Diablo® III

Demon Hunter eDPS (effective DPS) Issue

More evidence that DH need some edps buff.

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/8568987779

Some monk trying to defend DH does not need buff ended up proving DH need buff desperately.
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Had to paste my reply on our private d3 group concerning the same issue about classes. My share of point-of-view.

I agree barb is OP and easy, but as for the other classes I might have to point out that we should not forget the term "different". They're not all meant to kill as fast as the other, they tend to have all the difference in skills and game play. Nobody would want a DH who could tank and kills easily as monk or a barb.

My point is if y'all want all the other class to accomplish the same !@#$, then blizzard should've made just ONE class. Monk kills faster, yes but do they have the mobility and range the DH has in its advantage? Can a monk kite? No. Does the other classes have summons that would tank for them like WD? I could go on, but the bottom line is they all have their class highlights hence the saying, "you cannot have it all"

"If you drive an SUV, don't expect it to drive as fast as a Ferrari. You get the utility tho. :)"

No matter how much we complain on the imbalance the community is referring to, there's not going be a fix since you can't fix something that is not broken. I believe it is meant to be that way. Not every class should be a faceroll warrior, some people just want to play tank, support, or whatever. Though I agree with bit with barb being OP/Easy, I have drawn a line between 'imbalanced' and 'different' concerning other classes.

As for the required gear to roll like the other class. Let's not blame it on the classes, it is that way because of the economy. No one would complain anymore if monks/barbs items are more expensive than the other classes' item. But what can I say, we all made it that way so....

Peace :)

TL;DR - "Apples and Oranges"

Edit: I'm not siding on a specific class all I'm saying is if you want something from the other class then we gotta give them something too. If you're a DH, who wants the killspeed of a monk, then would you give him your mobility and range? if you're a WD and wants the killspeed of a barb, then would you give him your summons and spirit walk? Just my .02 for the sake of being fair for all classes, but yeah barb is faceroll. LOL
Edited by Gakky#1186 on 4/8/2013 5:00 AM PDT
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Good points, however the "point" of the game is farming, and efficiency aka killing speed, is the best way to achieve this. If the game were harder and classes were balanced out due to deaths then this would not be as much of an issue.

On another Note, thanks Tianzi for the vid, long time fan of your posts in the DH forum, I always love hearing people's voices for the first time, never what you expect, and your's was so far from waht I was expecting I laughed.
Edited by Mifkin#6968 on 4/8/2013 4:56 AM PDT
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Had to paste my reply on our private d3 group concerning the same issue about classes. My share of point-of-view.

I agree barb is OP and easy, but as for the other classes I might have to point out that we should not forget the term "different". They're not all meant to kill as fast as the other, they tend to have all the difference in skills and game play. Nobody would want a DH who could tank and kills easily as monk or a barb.

My point is if y'all want all the other class to accomplish the same !@#$, then blizzard should've made just ONE class. Monk kills faster, yes but do they have the mobility and range the DH has in its advantage? Can a monk kite? No. Does the other classes have summons that would tank for them like WD? I could go on, but the bottom line is they all have their class highlights hence the saying, "you cannot have it all"

No matter how much we complain on the imbalance the community is referring to, there's not going be a fix since you can't fix something that is not broken. I believe it is meant to be that way. Not every class should be a faceroll warrior, some people just want to play tank, support, or whatever. Though I agree with bit with barb being OP/Easy, I have drawn a line between 'imbalanced' and 'different' concerning other classes.

As for the required gear to roll like the other class. Let's not blame it on the classes, it is that way because of the economy. No one would complain anymore if monks/barbs items are more expensive than the other classes' item. But what can I say, we all made it that way so....

Peace :)

TL;DR - "Apples and Oranges"

Edit: I'm not siding on a specific class all I'm saying is if you want something from the other class then we gotta give them something too. If you're a DH, who wants the killspeed of a monk, then would you give him your mobility and range? if you're a WD and wants the killspeed of a barb, then would you give him your summons and spirit walk? Just my .02 for the sake of being fair for all classes, but yeah barb is faceroll. LOL


monks and barbs are faster than DH's yet they have kill speed unmatched by the DH ranged class. What advantage does a dh have then? anything special with a DH? dps/mobility? Monk and Barb top that. So what do DH have that is special for that class? Shouldn't DH have high edps and mobility? These are the usual topic in the dh forum.

Like the thread topic, it's EDPS that's lacking with a DH.

I hope blizz shows a little love with the DH class next time around

Peace!
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More evidence that DH need some edps buff.

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/8568987779

Some monk trying to defend DH does not need buff ended up proving DH need buff desperately.


too bad the video has been removed. I wonder why.

wink
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04/08/2013 01:34 AMPosted by Aurei
this makes me so sad


T______T
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this is an arpg hack and slash loot hunt. CLASSES DO NOT NEED TO BE BALANCED. there is essentially ZERO competition/ladders/developed PVP. If a certain class performs better than another (due to multitudes of reasons), then play the OP class and move on. asking for homogenization is what DESTROYED blizzards ability to release quality content/IPS in the first place.
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As a monk player. which by itself is a class that has been pretty neglected... I'm just immensely sorry for the guys who put a lot of effort into their DHs to be left with such a bad class as they currently are. They desperately need buffs to bring them in line with monk/wiz/wd, let alone the god tier class that is the barbarian, hahaha.
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04/08/2013 05:26 AMPosted by Rooder
As a monk player. which by itself is a class that has been pretty neglected... I'm just immensely sorry for the guys who put a lot of effort into their DHs to be left with such a bad class as they currently are. They desperately need buffs to bring them in line with monk/wiz/wd, let alone the god tier class that is the barbarian, hahaha.


:)
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just watched the video..

of course the DH is gonna look bad. he's not optimized to deal full dps. you should've used Imminent Doom on your bola shot. and since youre comparing it with a class that uses overawe, replace the bat with MFD-Grim Reaper. That wouldve made a world of difference.
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04/08/2013 05:22 AMPosted by Technoviking
this is an arpg hack and slash loot hunt. CLASSES DO NOT NEED TO BE BALANCED. there is essentially ZERO competition/ladders/developed PVP. If a certain class performs better than another (due to multitudes of reasons), then play the OP class and move on. asking for homogenization is what DESTROYED blizzards ability to release quality content/IPS in the first place.


"homogenization" and "balance" are different. Homogenization is the simple way to balance things.

It should be that way:
Mele: Face tanking at 50% max DPS
Distance: Kiting half the time at 100% max DPS

Different gameplay and about the same efficiency.

What we have:
mele: Face tanking at 100% max DPS with very efficient DPS
Distance: Kiting at 100% max DPS with less efficient DPS

Classes have to be balanced if not perfectly balanced. Competition need perfect balance. But having a minimal balance is needed for diversity. Or like you said, play the OP class with the OP build and don't complain about diversity. I agree with you: "homogenization" is what has killed this game. Playing the same builds with the same gears. I don't want to add playing with the same class.
Edited by holce#2777 on 4/8/2013 5:56 AM PDT
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I am glad someone else thinks that the DH is getting gyped when it comes to
DPS, but seriously if your complaining it takes more than 22 seconds to kill and ELITE... there IS somthing wrong with YOU not the system. They are NOT meant to be cannon fodder you know.
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Ouch.
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+1

Where's the DH love blizz? x_x
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at least please make bola shot useful to kill goblins =.= . i can't stand it when i'm in the party,shoot an imminent doom bola shot right into his face and the exploding damage was negated. WTF Blizz?
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this is absolutely ridiculous. complaining about taking 22 seconds to kill an ELITE on MP8. get out of here.

ok yeah whatever its tripling your farming time. but honestly, you still need to shut your trap. i am SURE blizzard's idea of an ELITE pack isnt to kill it within 22 seconds anyway...

killing an elite pack on mp8 within 22 seconds is not an "issue," you elitist pig.


cleary this guy doesn't get it. This is on mp8.
on mp10 the monk would clear this in 22 seconds and the demonhunter would take a 1:06. He just did it on MP8 so he didnt have to upload a gig to youtube.
The monk also had 50k less in DPS..

dh need buffs.
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just watched the video..

of course the DH is gonna look bad. he's not optimized to deal full dps. you should've used Imminent Doom on your bola shot. and since youre comparing it with a class that uses overawe, replace the bat with MFD-Grim Reaper. That wouldve made a world of difference.
^ This. Overawe allows the Monk to deal 12% more damage so to account for this on the Demon Hunter, you take Marked for Death - Grim Reaper.

Personally I'd take MFD in place of Sentry in this case. In TianZi's video, you'll see he goes to Warriors Rest, where there's a lot of skeletons which reduces the effectiveness of Sentry greatly.

Sentry adds immense eDPS (like 50-70k dps per turret depending on your gear) however it is better used in standard farming scenarios where you're out there in the world and you're coming up against 3-4 elites. That's where it works it's magic the best.
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taken from here (there are other classes as well): http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/8480728506

Demon Hunter

Problem with this class? Low edps (not dps on paper, that's actually high) compared to other classes on high MP levels and effectiveness of Manticore build. Sure, you can try playing in a different way using Calamity with lower dps overall, but popularity of Manticore is overwhelming and beyond the question.

I'm absolutely against any nerfs - just make Dual Wielding for DH's a valid option. Change rolls on rare hand crossbows (anyone seen someone using a rare?), and change legendaries to the point, where you could at least try something different (mind this; we don't want to make Manticore obsolete).

For example, you could try to make this play style more attractive by adding few affixes to already existing legends and making Archery and Secondary Skills more desirable:

Danetta's Creed Set Bonus:

+130 Dexterity
Now Increases Damage Against Elites by 7%

add two more guaranteed affixes:
Reduces resource cost of Archery Skills by 25%
Increases Attack Speed of Secondary Skills by 12%

Danetta's Revenge
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/item/danettas-revenge

dps range 693.7–1202.5 instead of 693.7–1116.0

Danetta's Spite
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/item/danettas-spite

dps range 693.7–1202.5 instead of 693.7–1116.0

Natalya's Slayer
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/item/natalyas-slayer

dps range 612.0–1093.5 instead of 612.0–853.8
add 3 more guaranteed affixes:
Critical Hit Damage Increased by 66-100%
2.20-2.50% of Damage Dealt Is Converted to Life
Increases Attack Speed of Archery Skills by 12%

Also strong buff to unused skills and runes is mandatory - dh, class that was designed to be a heavy damage dealer ranged class that uses dark powers to avoid death, has a lowest effective dps of all the classes. I had top Manticore and happily switched back to my Monk with Echoing Fury and Wizz with Chantodo's Will.
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It's all relevant imo. melee will have certain strengths/weaknesses as well as ranged...

DH'S sacrifice some tDPS in exchange for extreme mobility, being ranged, perma invulnerability and more group utility

WD's sacrifice some tDPS because they have things like amazing resource passives, long CD group buffs, good mobility/invulnerability.

Wiz are one of the flagship classes (barb is other) that must remain OP for the game's allure. They shine in every aspect of the game. they do not suffer any tDPS losses and prove overwhelmingly op as melee or ranged dps.

Monks have great tDPS and group buffs. they are well balanced for survivability and dps. their passives suffer as a result.

Barbs have amazing tDPS, strong solo single target and aoe dps, some group utility and best passives in game. Easily the most return on your investment in d3. the #1 "flagship allure" class
Edited by Technoviking#1999 on 4/8/2013 7:24 AM PDT
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