Diablo® III

Demon Hunter eDPS (effective DPS) Issue

I said this ages ago. My wiz/barb/wd all have infinitely LESS paper dps but kill so much faster than my dh. And they last a hell of alot longer too. mp5+. I'm really not sure why DH's put up with this.
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Anecdotally, I recently abandoned my 200k dps DH that I had been playing since Day 1. Now playing a WD with ~110k dps and it kills twice as fast as my old DH.
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It's all relevant imo. melee will have certain strengths/weaknesses as well as ranged...
You say this but then go on to list that melee has no strengths and weaknesses.
DH'S sacrifice some tDPS in exchange for extreme mobility, being ranged, perma invulnerability and more group utility
That's not a good tradeoff at all. The idea to range is that you kill them before they get to you. Kill them from a distance. That's currently not true. All DH on high MP has to kill from close range.
Wiz are one of the flagship classes (barb is other) that must remain OP for the game's allure.
What does the game's allure have to do with anything? If anything, the DH must be OP for the game's alure because they are DEMON hunters. They are not hunting demons as well as the other guys, so why shouldn't they be OP for the game's allure?

Wizard's do a lot of tDPS however they have clear disadvantages in survivability and mobility department. Yes this can be made up for via build, etc but it'll never be as good as a Barb's or a Monk's.
Barbs have amazing tDPS, strong solo single target and aoe dps, some group utility and best passives in game. Easily the most return on your investment in d3.

They have no disadvantages at all. They have supreme survivability, great mobility, single target/aoe dps.
And they last a hell of alot longer too. mp5+.

My DH has 670 All Resist so I can survive MP8 pretty well. With Gloom I don't have to worry about dying at all.
Edited by Wukong#1593 on 4/8/2013 7:49 AM PDT
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First of all, I don't know a lot about WDs, and I don't know the full spectrum of abilities you have at your disposal.

This said, I don't think your test rightfully portrays the situation: you are using an AoE ability to kill a single target with your WD while you use a combination of Single Target/AoE abilities both with the monk and the barb, especially with the barb you are using his most powerful ST skill.

Try and kill that pack with a double tornado spec and you'll probably end up taking far more than 67 seconds.

Monk has quite the balance between ST and AoE, be it the usual Cyclone build or the latest Raining Bells builds, but try and kill that pack with a Tempest Rush build and it will take forever.
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bump for DH buff love on 1.0.9
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I think one can see why DHs are outperformed with just a glance. They have very low damage modifiers on skills compared to the other classes and this can cause them to be fairly slower in performance. This can also cause problems in Hatred management as well which some people have brought up recently I believe.
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+ 1 to a great post. It is quite entertaining seeing how people arguing otherwise...
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04/08/2013 08:15 AMPosted by Axel
I think one can see why DHs are outperformed with just a glance. They have very low damage modifiers on skills compared to the other classes and this can cause them to be fairly slower in performance. This can also cause problems in Hatred management as well which some people have brought up recently I believe.


THIS!
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+1
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Agreed, the DH is in a bad spot right now, as far as eDPS is concerned.
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04/08/2013 08:16 AMPosted by Killua
+ 1 to a great post. It is quite entertaining seeing how people arguing otherwise...
I think people are just scared that they'll nerf something.
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DH's used to be more powerful with uber trail of cinders and smoke screen and a few others back in the day.
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Posts: 38
My 35 mil CM Wiz is a lot more stable and farms a lot faster than my 225k dps 500k ehp DH...and I've decided to take a break from D3 until they fix PvE balance (probably won't happen in 1.0.8)..
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Since I only have a level 60 WD and DH... and because I havent played my WD since patch1.03... this was enlightening. I've heard and read ALOT about how bad DH's were terrible in comparison to the other classes but I never payed much attention to it since I enjoy my DH and have felt I was doing well with it. This video is a simple and believable comparison between the two classes. Thanks for sharing OP.. and thanks for making me sad.

=(
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while i agree with the message you are trying to put across there are few points that need to be taken into consideration:

- skorn with marq ruby means INSANE crits when they happen. and from what I saw, they DID happen. outcome could have been A BIT different if you had a string of non-crit bells

- burst damage was possible due to 250 spirit available at the start of the fight. in most cases this does not look that good (but it is possible when farming this area only)

- sentries in this spot.. not a great idea, trash mobs ate most of the damage - LFB might be a better choice. and sentries dont crit so their input is pretty minimal in this case esp that you get their full dps after 18 secs minimum.

- marked for death. overrawe is crazy *1.5 multiplier so no surprise that the damage done by WoL crits is so sick

- custom engineering. are you sure that you can take advantage of that? probably you can but i cant see your gear so im not sure. if not this is a wasted slot.

- gloom.. instead of +damage passive. change to MFD

- what +skills bonuses you had on your gear and were they aligned with skills you used?

entangling shot/shock collar + cull the weak instead of bola/custom engineering might have improved the time a bit, also change sentries to LFB

result will still disappoint but the difference will not be that great. part of low DH multiplier is that there are rarely more than 2 sources of damage going at the same time with DHs compared to like 4-5 in case of your monk

btw besides the obvious DH weakness the OP empowered wave is much to obvious. blizz has to nerf that to like 60 spirit instead of 40. this is crazy op in current state.. :/
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I agree barb is OP and easy, but as for the other classes I might have to point out that we should not forget the term "different". They're not all meant to kill as fast as the other, they tend to have all the difference in skills and game play. Nobody would want a DH who could tank and kills easily as monk or a barb.

My point is if y'all want all the other class to accomplish the same !@#$, then blizzard should've made just ONE class. Monk kills faster, yes but do they have the mobility and range the DH has in its advantage? Can a monk kite? No. Does the other classes have summons that would tank for them like WD? I could go on, but the bottom line is they all have their class highlights hence the saying, "you cannot have it all"

That's ridiculous, I do expect to kill somewhat as fast as the other classes, the disparity should not be this great, especially the class that is meant to be the dps class. How can a melee class that is traditionally meant to be the tanky class kill faster than a ranged class? As far as mobility goes, barbs and Monks are on par some might even argue better with Spritnt + WoTb and Tempest Rush.
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04/08/2013 05:22 AMPosted by Technoviking
this is an arpg hack and slash loot hunt. CLASSES DO NOT NEED TO BE BALANCED.

Just because you say it does not make it true, it's an opinion and that's all there is to it.
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Monk kills faster, yes but do they have the mobility and range the DH has in its advantage? Can a monk kite? No. Does the other classes have summons that would tank for them like WD? I could go on, but the bottom line is they all have their class highlights hence the saying, "you cannot have it all"
Just my .02 for the sake of being fair for all classes, but yeah barb is faceroll. LOL


You don't need mobility and range, when you kill something within 5 seconds.
You don't need pets to tank for you, when you kill something within 5 seconds.
The end.

ps: you thinking DH uses range at higher mp = LOL
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just watched the video..

of course the DH is gonna look bad. he's not optimized to deal full dps. you should've used Imminent Doom on your bola shot. and since youre comparing it with a class that uses overawe, replace the bat with MFD-Grim Reaper. That wouldve made a world of difference.
^ This. Overawe allows the Monk to deal 12% more damage so to account for this on the Demon Hunter, you take Marked for Death - Grim Reaper.

Personally I'd take MFD in place of Sentry in this case. In TianZi's video, you'll see he goes to Warriors Rest, where there's a lot of skeletons which reduces the effectiveness of Sentry greatly.

Sentry adds immense eDPS (like 50-70k dps per turret depending on your gear) however it is better used in standard farming scenarios where you're out there in the world and you're coming up against 3-4 elites. That's where it works it's magic the best.

You think you could do it as fast as the Monk with those skills? Go ahead try, and tell us the results.
Edited by BurningJC007#1355 on 4/8/2013 9:03 AM PDT
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04/08/2013 08:36 AMPosted by Kyrius
My 35 mil CM Wiz is a lot more stable and farms a lot faster than my 225k dps 500k ehp DH...and I've decided to take a break from D3 until they fix PvE balance (probably won't happen in 1.0.8)..
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