Diablo® III

PTR is an Act 3 nerf

Seems a bit short sighted and ignorant to complain about the "nerf" to scorpion XP. Even the "don't nerf scorpions, raise everything else up to match", because that's sort of what they did.

If you look at it in a vacuum, and just want to complain about the decrease in scorpion XP, you're going to look pretty silly in global terms to overall XP changes with density tweaks and the MASSIVE boost to having NV stacks move from additive to multiplicative.

The end result is a giant, game wide boost to XP.

Sure, people will figure out optimal routes regardless, but when one route is optimal to the point that any other route is futile, there is a problem. I would have to think that, while there will be optimal routes going forward, you won't feel like you are being penalized so much for running another route instead.
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A Diablo Series game has to be spectacular, challenging and complex enough to keep people playing after they finished the "regular" gameplay or content.

There will always be "the most efficient route for maximum xp" or the "best in slot" item.

What I would like to have is more diversity in builds and way cooler legendaries with unique features, where one charbuild evolves from just one single item.

The other issue I have is the static skill devellopment.

Let us put XP into skills to make them stronger (1Skillpoint per level,100 max), with an option to get it back by using currency (gold, gems, brimstones)
And please get rid of the 80% useless passives...

The last patches were good, but you really need to hurry Blizz.

Within 6 months, this game will be populated by bots and noobs only, if you don't make it more diverse.

o/
Edited by Eraser#2219 on 4/10/2013 9:39 AM PDT
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Its not fine...its the easy way out. Blizz usually takes the most cost effective way to approach an in balance.

Adding more mobs to act 2 for instance. In order to do that, they would have to nerf the bees. Add to some map sizes, god forbid they make maps bigger, and then...

Make new monsters? No. Thats exp content. Out of the question. Recycle other monsters in the game and put them in act 2? Well, that can be ruled out because it would not feel like act 2 anymore.

Then they say, well if we can't make act 2 more popular by changing it, we can make people play other acts by making act 3 less desirable. So, lets look at nerfing act 3. Very easy to tweak exp values then it its to completely redo play through of an entire act.

End result is a net loss of players. People unsatisfied with act 1,2 and 4, that only played act 3...will not suddenly be satisfied with acts 1, 2 and 4. They are just gonna play a different game.

I have not really played in a few days. Just...had it.

Same thing....over an over an over an over. Lets get some map randomization. Lets get some free roam. Act 4...the high heavens...is as about as big a let down you can imagine.

Another problem with mob density, is monster size. In act 3, there are many monsters that are not to big. So, they have room for lots of them. Jump to act 4 and your average monster is 5 times the size of your hero, and then you fight sheablo. Sheablo hurt the game 10x more then the ah.

....oops...I said it.

This is why the game has not changed since its release. Your talking about redoing animation for lots of monsters, making them smaller. Changing map size. Its not just coding in new values for exp, and doubling the amounts of monsters in acts 1,2 and 4. There are many many more problems then the ones gamers see...which is a useless run through acts 1 2 an 4.

So basically there were two mobs that gave way too much experience that people just farmed for that... nerfing that is fine. That doesn't mean you don't do act 3 any more. People don't just farm act 3 for exp.

People aren't going to farm Act 3 any less. The density of Act 3 was the model for the new density of the other acts. Act 3 is still just as viable to farm as any of the other acts are now.

Why is your first response to a "nerf" ... "I won't do Act 3 anymore!". Everyone always over reacts like this... they think because a change happens they have to stop playing a certain way. When they initially lowered the proc rate on Wicket Wind... CM Wizards came on this forum and cried about how they nerfed CM wizards and CM wizards were useless now and no one can be a CM wizard any more and etc etc. Then what happen? Everyone kept playing CM Wizards.

Act 3 is fine.
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04/10/2013 04:00 AMPosted by Skorn
Strange to see someone like you make so many posts defending the game, which you don't appear to play much if at all yourself.

Just because I back a very specific design choice does not mean that I think the whole game is suddenly awesome.

Secondly, why does it matter if I decide to play one single character or not?

04/10/2013 09:16 AMPosted by Animastyle
Been a lot better if they buffed other acts rather than nerf act 3.

They did buff the other acts quite significantly. Act I now feels a lot like Act III in terms of monster density.
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Rather than just complain about everything Blizzard tries to do to fix the apparent issues, I think I'll just wait and see how the 1.08 density and bonus experience changes affect the relative value of other acts for leveling up.

I am getting a bit tired of spending so much time in Act III unless I'm gathering keys from I or II; hopefully the change will be for the better.

It doesn't seem with the bonus exp bump that dropping the value of scorpions should be any big deal.
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Rather than just complain about everything Blizzard tries to do to fix the apparent issues, I think I'll just wait and see how the 1.08 density and bonus experience changes affect the relative value of other acts for leveling up.

I am getting a bit tired of spending so much time in Act III unless I'm gathering keys from I or II; hopefully the change will be for the better.

It doesn't seem with the bonus exp bump that dropping the value of scorpions should be any big deal.


Exactly. With the XP NV stack changes, I was farming Act 1 in the PTR last night with great results.
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04/09/2013 06:54 PMPosted by Drothvader
I really should just play on a different account and delete everything on this one because clearly the only thing that really matters in any discussion is what Paragon level I am. =/


Don't give people that satisfaction. If the ridicule really bothers you I would switch your avatar to a SC2/WOW one instead (I chose this one because it's D3 CE and I like it's look).

Otherwise I agree that it's sad to see people look at profiles to see paragon levels... elite kills... acts completion... or total kills as a basis on whether or not your post is valid.

Even if a completely new person were to post I would first read what they have to say and then argue or converse after solely based on the post. Only a few instances where the person is either ignorant or complaining for the sake of complaining do I check their profile to see if they are properly geared (seeing people with little life steal/life on hit and having them complain that "so and so is too hard, nerf it!").
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04/09/2013 06:16 PMPosted by Drothvader
Arreat Crater might be a little less profitable as a result, but at least you don't have to do Alkaizer runs any more to get the max XP per hour.

You say that as if doing "runs" is a bad thing. I understand the boredom of doing the same thing over and over.. but that is a problem of the player not the "run".

I've heard that mentioned lots of times and frankly I just don't understand. X is better than Y.. and someone doesn't want runs.

Yet however you change things around someone is going to come along and dissect it and figure out what is the best method and then a group of people afterwards is going to follow it... aka "runs"

It just seems rather pointless.
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I just wanted to say act 4 is amazing. I love the graphics, the feel, demons in heaven, awesome! cant wait for the density increase! I WANT LEAD!
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You guys are doing a great job, keep it up!
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heres a thought lets have a waypoint to other acts like d2 had
play ur favorite spots in all of them in one game with 5 nv
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
5820
I will continue to play Act 3.

Never once did I claim I wasn't going to, or that Act 3 is worthless now.

The point I am making is that there is no gain in harming a particular playstyle - the community as a whole would benefit from additions made everywhere else to compensate.

In comparison to other mobs, yes the scorpions obviously give a tremendous amount of experience, but the experience they nerfed was NOT moved somewhere else to compensate for it.

Thus, players leveling from 1 - 60 and beyond will find themselves advancing at a slower pace. This is especially an issue in Hardcore.

Every run through Act 3 and every kill earned will seem (and become) less valuable as a whole.

What everyone seems to be missing is not the idea of "is it viable" or "does it suck now."

What I am trying to convey is "Why not buff everything else to make it more appealing?"


The answer is pretty obvious. They didn't intend everything to give that much experience. So they just fixed the monsters that were. Why do you want everything to be easier?
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I want to add my 2 cents on this...
I've play a bit in the 1.08 PTR and I really like the changes for the most part.
I really like the ID all. Hugely appreciated and IMHO long overdue.
I really like the new character dialog text in the chat.
I think I will like the AH tool tip to compare with equipped gear. (AH was down when I wanted to check)
I think I will like the changes to crafting, especially being able to use craft ingredients in the stash since of often forget to put them in inventory and make an extra trek back and forth to the stash.
I’m happy there will be more buff icons displayed
And I like the reduced cool down if you change a skill outside of town.

So for all of that I want to say a BIG THANK YOU to blizzard. Love it. Thank you, Thank you, Thank you.

Now, about the change that is reducing the exp by 75% on the stingers and crawlers…
This I don’t like and don’t really understand.
I get it that exp is out of proportion with the difficulty of kill them.
But really… so what?
The act 3 route used to get exp benefit of these stinger mob is used by a lot of player…. so what?
Why does it matter if a lot of people want to level there characters more quickly by using this route over and over?
It’s not like if one player gets exp quickly there is not enough exp left over for other players to get their exp playing other acts or routes
People like to play with characters that are higher level. Having players with higher level characters does not take anything away from players who don’t have high level characters.

To me, and I think to many, this game is fun, and it is more fun when you can go faster. For example, ALL of my characters have as much movement speed bonuses as they can, as soon as I can equip them with it.

[I still don’t understand the 25% move speed cap. I find that after getting a DH to paragon 65, and then a barb to paragon 30, that I like playing with my newer monk using tempest rush so much more because with all the buffs it has a movement speed of 60%.]

This is another example to me of why impose a limit. If someone wants to move fast it does not make it so that others are forced to move slow. There is no limited pool of movement that if some players take more, other players don’t get enough.

Similarly, there is no limited pool of exp that if someone gains exp fast, there is not enough left for others who get it slower.

Also, the change in the way the nephalem valor stacks in multiplayer games should not be a deciding factor. I am sure that there are many players who don’t play multiplayer much. I often play solo, with just my trusty Templar by my side.

It is a style of play that people enjoy, and it does not cause problems for other people who don’t favor that style.
So why would you want to take it away?

Blizzard, I thank you and applaud you for your continued improvements to this game. I started playing it when it was in beta, and have continued to play regularly through 1.07 and I am sure I will continue to play 1.08 and beyond.

But I ask you to rethink the change of reducing the exp for killing stingers and crawlwers by 75%. It seems that the only thing this change will do is to take away a style of play that a lot of people seem to enjoy or at the very least find useful.

(and while you are rethinking that stinger exp change, PLEASE consider upping the (or removing) the movement speed cap. If people don’t want to move fast, they don’t have to equip items that have that stat)

Thanks. Stepping down from my soap box now. :-)
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I dislike things about acts 1,2,4 that have nothing to do with how much xp scorpions give.

Act 1, not nearly enough monsters or xp. Yeah, adding 10x the monsters would help with that. Also most of the monsters are pretty boring, zombies woo.

Act 2, seriously annoying abilities on many monsters. The bees, masses of fallen that run away, those burrowers that hide, snakes that turn invisible. There are small parts of the act that are good but for a complete act playthrough do not want.

Act 4, so so so so short, not enough enemies, some really annoying enemies.

Act 3 is nice because of having plenty of enemies and not a lot that is trying to hide from you.

Make act 1, 2, 4 not suck. Add more interesting enemies in act1 and a lot more of them, remove all the annoying run and hide mobs in act2, make act 4 as long as a normal act and add tons of champ packs.
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OP Here

Let me re-iterate some points that were missed altogether by essentially everyone.

First, let me say that part of my original argument did lack some credibility as far as level 60 and beyond because I did not realize that NV was buffed so much!

The part that was missed entirely was the repercussions to the natural leveling process (1 - 60) on softcore and hardcore.

So let's get this straight:

A) Having multiple choices is a good thing.
B) Removing silly exploits from the game is a good thing. (Farming SPECIFICALLY demon lobsters)
C) Interrupting the natural level process is a bad thing.

So part of my current curiosity is how the natural leveling process will work in 1.08?

Obviously, it's not a huge amount of experience, so I'm interested in how it will affect 1-60. (Hopefully not more grinding between those levels!)

IF there is repercussions to this, then players may find themselves repeating act 3 a couple of times in anticipation of act 4 (which is still easily the most difficult and least rewarding of all of the acts).

As far as "efficiency" and "leveling" or "optimization" and whatever is concerned, there is no reason to be upset because the changes to NV and Multi-Player conditions will make Paragon leveling unbelievably easy.

EDIT: The goal of this thread was not to bash players and Blizzard employees by the way. (Thank you for the reply and the link!)

The patch 1.08 is a much-needed, and wonderful improvement to Diablo 3 and Blizzard is headed in the right direction as far as game design is concerned.


Just thought I would quote this since it appears many people have hopped right over it, and not a single response to it.

The nerf to scorpion exp isn't a huge deal in comparison to the NV buff for paragon leveling.

The only people who should be upset by this change are 1-60's and hardcore players.

Yes, you will get less exp from killing scorpions. You will get even more experience from everything else thanks to NV nerf.
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from OP I read:

This is a HUGE nerf to my bot that runs scorpions 24/7

Your tears don't even taste good..do what Lylirra says and get your unknowledgeable self on PTR before crying.
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Community Manager
04/10/2013 06:23 PMPosted by MasterJay
Your tears don't even taste good..do what Lylirra says and get your unknowledgeable self on PTR before crying.


(Pssst.)

:)
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Thanks for following up. :)

Why do you think Act III has "been ruined"? Is it simply because of the XP reduction for scorpions, or is it something else entirely?



Yes, as simple as that, if you like.

People who level whenever it's 0-60 or Paragon will always figure out the best possible route and use it.

AC2 is currently the best by far. The people's choice. It doesn't require wasting your time on NV buffs or killing elites. Without scorpions XP it's ruined as it will only give you 15% XP of what it does now.

I spent hours in PTR and I don't see anything even close to giving me the same amount of XP with my gear.

I already asked a question that you avoid to answer:

If you want people to play other acts why do you need to remove the best way to get XP from the game instead of adding better routes in other acts that will be a new people's choice because they are better?

Is that rather improvement or nerf?

If you think people leveling too fast and you want to do a big nerf so they spend more time grinding Paragon just openly say so instead of pretending you don't know what people are talking about here.
Edited by alikim#1300 on 4/12/2013 1:56 AM PDT
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I don't like this act 3 nerf. I realy enjoyed to play there. (EU realm ofc) If the scorpions got xp nerf, then incrase the elits xp's and other monsters xp's in act 3. This huge xp diferency in this patch is not good. And not i am the only one who think the same. Or another option. Incrase all mobs xp bonuses to all act. For example the pony level is a joke :D i realy want the cow's or some other monsters because this hello kitty feeling is not good in the Diablo. :D And the ubers... well as i rember well in d2 3 stage 3 organs. hmm can wee maybe use the organs to open another realm where inside wee have to face: Belial, Shadow Diablo, Azmodan. And the reward is golds, rares, legendary's, and a charm, what gives the player random stats, based on ch.
Example: Wizard: 100-250 <----(main stat) inteligence, 40 all resistance, 60 vitality, chc 5.0-10.0, chd 35-90. and gives the player fixed 10 to all atribute, some pick up radius, and atack speed. To use it this charm just leav in your ch inventory, not the stash. This charms are account bound items only.
For the other characters, the stats are same just the main stat is changed: dex, and str.
the drop rates by this charm based on mp level, or same as the helfire ring organs drop rate. The hard in to this 4th uber area is your colens what diablo summon to us, + azmodans lava floor, and Belials poison sprays, so this is a fun :D and makes it alive the uber :D

To open the 4th uber area, you have to ask the jewler, who craft down by the organs to a cursabel or what it is this item name XD and this item is open the realm of destruction, The area maybe in the high haven were wee kill diablo, or the diablo shadow realm, or magdah's lair. To craft down this item wee must have all 3 organs, wee can chose to craft a hellfire ring or open the 4th. uber realm.
Edited by TalRasha#2923 on 4/15/2013 1:25 AM PDT
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