = 2.409%

1000 vs 1100
1000/1315 = 23.9543% incoming
1100/1415 = 22.2614% incoming
that's is a change of survival = 7.604%

adding more armor and more RA scales the returns on perfectionist

perfectionist is a decent passive compared, 10% scale on discipline and a 10% armor/ra/vit is a good option - far better than brooding alone, hot pursuit, toth or ballistics
Edited by zoid#1554 on 4/13/2013 4:46 PM PDT
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@zoid

I see what you mean. But I can't see people pile up 1000 RA. There are 13 slots, -2 from weapons, you get 11 slot all with RA is 880 and than you need a equivelant of 1200 int to cover the last 120 RA. Getting to 600 is hard enough for most player.

I didn't do the math, I made a assumption from the following data.
If you have 4000A/400RA then its 80.59% reduction from lv63
If you have 4400A/440RA then its 82.59% reduction from lv63

You gain an overall increase to defense of 2.0%. I did not take the % difference like what you did.
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Your math is not accounting for natural disc regen. Shadow Power costs 14 disc. Perfectionist reduces to 12.6. Shadow Power lasts 5 seconds, you will regenerate 5 Disc making the cost 7.6. With Perfectionist, you can use 3 Shadow Power, not 2.

Without Perfectionist, you can use 2 Shadow Power for 10 seconds but you will not have enough disc to cast Shadow Power a 3rd time, since you are short 2 Disc.

This very slight difference is important. With Preparation: Focused Mind, you can time the usage so that by the time you use all disc for Gloom, the cooldown for Prep would have reset, allowing you to do this over and over again.
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Your math is not accounting for natural disc regen. Shadow Power costs 14 disc. Perfectionist reduces to 12.6. Shadow Power lasts 5 seconds, you will regenerate 5 Disc making the cost 7.6. With Perfectionist, you can use 3 Shadow Power, not 2.

Without Perfectionist, you can use 2 Shadow Power for 10 seconds but you will not have enough disc to cast Shadow Power a 3rd time, since you are short 2 Disc.

This very slight difference is important. With Preparation: Focused Mind, you can time the usage so that by the time you use all disc for Gloom, the cooldown for Prep would have reset, allowing you to do this over and over again.


Bingo.
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Your math is not accounting for natural disc regen. Shadow Power costs 14 disc. Perfectionist reduces to 12.6. Shadow Power lasts 5 seconds, you will regenerate 5 Disc making the cost 7.6. With Perfectionist, you can use 3 Shadow Power, not 2.

Without Perfectionist, you can use 2 Shadow Power for 10 seconds but you will not have enough disc to cast Shadow Power a 3rd time, since you are short 2 Disc.

This very slight difference is important. With Preparation: Focused Mind, you can time the usage so that by the time you use all disc for Gloom, the cooldown for Prep would have reset, allowing you to do this over and over again.


I understand that, zoid has mentioned. Its like increasing your max disc by 10% which is a easier way to see the results. Now will a reduction by 2 not better than 10%?

It becomes 23/25= 8%, 12/14= 14.29%, 8/10= 20%, 6/8= 25%, 4/6= 33.33%, etc.. There is only 1 skill that cost more than 20 disc to cast, the rest of the skills gain more benefits from a reduction of 2 over 10%.

...
I use Focused Mind, myself, I have L4N so I do not use perfectionist, the set free up a passive slot for me, as a +2 regen is better than how perfectionist will work.
Edited by KirusAlufras#1739 on 4/13/2013 5:42 PM PDT
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Been using it ever since they added the 10% stat bonus effect, and it's FAR from useless. As zoid pointed out already, the more eHP you have, the better return you get for using it in regards to mitigation increase.

I'll be keeping my perfectionist just the way it is. Thanks.
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The defensive benefits of perfectionist are huge.

Let's assume 400AR/4000 armor DH with 40k life.

His mitigation is 400/715 = 55.9% from AR and from Armor. His raw ehp before dodge is:

40k/(1-.559/(1-.559) = 206,087

With perfectionist, he has 440AR/4400 armor, and 44k life.

His mitigation is 440/755 = 58.3%

His ehp before dodge is:

44k/(1-.583)/(1-.583) = 252770. He increased his ehp by 22.7%!
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Perfectionist is far from useless. it's probably the passive that every DH uses for PVP.
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Yeah, I definitely notice a major difference in my survivability between having Perfectionist and not. As Celanian demonstrates, because it increases all 3 of Armor/AR/Health, and those stats each make each other more valuable, it can scale very nicely. When they first announced the change I was skeptical that it would do much, but the difference in practice has been pretty big for me.
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My tank DH loves Perfectionist.
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Perfectionist is a must have when im doing Keep2 runs for legends.
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i use perfectionist for the extra res. all and hp.

i think 60 res all and 5k hp from a passive is pretty good, and little bit of disc is just a bonus.

i mean, its not great, but what would i use instead? tactical advantage is more of a convenience thing, the only real candidate for me would be cull of the weak...but i dont know...its 15% more dmg vs 10% more def stats...i feel like on higher mps defense becomes more important as a quality of life thing.
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So far I see almost everyone using this skill for the defense bonus, not the discipline bonus...

Is this a trend? I value discipline over armor/resistance/life.

Simply it's a class specific thing, and is hard to get from gears.
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yeah, nobody used it when it was just for disc, and almost everyone uses it when it got the defenses added in....so what would you think most people use it for?
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I don't think its useless, in fact, I dont see any other passive I don't currently use taking its place on my top 3.
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So far I see almost everyone using this skill for the defense bonus, not the discipline bonus....


04/13/2013 10:35 PMPosted by Borat
yeah, nobody used it when it was just for disc, and almost everyone uses it when it got the defenses added in....so what would you think most people use it for?


yes we use it for defense, the majority of discipline returns is from NS and crit%; e.g. strafe builds in mp1 might still take NS but not perfectionist

but don't forget context; Big shifts in game play happened when MP was created (patch 05)
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/blog/7528695/7528695#demonhunter

perfectionist meant something in relation to changes
MP invented
gloom altered
bola radius buff
echos were created
Edited by zoid#1554 on 4/13/2013 11:12 PM PDT
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To anyone using Perfectionist for the life/res/armor increase, why not just use Numbing Traps?

I value Perfectionist more for the 10% Discipline reduction, and I'd rather the other bonuses be removed for 20-25% Discipline reduction at the least. Although, having the Discipline AND the added defense made it a passive more worth using, that's for sure.
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